Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[sithocan]

From what I've seen so far:
Rey uses mind trick without training.
Audience: How can she do that without training?

Baby Yoda lifts the beast up in the air.
Audience: Amazing, that's SW we want.

TFA: Starkiller
Audience: Lazy move. They didn't come up with an original idea.

TLJ: Not like anything before.
Audience: This is not SW. This doesn't have any SWesque plot.

Audience: TLJ sucks. Let's see how JJ fix this.
Audience: JJ tried to fix TLJ. Why didn't he continue the story?

Audience played most Jedi Knight games, used force healing, had no issue with them which was canon at the time.
Audience saw Rey use force healing and say it made all deaths in previous movies unnecessary and made all the Jedi stupid. At the same time they are amazed by baby Yoda's force healing.

Audience accepted Dark Empire, but mourned when Palpatine returned in the movies.

Me? I like most of SW. None of the movies are perfect, but I enjoy what is given. Apart from Canto and fleet escape plot, I like TLJ. Some shots are beautiful.

What if this movie does not cross 1 billion mark? Overlyhyped Black Panther earned more money than The Dark Knight. Box office results are for studios, not us.
My main complaint for TROS, somehow Anakin should have shown up and pass his force to Rey. That would make it certain he is the chosen one.

 

[Khev]

My main complaint for TROS, somehow Anakin should have shown up and pass his force to Rey.

He did actually, you hear Hayden with the other Jedi encouraging Rey and he says something like "You must rise and bring Balance to the Force as I once did" or something like that right before they all channel their powers directly through her.

That would make it certain he is the chosen one.

Anakin is still the Chosen One, Leia is still the Other, and Ben Solo becomes the most powerful Jedi ever so I think people can lay their issues with Rey to rest. They even made a point to show that she was no better than Luke at his weakest when she ran off to Ach-To to die herself.

 

[sithocan]

Why SW can't be like Marvel?
Marvel distinguished its movie universe from comic books right at the beginning. And they build movies on good comic book storylines, they tweaked them when necessary.
In SW universe, though movies are the main canon, other media are canon too, at least they were until Disney's acquisition. You can't build a movie inspiring from several comic book storylines. Apart from it is not suitable for SW structure, fans would have striked back.

 

[ZE_501]

Most of what I could say regarding the details of this movie have already been said by others, no point in repeating *all* of the ?liked this, not that? etc.

The movie was better than TLJ, and felt more like Star Wars. It was certainly entertaining and had some nice moments.

It was obvious Abrams was trying to jam 2 films into one, given the mad pace of exposition and plot catch-up.

Perhaps typical of Abrams (I haven?t seen a lot of his work) once you scratch the surface there isn?t much there.

A lot of stuff happens or appears out of convenience and I?m sure as hell not going to other media for the ?backstory? that will no doubt jump through narrative hoops to ?explain? it all.

The level of acting in this film was generally superior to the OT and PT...and no surprise Driver was exceptional.

As Kylo he may have been a murdering, genocidal, patricidal psychopath for 2.5 films but as Ben Solo he was positively charming and heroic with more than a dash of Harrison Ford?s Han Solo.

What passes for ?redemption? in Star Wars is bulls**t and that goes all the way back to Lucas. One good act forgives millions of shattered lives and planetary scale murder ... yeah no, but that?s the Star Wars tradition.

Still, for a franchise trying to be relevant and egalitarian, having your female protagonist passionately kiss and forgive her murderous, abusive stalker is right up there with rendering your one compelling POC character a comic-relief sidekick. Seriously, WTF Disney?

Finn was an utterly wasted opportunity; Poe was a bit bitter (forced street cred by making him a former drug trafficker like Han *yawn*) but following TLJ I guess he would be

He?s also a crap leader. The panic and desperation coming over the comms as they lost that air battle prompted him to ... break down and *apologize* ?! Worst. Leader. Ever. A disappointing character.

Rey was mostly angry, but given that she went from a hard life straight into warfare and loss, I guess it makes sense, and we needed her to teeter on the good ol? Dark Fence as per Star Wars tradition, so okay. Poe crying about her being ?their best fighter? was both forced and a bit much.

This film felt a lot like ROTJ. Not just the structure of the 3rd act (coordinated ground and air assault while Space Wizards confront each other) but in terms of overall feel. They wrapped it up, it had its moments but really kinda weak.

I feel that TFA and TROS lacked imagination but they were at least entertaining on a superficial level. TLJ was a prolonged insult.

I feel the Sequel Trilogy as a whole is a mishandled, lost opportunity, and a disappointment that I will strike from personal canon.

And finally...Star Wars owes a huge debt to John Williams. He *is* Star Wars. The turn of the tide in the final battle with his triumphant score swelling above it was something to be enjoyed all on its own.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Khev]

Why SW can't be like Marvel?
Marvel distinguished its movie universe from comic books right at the beginning. And they build movies on good comic book storylines, they tweaked them when necessary.
In SW universe, though movies are the main canon, other media are canon too, at least they were until Disney's acquisition. You can't build a movie inspiring from several comic book storylines. Apart from it is not suitable for SW structure, fans would have striked back.

