MasterSafara
Super Freak
Bruce is "starting over" with Selina Kyle together. However, I like to believe he still watches and waits. "Should the forces of evil rise again... Call me."
"Question... How do we call him?"
"HE GAVE US THE SIGNAL!"
The Dark Knight Rises *SPOILERS*
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Bruce is "starting over" with Selina Kyle together. However, I like to believe he still watches and waits. "Should the forces of evil rise again... Call me."
"Question... How do we call him?"
"HE GAVE US THE SIGNAL!"
Started this as a new thread but it got shut down due to spoilers. I am sorry about that as I did not even think about the spoilers. Sorry to any who had not seen the film. I you have not seen it what are you waiting for.
Anyways these were just some of my thought of the series and what sticks in my craw.
With some of the Back and forth going on in the Spoilers TDKR thread. It got me to thinking about the series and some problems I had with it.
First let me start off with the fact that I love the series and think it’s one of the best trilogy’s out there. I know this is Nolan’s Batman Universe but that does not mean it is not without some small problems.
These are just some issues I have always had and thought I would share and see if anyone else has the same issues.
1. Perhaps my biggest complaint is the Batman time line. From BB to TDK, how much time has passed?? A year?? Maybe a year and a half, tops? He then goes into hiding for eight years. Comes out of retirement and then is Batman again for a total of two or three days. Meaning he was Batman for One year six months and 3 days. Not long enough IMO to become the legend.
2. He allows Ra's al Ghul to die. IMO it’s the same as killing him and Batman does not kill. If Batman had no choice, then yes, it’s fine that he dies. But Bats says he won’t kill him but that does not mean he has to save him. If you, as a hero, can save someone and don’t act, knowing that the lack of action will allow him to die then what is the difference. Yes there is one. But IMO not for the Batman. I mean why not just let the Joker fall in the second film. He did not have to save him and apparently could walk away with a clear mind. I have no problem with Ra’s dieing. I just don’t think Batman would allow it if he could stop it.
3. He changes Rachel’s. I’m Sorry but Katie was fine in the first film and much much easier on the eyes. Maggie Gyllenhaal Giant Jowls were distracting through many of her scenes. (Found out this was because of Katie and not the film makers so I guess I can't blame them that just should have got someone not so tired looking and Jowly.)4. Two Face Dies. Look I know the whole “batman takes the fall” would have not been the same. But Two Face is a major villain. And again Batman just seems to let him die. If he can save Rachel from falling 30 stories up I think he could have saved Dent from one story. Just puts limits on the Batman’s ability and calls in to question his belief system. I know they could have come up with another idea to let Bat’s take the fall and allow Harvey to be put away behind lock and key with nobody believing the rants of a madman. They could have said Batman tried to kill Dent or something. Oh well.
5. Bane gets killed in an un eventful way. What the hell. I wanted/needed to see batman just kick this guys butt and rip that mask off and allow the police to restrain him. Why do villains in the films have to die but in the comics they can be allowed to live? Also he gets blasted by Catwoman and that’s it?? Just sort of a let down for a powerful villain.
6. No mention of the Joker. This is talked about at length in the other thread. Here are my thoughts that I posted in that thread.
Joker should not have been ignored. He should have been mentioned or recast. The Joker was here long before Heath and will be here long after. The character is bigger then any one actor. I am not saying base the whole film on him or give him a huge role but make some sort of acknowledgement.
I don't mind that he had no major role. As the Batman files book I have states (not a direct quote) "There is no reason to Joker's madness. One day he may let you live because he likes your shoes. The next day he might kill you because he likes your shoes"
In my mind Joker could have escaped but felt no need to act since Bane told the truth of Dent and the city was in chaos. Joker is a loner/sometimes leader and never a follower. But there needed to be some sort of mention. SOMETHING!! Because, yes it sort of wipes a big part of TDK away. Like most of it never happened. Even if they gave us a flashback of him in the cell when Rachel died.
