Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2)

[ajp4mgs]

"If you strike me down you're going to feel really stupid because I'm not here but actually you will still accomplish your goal but it's confusing where that leaves you because your motivations have all been removed."

screenwriting = write the most contrarian thing for the moment, leave the rest for the next guy

Wait, "still accomplish your goal"? Wasn't Kylo's goal to get into the Rebel base and wipe out the Resistance? Didn't Luke wait until Rey got to the rocks to free the Resistance members before he pulled a Kenobi and gave Kylo the free swing? I don't understand your objection.

 

[Khev]

And Lucas chose to create Jar-Jar. It happens.

Yes, of course. I wasn't giving Lucas a pass for the prequels, merely shaking my head at what RJ decided to do with Rose. Though post-Jar Jar you'd think any new director would want to look at any new character from every conceivable angle to make sure that they *aren't* the next Jar Jar which I doubt RJ did. I still think she's harmless enough in the grand scheme of things (and doesn't prevent TLJ from being entertaining) but such a strange character to devote so much screen time to. I wonder what Canto Bight would have been like if it was Finn and Poe instead of Rose. Would Poe have been the one who wanted to "put his fist through this entire beautiful, terrible town" (or whatever it was.)

 

[ajp4mgs]

Yes, of course. I wasn't giving Lucas a pass for the prequels, merely shaking my head at what RJ decided to do with Rose. Though post-Jar Jar you'd think any new director would want to look at any new character from every conceivable angle to make sure that they *aren't* the next Jar Jar which I doubt RJ did. I still think she's harmless enough in the grand scheme of things (and doesn't prevent TLJ from being entertaining) but such a strange character to devote so much screen time to. I wonder what Canto Bight would have been like if it was Finn and Poe instead of Rose. Would Poe have been the one who wanted to "put his fist through this entire beautiful, terrible town" (or whatever it was.)

No, Poe would have acted completely differently. Because he's a different personality with different life experience. I didn't need a Rose in Star Wars either; but she's there to bring that sort of personality, with that set of values, and that life experience into the SW landscape. You and Junkion have nailed it on the head about Rose representing Rian Johnson's values (and maybe even personality). The truth is that there really are people like that in this world, so it's not too far fetched to believe that they'd exist in the SW galaxy too. Ultimately, she's harmless. I wish she wasn't in the movie at all - I don't relate to her worldview at all either - but I'm not going to be bothered by an innocuous character who's just there to represent people who see things differently than I do, but actually exist. The Rose character is pretty benign. The real world is full of people like her.

 

[Khev]

I wonder if Abrams requested that RJ change the end of TLJ the way RJ had Abrams change the end of TFA (by replacing BB-8 with R2 on the Falcon at the end.)

"Yeah, Rian, about Rose...I'm gonna need you to coma her ass out at the end. You can save her for your standalone 'CG animal rights' trilogy," lol.

 

[Superman-Prime]

The whole problem with the ST is they are using beloved characters to bring in old fans and help launch new characters in hopes to build the new fan base. I don’t get how people don’t understand if you grew up with the OT it might bother you to have to watch beloved characters get reinterpreted and killed off. It would of been better to never bring them in at all. Thanks for throwing HAN down a bottomless pit who was murdered by his own son...thanks for making Jedi Master Luke go from a guy who can’t wait to get into the fight to someone who doesn’t want to get involved. Who we then get to watch have a heart attack on a rock because he used the force too much. That’s exactly how I imagined what would happen to them after ROTJ. Wait til the kill Lando off by blowing up the Falcon.

They should of wrote a complete story with all new characters and not just steal from the past. JJ and RJ just kicked the can down the road with no real endpoint in sight. How you don’t have the full story figured out going into the making of a trilogy is crazy. They are writing and making up crap up as they go along. That’s why it’s such a mess.

I like Rey and Kylo and they are only thing that is interesting but TFA and TLJ are a mess. AOTC and ROTS are easier a better story even with all the bad dialogue and some of the wooden acting.


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[Superman-Prime]

I pulling for Kylo to wipe out Rey and resistance and rule the galaxy. Finish what is grandfather started. Make this his story. The reverse Luke story. This is his rise to being an Emperor.


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[ajp4mgs]

I like Rey and Kylo and they are only thing that is interesting but TFA and TLJ are a mess. AOTC and ROTS are easier a better story even with all the bad dialogue and some of the wooden acting.

AOTC and ROTS? Easier a better story?

A 20-year-old Anakin shows up as a Jedi, desperately in love with someone he last saw when he was 9 or 10 years old. So in love with this person he only knew when he was a kid, and hadn't seen since, that he ignores 10 years of Jedi teaching about following through on his feelings for her. He ends up so in love (after the most awkward and ridiculous courting EVER) that he's willing to turn to the Dark Side to keep her from dying. And so he turns (as Sidious/Palpatine had planned - and maybe even orchestrated all along with Anakin being born via midichlorian manipulation by either Plagueis or Sidious???). And then Anakin immediately chokes her while she's pregnant because . . . he apparently thought his master had been putting the moves on her . . . or something. She dies. He keeps on being a Sith doing his new master's bidding even though his love can no longer be protected by his Dark Side powers (the whole reason he turned in the first place).

