Star Wars PT, CW and OT

[Beren]

i can defend the lines ""Hold me like you did on Naboo when all we had was our love?" and ""Anakin... you're breaking my heart!"
i think a lot of people missed the point... complaints of the love between Anakin and Padme not feeling real... that IS the point... it wasn't love but insecurity... the "romantic talk" had to feel awkward...it wasn't genuine... it was more about possession than love... it was an attempt at holding on to something that wasn't even there in the first place!

That is an interesting theory. I would think that Lucas would disagree with you there. Yes, Anakin couldn't let go and his insecurity and possessive love led to his downfall but I think Lucas sees them as being in love and not 'not really'.

Who wants to see two people not really loving each other but believing they are? And going through all that they did and they don't "really" love each other, they're just two lonely people with nothing in common. Come on. You are giving Lucas WAY too much credit. They DON'T have much in common, and the actors were lacking chemistry, pure and simple. And their scenes together did nothing to convince the audience to believe that this was a love "that moved the universe". Portman cying and saying "you're breaking my heart", that alone is a brutal line for any actor to deliver and she didn't convince me. This is Lucas idea of love in a kitshy serial movie from the 1930s, or so it seems.

Speaking of lines, I only noticed in my recent viewing that Anakin's "This is where the fun begins" in III at the battle over Coruscant was first said by Solo in Ep IV when they leave Tatooine. I always thought it was a weak line by Hayden (the writer's fault for writing the line, I just find it really weak). And then I perked up and actually skipped back when I noticed Harrison Ford saying the line. Huge difference. Ford knew that a lot of the dialogue was inane and he would throw away the lines, mutter them under his breath unlike the PT actors who treated Lucas' weak dialogue like gold.

 

[Beren]

I think the key difference between the trilogies is not any difference in Lucas (especially because he didn't fully direct episode 5 & 6 which could have been much different if he did), but I think the reason for differences is that with the Original Trilogy, Star Wars quickly became popular, but for the film makers and actors and everyone, it was about braving a new frontier in film making and doing something unique and had a much different mental approach when being made. By the time the PT was made, and many of the actors said so in interviews, there was a mindset of, "THIS IS STAR WARS!" it was no longer special, but rather it was being a part of a phenomena and it was George's story and they all approached it like they were strangers with no rights to interfere with how things got done so like was said earlier, there was probably a lot of "sure George" moments with Hayden and Natalie and even Ewan where with the OT, George didn't necessarily know what he was doing so he at times relied on Harrison and Mark to help him along the way as he grew as a film maker.

That is an excellent point and the PT suffered for it. Just look at all the behind the scenes stuff on the PT DVDs. His entire staff seems like an endless parade of yes-people. Laughing at his every joke. Ugghh. I'm not a Lucas-hater, really, but know your strengths and know your weaknesses. Empire of Dreams, the 2.5 hr documentary that comes with the 2004 SW OT edition, was very interesting in respect to Spielberg, Peter Jackson, Harrison Ford, Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher commenting on Lucas. When it came to commenting on him as a director, they would basically say nothing or hint at some criticism (well not Jackson, but the others surely did).

 

[Beren]

A good director can work around bad dialogue.

Yes. By REWRITING it.

 

[Beren]

IMHO, EPIV, V, VI ROTFLMAO, LOL! OT, PT, ESB, ROTJ #1, IIDSSMS! BTW, FTW. LOL!

I have no idea what I'm saying. I just thought it was funny to read all those initials! LOL!

Eric

 

[Wor-Gar]

His entire staff seems like an endless parade of yes-people.

"Empire of Dreams" indeed.

 

[gdb]

Ever see the remakes of Psycho or Sabrina?? Yeah, they totally OWNED the original movies... :emperor

Beren

You can't seriously be comparing the Star Wars Saga with either Psycho or Sabrina. Niether Psycho nor Sabrina are stories worth retelling.