8. Much to long of a wait between Batman being in the pit and finally getting to Gothem. Would have been different if Bane was doing some awesome evil stuff to help the time go by but instead it was rather boring and there was never a feeling of fear for the city. It is the main reason I think the film will suffer with repeated viewing.
9. Batman is gone. Who is going to train Robin???? Small complaint here as I can use my imagination to tell a story of Bats making an appearance here and there to help the new Robin/Nightwing/Batman/whatever.
Anyways those are my issues. With the exception of the lack of mention of Joker in TDKR which just makes him seem insignificant, these issues don’t really hurt the films. But they always bug me a bit.
What say you Batfriends.
Anyways these were just some of my thought of the series and what sticks in my craw.
With some of the Back and forth going on in the Spoilers TDKR thread. It got me to thinking about the series and some problems I had with it.
First let me start off with the fact that I love the series and think it’s one of the best trilogy’s out there. I know this is Nolan’s Batman Universe but that does not mean it is not without some small problems.
These are just some issues I have always had and thought I would share and see if anyone else has the same issues.
1. Perhaps my biggest complaint is the Batman time line. From BB to TDK, how much time has passed?? A year?? Maybe a year and a half, tops? He then goes into hiding for eight years. Comes out of retirement and then is Batman again for a total of two or three days. Meaning he was Batman for One year six months and 3 days. Not long enough IMO to become the legend.
2. He allows Ra's al Ghul to die. IMO it’s the same as killing him and Batman does not kill. If Batman had no choice, then yes, it’s fine that he dies. But Bats says he won’t kill him but that does not mean he has to save him. If you, as a hero, can save someone and don’t act, knowing that the lack of action will allow him to die then what is the difference. Yes there is one. But IMO not for the Batman. I mean why not just let the Joker fall in the second film. He did not have to save him and apparently could walk away with a clear mind. I have no problem with Ra’s dieing. I just don’t think Batman would allow it if he could stop it.
3. He changes Rachel’s. I’m Sorry but Katie was fine in the first film and much much easier on the eyes. Maggie Gyllenhaal Giant Jowls were distracting through many of her scenes. (Found out this was because of Katie and not the film makers so I guess I can't blame them that just should have got someone not so tired looking and Jowly.)4. Two Face Dies. Look I know the whole “batman takes the fall” would have not been the same. But Two Face is a major villain. And again Batman just seems to let him die. If he can save Rachel from falling 30 stories up I think he could have saved Dent from one story. Just puts limits on the Batman’s ability and calls in to question his belief system. I know they could have come up with another idea to let Bat’s take the fall and allow Harvey to be put away behind lock and key with nobody believing the rants of a madman. They could have said Batman tried to kill Dent or something. Oh well.
5. Bane gets killed in an un eventful way. What the hell. I wanted/needed to see batman just kick this guys butt and rip that mask off and allow the police to restrain him. Why do villains in the films have to die but in the comics they can be allowed to live? Also he gets blasted by Catwoman and that’s it?? Just sort of a let down for a powerful villain.
6. No mention of the Joker. This is talked about at length in the other thread. Here are my thoughts that I posted in that thread.
Joker should not have been ignored. He should have been mentioned or recast. The Joker was here long before Heath and will be here long after. The character is bigger then any one actor. I am not saying base the whole film on him or give him a huge role but make some sort of acknowledgement.
I don't mind that he had no major role. As the Batman files book I have states (not a direct quote) "There is no reason to Joker's madness. One day he may let you live because he likes your shoes. The next day he might kill you because he likes your shoes"
In my mind Joker could have escaped but felt no need to act since Bane told the truth of Dent and the city was in chaos. Joker is a loner/sometimes leader and never a follower. But there needed to be some sort of mention. SOMETHING!! Because, yes it sort of wipes a big part of TDK away. Like most of it never happened. Even if they gave us a flashback of him in the cell when Rachel died.