That story? That's the better one?

I pulling for Kylo to wipe out Rey and resistance and rule the galaxy. Finish what is grandfather started. Make this his story. The reverse Luke story. This is his rise to being an Emperor.

This would be so ballsy that I'd have no choice but to applaud it. It won't happen, but part of me would be thrilled if it did. It would definitely be bold.

 

[Superman-Prime]

AOTC and ROTS? Easier a better story?

A 20-year-old Anakin shows up as a Jedi, desperately in love with someone he last saw when he was 9 or 10 years old. So in love with this person he only knew when he was a kid, and hadn't seen since, that he ignores 10 years of Jedi teaching about following through on his feelings for her. He ends up so in love (after the most awkward and ridiculous courting EVER) that he's willing to turn to the Dark Side to keep her from dying. And so he turns (as Sidious/Palpatine had planned - and maybe even orchestrated all along with Anakin being born via midichlorian manipulation by either Plagueis or Sidious???). And then Anakin immediately chokes her while she's pregnant because . . . he apparently thought his master had been putting the moves on her . . . or something. She dies. He keeps on being a Sith doing his new master's bidding even though his love can no longer be protected by his Dark Side powers (the whole reason he turned in the first place).

That story? That's the better one?

.

When you tell it that way it does seem pretty bad...lol....there was a good story of how the Jedi appeared corrupted in Anakin’s view. They were asking him to do things he thought was wrong for a Jedi to do so they seemed like hypocrites. He also wanted everything now and fast. Instant gratification. He never really did buy into the Jedi way fully. He had a lot of selfishness and pride still in him. The Emperor gained Anakin’s trust as a boy and played into his ego. The Jedi were more concerned with his maturity...heart....and judgement...where the emperor praised his powers. Things that came easy to Anakin.

Emperor also used his fear of losing his wife like he did his mother . I like the idea of Anakin living a lie and attaching himself to Padme when he was not suppose to. It did end up causing the destruction of him and her. The courtship with Padme was rushed and cringe worthy. I could see how a small boy could be infatuated with an older girl and somehow that becomes his ideal woman in his mind were he really knows nothing about her. It would be like if when I grew up I finally had a chance to date Daisy Duke...she was a poster on my wall but that was the perfect woman ideally in my head as a kid.

His turn to dark side was way to jarring too but it was emotional to see him and Obi-wan fight it out. The idea of building a clone army right under the Jedi’s noses was cool. The amount of deception and patience it took to move all the chess pieces to extinguish the Jedi was a good idea.

I don’t think he choked Padme because he thought Obi-Wan put a move on her. He choked her because he thought she had turned on him like the Jedi and he was enraged. He said you will not take her from me. He wanted to possess her..or was all about him not losing what he had...I think when she said she was leaving he beat her like a overbearing dude would. Your with me or no one. He just wasn’t wearing his wife beater...lol

I think he stayed with Emperor cause he really thought he was keeping the peace and bringing order to the galaxy. He already said in AOTC that he believed more in a dictatorship like government then a democracy. People should be made to agree. I thought that was actually a good hint into his mind set. I liked it...a lot of cringe worth lines and something’s developed way to fast. But there was a point A to B and the journey was fun.



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[loki2371]

AOTC and ROTS? Easier a better story?

A 20-year-old Anakin shows up as a Jedi, desperately in love with someone he last saw when he was 9 or 10 years old. So in love with this person he only knew when he was a kid, and hadn't seen since, that he ignores 10 years of Jedi teaching about following through on his feelings for her. He ends up so in love (after the most awkward and ridiculous courting EVER) that he's willing to turn to the Dark Side to keep her from dying. And so he turns (as Sidious/Palpatine had planned - and maybe even orchestrated all along with Anakin being born via midichlorian manipulation by either Plagueis or Sidious???)..

Originally in TPM in the scene with Anakin meeting Padme, Anakin was to say "I'm gonna marry you". Signifying his connection to the force and seeing the future. And why he was so drawn to her. That line of dialogue was cut and changed to the cringe worthy "Are you an angel?". I guess Lucas decided not to give anything away so soon as we knew Anakin would become Vader and have kids, but I don't believe we knew yet who the mother was.

I'm just the messenger.

 

[Khev]

Marty McFly had more sparks with his mother than Anakin Skywalker did with his wife.

Also it just occurred to me that Mark Hamill has gone out of his way to defend Jake Lloyd's performance in TPM while simultaneously calling his TLJ character "Jake" Skywalker since apparently he thinks that Jake is the term you use to describe a loser non-canon version of a character, lol.