And Psycho's problem was it wasn't retold, it was shot for shot recreated. The original Psycho is a perfect example of a movie being a product of its time. It's way too slow and exposition rich for modern audiences and the violence is completely out of fashion as is the structure. At its time it was thrilling and chilling, yet today it is simply tame and boring.

Which by the way is how many movie goers are going to think of the Star Wars Saga in years to come (in fact many younger audience members already do) -- tame and boring.

Not for any inherent flaws, but merely due to the fact that fashions change and audiences today are not dazzled by puppets and blue screen models and slower paced exposition scenes as they once were. If they gave Citizen Kane a wide release theatrically, it would not make back the money they would spend on marketing it. :chew :emperor

 

[Darth Caedus]

Which by the way is how many movie goers are going to think of the Star Wars Saga in years to come (in fact many younger audience members already do) -- tame and boring.

I don't remember where, but I remember watching an interview with lucas saying that the reason he changed the lightsaber battles to fast paced and quick was because today's audience would be bored with the slow fighting ala vader/luke ep.VI. To an extend I think he was right, but I wouldn't have minded more dialogue between anakin/obi-wan at the end of ep. III. Obi-Wan just seemed to automatically given up on his "brother" and just decided to kill him. Not very jedi like if you ask me. off point, you guys mentioned Empire of Dreams, it is a part of the OT DVD set? Is it on the extras disc? I honestly haven't even looked.

 

[Customikey]

I don't remember where, but I remember watching an interview with lucas saying that the reason he changed the lightsaber battles to fast paced and quick was because today's audience would be bored with the slow fighting ala vader/luke ep.VI.

I think I heard that too.

Obi-Wan just seemed to automatically given up on his "brother" and just decided to kill him. Not very jedi like if you ask me.

I think once your buddy slaughters all your extended family, including the kiddies, then is seen kneeling before your most hated enemy, the friendship can safely be said to be over.

off point, you guys mentioned Empire of Dreams, it is a part of the OT DVD set? Is it on the extras disc? I honestly haven't even looked.

Yeah, it's on the bonus disc from the orignal DVD release. The whole bonus disc is well worth the viewing. Great extras!

 

[PosterBoyKelly]

In just think George can't direct. He can write, he can think of good ideas, just...not direct. There's so many scenes in the PT's where I'm sure there were better takes, but he chose a poor one. The PT's might have been better, IMO, if someone else directed them. Let the flaming begin.

 

[Beren]

In just think George can't direct. He can write, he can think of good ideas, just...not direct. There's so many scenes in the PT's where I'm sure there were better takes, but he chose a poor one. The PT's might have been better, IMO, if someone else directed them. Let the flaming begin.

I see no reason to flame... I don't know that anybody would have a different opinion on that. I don't think he chose poor takes, the takes in themselves were poor. And Ben Burton was the editor on the PT, with Lucas having input. I mean, look at the 'deleted scenes' of the PT... some of them are SO BAD, especially Anakin being brought over to Padme's family for dinner in EpII. Or that kiddie scene in Ep I with the other kids. Even a scene that could have been really dramatic where Anakin as a 10 year old decks another kid for calling him names was so weak. I only found out recently that Lucas had wanted Spielberg to direct Ep V but couldn't because Lucas had left the DGA over a spat about Ep IV. And you can imagine, if Spielberg had done V, he would have done VI... and maybe the PT. Sigh.

 

[Anzik]

I think it comes down to Lucas personality. Lets face it, he's pretty dry and kinda dull, so when the performance comes across that way I'm sure it seems normal to him. He's got some incredible strengths and he is genuinely visionary, however he has stated many times he hires actors that know how to act so he doesn't need to instruct them how to act. Now I'm not an actor myself, but I would imagine its pretty hard to feel connected in front of a giant green screen and someone using a Ben Stein monotone to explain the scene to you. All of these actors have done wonderful jobs with other directors and the best films in the saga weren't directed by GL.
I got the impression he was making a huge commercial for the benefits of digital filming first and completing SW second.

 

[LOTRFan]

Faster, and more intense!