8. Much to long of a wait between Batman being in the pit and finally getting to Gothem. Would have been different if Bane was doing some awesome evil stuff to help the time go by but instead it was rather boring and there was never a feeling of fear for the city. It is the main reason I think the film will suffer with repeated viewing.
9. Batman is gone. Who is going to train Robin???? Small complaint here as I can use my imagination to tell a story of Bats making an appearance here and there to help the new Robin/Nightwing/Batman/whatever.
Anyways those are my issues. With the exception of the lack of mention of Joker in TDKR which just makes him seem insignificant, these issues don’t really hurt the films. But they always bug me a bit.
What say you Batfriends.
Frank
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MasterSafara
Super Freak
Back to the Joker in The Dark Knight I could be mistaken because I haven't seen it again in a while but if I'm not and my memory serves me didn't the Joker slip and fall from Batman's grip to his death at the end?
Nope that would be incorrect. It was Harvey Dent you're thinking of.
MasterSafara
Super Freak
Jaws you need to pay attention brother. I stopped reading after your 1. first point. See The Dark Knight Rises again. There's nothing wrong with the timeline. You have your facts wrong.
intothevoid
Batmod
Yupp
Have you seen this?
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3lKI83zN2k[/ame]
Rumour has it Nolan saw this and found it the most impressive of the fan trailers
Also, there is this:
https://www.cracked.com/blog/advanced-batman-theory-why-nolan-will-kill-bruce-wayne/
It was written back in Nov, the author turns out to be wrong, but I still think the Batman trilogy sort of followed the 3 acts of the Prestige as the author theorizes.
His other theory is that Nolan is also making a parallel trilogy of films alongside the Batman trilogy
1. The Prestige - this is the Pledge
2. Inception - The Turn
3. ???? - The Prestige.
Interesting theory
I can't wait to find out what Nolan's making next.
Sachiel
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Indeed. It felt too.. disembodied. You could tell it was dubbed. And the delivery was horrible. They even cut down the dialogue at one part. It was like Nolan trolled both the complainers and the people who were fine with it before.
The original audio was much better. I enjoyed his delivery of the lines and they didn't sound overly goofy.
MasterSafara
Super Freak
When was the last time you saw it? Doesn't Joker fall to his death as well before Dent? In the skyscraper scene? When Joker is hanging upside down...
DiFabio
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My biggest gripe is the editing and pacing of the film. It's down right jarring. The movie gets better with each viewing but how poorly it was put together is more evident each time.
Best example is at the hospital after Wayne talks with his doctor about his health. After talking with him he decides to go out of a window to talk to Gordon.
The next shot is immediately at Gordon's bed side. This should be an intimate moment. The character's are now meeting again for the first time since the last film. Where is Gordon's reaction of this guy coming through the window? What about Wayne's reaction upon seeing his friend bed ridden and hurt? These guys go way back, the scene should be slower and emotional. Hell, even the teaser feels like there's more at stake here than the actual film does.
It's frustrating that it just cuts immediately to Wayne holding his hand while they're in mid-discussion.
Can I fill in the blanks myself? Certainly. But it'd be nice if there were parts that gave the audience time to breath and take things in. There's absolutely none of that.
TDKR makes the Dark Knight's third act look tame in comparison. It's like Nolan, his brother and Goyer throw as many themes, story elements and ideas onto the wall and hoped they stick. I can keep up with it and thankfully, Nolan's script repeats and hits things on the head multiple times throughout the discussion but c'mon, this isn't a race.
There are some great moments and ideas that they work with in this one but it's frustrating when they're quickly abandoned or ignored for a new plot idea later on. That's how I'd describe most of the film, frustrating.
Best example is at the hospital after Wayne talks with his doctor about his health. After talking with him he decides to go out of a window to talk to Gordon.
The next shot is immediately at Gordon's bed side. This should be an intimate moment. The character's are now meeting again for the first time since the last film. Where is Gordon's reaction of this guy coming through the window? What about Wayne's reaction upon seeing his friend bed ridden and hurt? These guys go way back, the scene should be slower and emotional. Hell, even the teaser feels like there's more at stake here than the actual film does.
