Star Wars PT, CW and OT

[Beren]

Finally did what I wanted to do for years:

Wednesday I sat down and watched Ep I, II Clone Wars I and II and Ep III.
Thursday I watched Ep IV, V and VI (2004 edition).

(yes, I had time off) :chew

Some thoughts:

* Anyone who ever suggests, that the reason those who grew up with the OT think the OT is better than the PT is because they have clouded memories from their childhood, is simply wrong. I've now watched all of 'em back to back, haven't watched the OT in years. And I feel confirmed in what I had always thought, that the PT was heavy on the effects and light on the characters. That the PT has an infantile humor at times that you will find nowhere in the OT (like JarJar stepping in ****, getting his hand stuck, C3PO's head switcher in II etc).

* Lucas is a visionary but he can't deal with actors. PT has weak characters and weak acting. Ewan is a very good actor and he was barely able to make something out of his role, Natalie Portman couldn't fill in the role like Carrie Fisher did. They are different characters, granted, but the OT actors I think weren't afraid to challenge Lucas and his writing.

* Harrison Ford MADE the OT.

* the PT would IMO benefit greatly by just deleting the most painful lines of dialogue, most of all JarJar Binks in Ep I and any "oops" from Jake Lloyd. Can ANYONE really defend Padme in III "Hold me like you did on Naboo when all we had was our love?" I mean, come on, seriously! If I could take out for example in III "Anakin... you're breaking my heart!" I think the scene could be taken more seriously, rather than what appears to be a play written by a high schooler.

* I like the change of the Emperor scene in V

* I like that they took away Luke's scream again when he falls in Bespin City which was originally silent (and there was a point that he didn't make a sound as he fell what seemed to his death) and for some reason a scream was added in '97

* in V, the Vader takes a shuttle from Bespin to his Star Destoyer scene seems so superfluous, especially since it looks like an outtake from VI (does the Executor landing bay look exactly like the Second Death Star's??)

* IV, Han and Greedo now shoot at the same time, so an improvement from '97 but still why even change it!?

* the OT benefitted from Lucas NOT writing and directing V and VI

* V IS the best one of 'em all

* if only the PT had been more like Clone Wars I/II

* I prefer the Original Ewok Celebration song

* I prefer Lapti Nek. Couldn't they have redone the characters with the same song? Personal preference. The new song ain't bad.

* I found it really hard to imagine Hayden-Anakin being in the Darth Vader costume in the OT. I can go with Suited Vader sounding like James Earl Jones due to electronic amplification etc, but speech patterns and modulations? He talks in a totally different way and how he stresses words and pronounces them. Electronics wouldn't change that and that is why I felt let down. They are not the same to me and it feels out of whack.

* with that in mind, what would you think of Lucas changing Jones' voice to Hayden's for the OT? It would prob never happen but it would be an interesting experiment. This way it would feel like it's Hayden-Anakin in the suit in the OT. And Lucas is trying to bridge everything to make it feel like it all belongs together, anyway. OR maybe dub all of Hayden in II and III with Jones' voice.

* I think IV benefitted the most from having the PT. It feels most connected to the PT, there is no Puppet-Yoda to contrast with CG Yoda. And there is plenty Kenobi. And Tatooine. And Ewan did a great job channeling Alec Guiness.

* I wish Lucas would release Clone Wars I and II as a 2hr 15 min feature and use all the actors from the PT for their appropriate voices. Only Anthony Daniels was there for C3PO (and I think the guy from Grievous), all other characters were voiced by other actors. He could make another bundle by re-releasing the Clone Wars Special edition with original actors voices!

* if ILM could do it, I wouldn't be opposed to replacing Yoda in V and VI with CG Yoda.

* I'm all for replacing Yoda in I with CG Yoda! (hey we can always go to the original release version if we want to)

* I'm on the fence about putting Hayden-spirit in the VI ending. Lucas might as well then have put Ewan instead of Alec Guiness in there, to stay consistent. I know the explanation for it but I think it's a lil' weak. Unnecessary.

* I think I'm done for now.

Beren

 

[TheObsoleteMan]

* if ILM could do it, I wouldn't be opposed to replacing Yoda in V and VI with CG Yoda.

Beren... you're breaking my heart!

 

[The Josh]

* Anyone who ever suggests, that the reason those who grew up with the OT think the OT is better than the PT is because they have clouded memories from their childhood, is simply wrong. I've now watched all of 'em back to back, haven't watched the OT in years. And I feel confirmed in what I had always thought, that the PT was heavy on the effects and light on the characters. That the PT has an infantile humor at times that you will find nowhere in the OT (like JarJar stepping in ****, getting his hand stuck, C3PO's head switcher in II etc).

Well, I would still disagree that a good deal of the PT hating has nothing to do with watching SW as a kid. Not all but I would bet a decent amount. The PT is heavy on the effects no doubt about that. The characters are a little lighter than I'd like but there most of them I was happy with. The humor some of it I could do without like the Jar Jar but I didnt mind the 3PO thing.