 

[ajp4mgs]

Emperor also used his fear of losing his wife like he did his mother . I like the idea of Anakin living a lie and attaching himself to Padme when he was not suppose to. It did end up causing the destruction of him and her. The courtship with Padme was rushed and cringe worthy. I could see how a small boy could be infatuated with an older girl and somehow that becomes his ideal woman in his mind were he really knows nothing about her. It would be like if when I grew up I finally had a chance to date Daisy Duke...she was a poster on my wall but that was the perfect woman ideally in my head as a kid.

We may disagree about the prequels. We may disagree about the sequels. But as kids, we at least had Daisy Duke for common ground. Here's to Daisy:

 

[Superman-Prime]

We may disagree about the prequels. We may disagree about the sequels. But as kids, we at least had Daisy Duke for common ground. Here's to Daisy:

True true !!

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[Superman-Prime]

Marty McFly had more sparks with his mother than Anakin Skywalker did with his wife.

Also it just occurred to me that Mark Hamill has gone out of his way to defend Jake Lloyd's performance in TPM while simultaneously calling his TLJ character "Jake" Skywalker since apparently he thinks that Jake is the term you use to describe a loser non-canon version of a character, lol.

I can’t defend TPM....I just pretend prequels we’re two movies...it’s better that way.


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[Bo Shrek]

True true !!

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Don't know what you guys are talking about, but I heard Daisy Duke and came running!! Loved her back in tha days!!

 

[Superman-Prime]

Good Video on possible Disney scrambling on what to do next...

https://youtu.be/i9r8r_-vOVU


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[Python]

I can’t defend TPM....I just pretend prequels we’re two movies...it’s better that way.

Oh I can, I think it can be argued that TPM is better than the other two in many ways. Although I like all of the prequels personally. But that's a different topic so I'll spare you


It does make me wonder how some people can hate the prequels so much, but actually enjoy TLJ? If anything, you'd think TLJ would make people appreciate the prequels really wern't that bad.

 

[loki2371]

It does make me wonder how some people can hate the prequels so much, but actually enjoy TLJ? If anything, you'd think TLJ would make people appreciate the prequels really wern't that bad.

I wholeheartedly agree.....

While the prequels may have their moments, I always enjoyed them. They never bothered me like TLJ. I might have walked out of the theater a little bemused, but not actually angry at what I just saw. And as much as those that don't like the stories, the PT gave us some of the most memorable and coolest characters and ships from the entire franchise. There is not even ONE thing from the ST that I feel I need in my Star Wars collection..... Nothing, zip, nada... Everything in those movies so far has been forgettable to me.

 

[Superman-Prime]

Marty McFly had more sparks with his mother than Anakin Skywalker did with his wife
.

I bought him being crazy over her but yeah never really was sold on her being deeply in love with him. But she put that boom boom boom on him and he was hooked. Lol

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[ajp4mgs]

Oh I can, I think it can be argued that TPM is better than the other two in many ways. Although I like all of the prequels personally. But that's a different topic so I'll spare you


It does make me wonder how some people can hate the prequels so much, but actually enjoy TLJ? If anything, you'd think TLJ would make people appreciate the prequels really wern't that bad.

I can give you my reasoning as someone who hates the prequels, but enjoys TLJ.

I don't want to be taken out of a movie by acting that reminds me of an 8th-grade play. I don't want to sit in a theater listening to dialogue that makes me cringe to the point where I feel embarrassed by it. I don't want to watch a floppy-eared CGI character step in dung, get farted on, bumble his way to taking down droid soldiers, and be told that I'm supposed to find that amusing rather than insulting. I prefer character motivation that is deeper and more nuanced than what would be written in a high school drama class. I don't want to be told that the origin for a badass like Darth Vader is that of a petulant, lovesick whiner with poorly-developed motivations. And I could go on and on for pages and pages.

Conversely, TLJ gives me what I do want. Competent, and even outstanding, acting. Character interactions that actually benefit from on-screen chemistry. Fantastic cinematography and overall visuals. Convincing special effects. Dialogue that actual people might speak. Nuanced and layered character motivation that weaves into more mature themes for what has become a more mature audience (hopefully). A cinematic experience with twists and turns to keep me guessing instead of constantly just rolling my eyes. And I could go on and on for pages and pages.

 

[Prime Clone]

I don't want to sit in a theater listening to dialogue that makes me cringe to the point where I feel embarrassed by it.

I presume you're referring mainly to the Anakin-Padme courtship sequence? Yes it was cringeworthy by modern "hip lingo" standards, but it was also timeless by Shakespearean opera standards, and that was what Lucas was going for.

I agree the ST is overall better acted and directed, but some of the "humor" makes me cringe, and some of the dialogue is *too* specific to our time and will quickly become anachronistic.

The ST is going for an OT vibe, and that's OK because that's what most people probably want. But the PT was going for a regal, political, diplomatic vibe because that was where the galaxy was at the time, and it also helped differentiate it as a mythical era before the OT.