It's frustrating that it just cuts immediately to Wayne holding his hand while they're in mid-discussion.
Can I fill in the blanks myself? Certainly. But it'd be nice if there were parts that gave the audience time to breath and take things in. There's absolutely none of that.
TDKR makes the Dark Knight's third act look tame in comparison. It's like Nolan, his brother and Goyer throw as many themes, story elements and ideas onto the wall and hoped they stick. I can keep up with it and thankfully, Nolan's script repeats and hits things on the head multiple times throughout the discussion but c'mon, this isn't a race.
There are some great moments and ideas that they work with in this one but it's frustrating when they're quickly abandoned or ignored for a new plot idea later on. That's how I'd describe most of the film, frustrating.
ironwez20
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Confirmed by Nolan himself
. Baby mama accent
. Hillbilly
. Stereotypical Asian
. Micheal Jackson
. Fred Sanford
. Preppy schoolgirl
.goerge bush
And Arnold schzsnager
All in Banes voice changer. He could of changed his voice plenty of times.
intothevoid
Batmod
No. He doesn't.
Irvy
Super Freak
Just like you had to pay attention because you were adamant that Bruce died at the end? Give the guy a break man.
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Yeah, I saw that. But I meant this ending is all 3 acts.
He takes an ordinary man, and makes him into a extraordinary hero.
He takes Batman, and kills him.
And then brings him back,
He takes an ordinary man, and makes him into a extraordinary hero.
He takes Batman, and kills him.
And then brings him back,
MasterSafara
Super Freak
Remind me what happens
intothevoid
Batmod
This I agree with 100%
It's my only major issue with the film. The editing is below his usual standard. I'm certain this has to do with them having to edit the film down to 2 hrs 45mins so it could be shown at IMAX without an intermission.
The film needed another 15 mins I think to make everything flow better, give some scenes additional space that they needed.
That being said, the final act made all my editing problems with the earlier parts disappear. But keen to see how that impression develops upon further viewings.
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He throws him off the building, and then catches him.
Mister Ski
Super Freak
Good post Jaws. You bring up a lot of good points. Bruce Wayne in the pit really hurt the pacing of the film for me. Did we really need to see him try three times before he got out? Also, Batman has always been an intelligent guy, but for some reason he couldn't figure out that you had to take the rope harness off BEFORE you made the jump? Instead he decide not to use it at all for his successful escape.
How exactly did he get back into Gotham after escaping the pit? No one was getting in or out of Gotham, but he manages to waltz right in - finely dressed I might add. He knows that there is a bomb that is going to go off in Gotham but he doesn't know when so he might as well take the time to look good. Not to mention the fact that he was broke.
I would have liked to see the version of the movie where Bruce Wayne gets back into Gotham and goes to his house to get all dressed up for his big reveal to Catwoman, only to see the bomb go off outside his window in Wayne Manor. His last thought, "Oops, guess I should have checked to see how much time I had left before the bomb was supposed to go off." Flaming fireball blows in window. End scene. Roll credits.
How exactly did he get back into Gotham after escaping the pit? No one was getting in or out of Gotham, but he manages to waltz right in - finely dressed I might add. He knows that there is a bomb that is going to go off in Gotham but he doesn't know when so he might as well take the time to look good. Not to mention the fact that he was broke.
I would have liked to see the version of the movie where Bruce Wayne gets back into Gotham and goes to his house to get all dressed up for his big reveal to Catwoman, only to see the bomb go off outside his window in Wayne Manor. His last thought, "Oops, guess I should have checked to see how much time I had left before the bomb was supposed to go off." Flaming fireball blows in window. End scene. Roll credits.
MasterSafara
Super Freak
I caught a lot of heat for it... I'm just saying his problems with the film can be explained. I admitted I need to see it again not that I didn't think I needed to or wanted to for that matter.
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