* Lucas is a visionary but he can't deal with actors. PT has weak characters and weak acting. Ewan is a very good actor and he was barely able to make something out of his role, Natalie Portman couldn't fill in the role like Carrie Fisher did. They are different characters, granted, but the OT actors I think weren't afraid to challenge Lucas and his writing.

I agree Lucas cannot write for the most part and he has a hard time dealing with actors. I thought Ewan did a super job pulling off Obi-Wan and Natalie did a solid job as well. I was as impressed with her as I was with Carrie and her job in the OT. I actually liked Hayden as well.

* the PT would IMO benefit greatly by just deleting the most painful lines of dialogue, most of all JarJar Binks in Ep I and any "oops" from Jake Lloyd. Can ANYONE really defend Padme in III "Hold me like you did on Naboo when all we had was our love?" I mean, come on, seriously! If I could take out for example in III "Anakin... you're breaking my heart!" I think the scene could be taken more seriously, rather than what appears to be a play written by a high schooler.

The OT could do with some changes as well so neither is perfect. I liked Jake Lloyd as well. I could do without the hold me like you did on Naboo line but I do like the Anakin you're breaking my heart adds to how bad what Anakin is doing.

* I like the change of the Emperor scene in V

Same here on that.

* the OT benefitted from Lucas NOT writing and directing V and VI

I totally agree. Lucas did a good job with the PT but they could have been better if done by Spielberg or someone else.

* V IS the best one of 'em all

ROTS is up there for me.

* I prefer the Original Ewok Celebration song

I like the going all over the universe. Kind of ties it all together.

* with that in mind, what would you think of Lucas changing Jones' voice to Hayden's for the OT? It would prob never happen but it would be an interesting experiment. This way it would feel like it's Hayden-Anakin in the suit in the OT. And Lucas is trying to bridge everything to make it feel like it all belongs together, anyway. OR maybe dub all of Hayden in II and III with Jones' voice.

Leave Jone in.

* I'm on the fence about putting Hayden-spirit in the VI ending. Lucas might as well then have put Ewan instead of Alec Guiness in there, to stay consistent. I know the explanation for it but I think it's a lil' weak. Unnecessary.

This was one change I like the most. It make sense to me and again ties everything together.

 

[The Mike]

Don't give Lucas any ideas....if Ewan agreed something tells me we would have gotten all the Ghost Kenobis in the OT to look just like PT Obi. I like the new Ewok song something about it makes it fit better....Jar-Jar and the Gungans were the BIGGEST mistake of the PT, Lucas could have kept them in and made them stoic warriors that were respected and noble but maybe were kept at bay by the Naboo because of fear and misunderstanding. Making Jar-Jar more ancient they could have still pulled off a lot of the physical humor because it would have played like "Country Mouse in the City" style and been more understandable and less slapstick and moronic. I have a feeling though once the ultra bundle is released of all six movies they'll be an amazing amount of changes.....

 

[PosterBoyKelly]

OT4L FOOLS! NO SPECIAL CRAP! RECOGNIZE OR DIE!


or have your own opinion, I don't care, just remember, you're wrong

 

[gdb]

Movies are products of their time and expressions of the fashions of their era.

I predict all six will be remade in twenty to fifty years and those will rule them all except for old farts who saw the OT in the theaters who will moan and complain. And then they will be remade again in another twenty years time. Like all the best stories, they should be retold and allowed to change with time.

 

[The ill Jedi]

OT4L FOOLS! NO SPECIAL CRAP! RECOGNIZE OR DIE!


or have your own opinion, I don't care, just remember, you're wrong

WORD to ya Motha!!!

 

[Darth Madden]

As long as I have the "real" OT on DVD now George can screw it up as much as he wants from now on.... but there is NO WAY Yoda should be CG in V and VI.

 

[Darth Caedus]

WORD to ya Motha!!!

I agree with you on pretty much all of your points. The reason why the OT was better than the PT is that it emphasized the CHARACTERS and not EFFECTS. And don't give lucas ideas about replacing cgi yoda in Ep. V and VI, he just might do it. Is it odd, or am I the only one who prefered the 1980 puppet to both EP. I puppet and cgi yoda?

 

[automaton]

i can defend the lines ""Hold me like you did on Naboo when all we had was our love?" and ""Anakin... you're breaking my heart!"
i think a lot of people missed the point... complaints of the love between Anakin and Padme not feeling real... that IS the point... it wasn't love but insecurity... the "romantic talk" had to feel awkward...it wasn't genuine... it was more about possession than love... it was an attempt at holding on to something that wasn't even there in the first place!

"I'm all for replacing Yoda in I with CG Yoda!"

i totally agree!

"if ILM could do it, I wouldn't be opposed to replacing Yoda in V and VI with CG Yoda."

i totally disagree!

 

[MaulFan]

I think the key difference between the trilogies is not any difference in Lucas (especially because he didn't fully direct episode 5 & 6 which could have been much different if he did), but I think the reason for differences is that with the Original Trilogy, Star Wars quickly became popular, but for the film makers and actors and everyone, it was about braving a new frontier in film making and doing something unique and had a much different mental approach when being made. By the time the PT was made, and many of the actors said so in interviews, there was a mindset of, "THIS IS STAR WARS!" it was no longer special, but rather it was being a part of a phenomena and it was George's story and they all approached it like they were strangers with no rights to interfere with how things got done so like was said earlier, there was probably a lot of "sure George" moments with Hayden and Natalie and even Ewan where with the OT, George didn't necessarily know what he was doing so he at times relied on Harrison and Mark to help him along the way as he grew as a film maker.

 

[Anzik]

IV Worked because it was new. V and VI worked so well because they had good directors that pulled a performance from the actors instead of just telling the actors to act.
A good director can work around bad dialogue. I don't know if the worlds best director could have helped the dialogue from III.
Lucas has great ideas and he can edit well and I like his decisions regarding design and appearance, but he's a bad director.

 

[PosterBoyKelly]

Movies are products of their time and expressions of the fashions of their era.

I predict all six will be remade in twenty to fifty years and those will rule them all except for old farts who saw the OT in the theaters who will moan and complain. And then they will be remade again in another twenty years time. Like all the best stories, they should be retold and allowed to change with time.

I was a baby and couldn't see them in theaters, I still know a good movie from a bad one....OOOO SNAPS!

I'm just messing with ya!

Still, I watch the old ones I see things I enjoy, mainly the story. I watch the new ones, and enjoy myself, but walk away with nothing more than eye candy. The story wasn't there so much, for me. But I mean the debate is kind of useless, we all have our opinions.

I'll say this though: Clone Wars cartoons ruled the damned PT's asses and that's cause, as we learned from ESB and ROTJ, George can't direct! Let him write it, then walk the hell away! Gendy and crew rocked hard with that, bringing in the elements from the old movies that worked, that we didn't see so much of in the new ones.:chew :chew

 

[DarkArtist81]

IV Worked because it was new. V and VI worked so well because they had good directors that pulled a performance from the actors instead of just telling the actors to act.
A good director can work around bad dialogue. I don't know if the worlds best director could have helped the dialogue from III.
Lucas has great ideas and he can edit well and I like his decisions regarding design and appearance, but he's a bad director.

That is the most well written explanation for why the PT falls a tad short of the OT.... Bravo man... I totally agree.

 

[Beren]

JLCMSU
The OT could do with some changes as well so neither is perfect. I liked Jake Lloyd as well. I could do without the hold me like you did on Naboo line but I do like the Anakin you're breaking my heart adds to how bad what Anakin is doing.

Do we really need Nat's tear-filled "breaking my heart" line to know how bad Anakin is doing?? If you wanna see a good delivery of that line, watch Pacino in Godfather II "Fredo... you broke my heart." That's acting!



JLCMSU I like the going all over the universe. Kind of ties it all together.

I like the tying together too but was talking about the Ewok song. Apropos, the CG looks dated in ROTJ from '97, compared to the PT.

 

[MisterToyNYC]

IMHO, EPIV, V, VI ROTFLMAO, LOL! OT, PT, ESB, ROTJ #1, IIDSSMS! BTW, FTW. LOL!

I have no idea what I'm saying. I just thought it was funny to read all those initials! LOL!

Eric

 

[Beren]

Movies are products of their time and expressions of the fashions of their era.

I predict all six will be remade in twenty to fifty years and those will rule them all except for old farts who saw the OT in the theaters who will moan and complain. And then they will be remade again in another twenty years time. Like all the best stories, they should be retold and allowed to change with time.

Ever see the remakes of Psycho or Sabrina?? Yeah, they totally OWNED the original movies... :emperor

Beren

 

[Beren]

I agree with you on pretty much all of your points. The reason why the OT was better than the PT is that it emphasized the CHARACTERS and not EFFECTS. And don't give lucas ideas about replacing cgi yoda in Ep. V and VI, he just might do it. Is it odd, or am I the only one who prefered the 1980 puppet to both EP. I puppet and cgi yoda?

The consensus seems to be to leave Muppet Yoda alone in V and VI.

What really got me when I first saw Ep I was I'd always read in interviews with Lucas how he'd say "story comes first" (interestingly enough, I'm not sure if he also referred to characters) and how movies fall short when they focus too much on Special FX. And to me, that is what he did. The commentaries on the DVDs are shockingly different, the PT vs the OT ones. On the PT commentaries he and his other crew members talk mostly about production and FX issues, in the OT he talks at length about story and character. I found those so much more interesting and at times even enlightening!

Beren

 

[Rocktonix]

Making Jar-Jar more ancient they could have still pulled off a lot of the physical humor because it would have played like "Country Mouse in the City" style and been more understandable and less slapstick and moronic. I have a feeling though once the ultra bundle is released of all six movies they'll be an amazing amount of changes.....

I really like that idea. A lot like Spock in the Voyage Home.

 

[Customikey]

I love audio commentary, but the one for ESB is rendered nearly unlistenable because Kirshner just narrates for the most part. Bleh.

I'd go for CG OT Yoda. No problem. Sounds like fun. Just don't touch Jabba.