Would have?

 

[sithocan]

He did actually, you hear Hayden with the other Jedi encouraging Rey and he says something like "You must rise and bring Balance to the Force as I once did" or something like that right before they all channel their powers directly through her.



Anakin is still the Chosen One, Leia is still the Other, and Ben Solo becomes the most powerful Jedi ever so I think people can lay their issues with Rey to rest. They even made a point to show that she was no better than Luke at his weakest when she ran off to Ach-To to die herself.

Yes, it became apparent Rey is not the most powerful. But she's getting support from all Jedi could have been established better visually. And in fact, I think that it must have been shown that all Jedi minus Anakin is still not enough to beat all the sith and he is essential in winning the battle.

 

[ZE_501]

From what I've seen so far:
Rey uses mind trick without training.
Audience: How can she do that without training?

Baby Yoda lifts the beast up in the air.
Audience: Amazing, that's SW we want.

The Child is a fifty-year old alien, so he gets some leeway.

TFA: Starkiller
Audience: Lazy move. They didn't come up with an original idea.

TLJ: Not like anything before.
Audience: This is not SW. This doesn't have any SWesque plot.

I've heard this counter a lot. Why is it so difficult to understand that *different* does not automatically mean *better*? Johnson tried, and ******ed up. A for effort but he lost the plot. Literally.

Audience: TLJ sucks. Let's see how JJ fix this.
Audience: JJ tried to fix TLJ. Why didn't he continue the story?

Meh, he did what he could. This trilogy has been plagued with inconsistent, mediocre to bad writing. Not unusual for Star Wars if we're honest.

Audience accepted Dark Empire, but mourned when Palpatine returned in the movies.

I have almost zero familiarity with the EU stuff. If the ST had given me a rise of Palpatine that was more like Sauron's return (or Voldemort's for that matter) than a freaking Jack-in-the-box I would have responded to it better. As it is, he's not the worst part of the ST in my opinion, not by a long shot.

 

[Asta]

I realise what makes the Sequels so uninteresting.

It's the continual focus on the force and on making force users into supermen and supergirls.

Rather than just being another part of the universe, a mysterious ability used in moderation and often just to give an edge and a defence while in sabre combat, it's turning characters into gods and goddesses.

What I like about The Mandalorian is that Baby Yoda (who's more than twice Rey's age and likely a clone of Yoda himself) uses the force sparingly because it drains him. The focus is then on the more interesting part of the universe - the scoundrels, the Empire, the bounty hunters. This is more the world of a young Han Solo rather than that of an older Luke Skywalker, and as a kid Han was always my hero, never Luke.

 

[ZE_501]

I realise what makes the Sequels so uninteresting.

It's the continual focus on the force and on making force users into supermen and supergirls.

Rather than just being another part of the universe, a mysterious ability used in moderation and often just to give an edge and a defence while in sabre combat, it's turning characters into gods and goddesses.

What I like about The Mandalorian is that Baby Yoda (who's more than twice Rey's age and likely a clone of Yoda himself) uses the force sparingly because it drains him. The focus is then on the more interesting part of the universe - the scoundrels, the Empire, the bounty hunters. This is more the world of a young Han Solo rather than that of an older Luke Skywalker, and as a kid Han was always my hero, never Luke.

This comes down to a matter of taste. I personally hate overpowered characters, but lots of people love that stuff.

 

[sithocan]

The child is 50 years-old, but as its metabolism is different from us it's like 5 years. Apart from his physics, mental functions does not appear to be on par with a 50 years-old person. 50 or not, it's a child.

 

[Asta]

This comes down to a matter of taste. I personally hate overpowered characters, but lots of people love that stuff.

I find the journey more interesting than the destination. So a character is also more interesting when they go through life in actual danger (even if we know that there is never any real danger - until Luke actually did get killed off before his time!)

Rey already seemed bulletproof before undertaking the journey. So she's very much on rails heading towards her divine destination. Luke went through struggles and trials, the Bacta tank and the loss of a hand.

 

[ZE_501]

The child is 50 years-old, but as its metabolism is different from us it's like 5 years. Apart from his physics, mental functions does not appear to be on par with a 50 years-old person. 50 or not, it's a child.

Your speculation vs. my speculation? Unwinnable in any case, so I won't try to change your mind.

My position on The Child is that it's of another race and sufficiently, profoundly different enough, to get away with doing some stuff a human protagonist maybe should not. If your opinion differs that's the end of that -- until the authors of the fantasy in question reveal their grand design we won't know who's "right" -- and that reveal may or may not be acceptable to some.

 

[Asta]

The child is 50 years-old, but as its metabolism is different from us it's like 5 years. Apart from his physics, mental functions does not appear to be on par with a 50 years-old person. 50 or not, it's a child.

He's probably inherited Yoda's power, because things went that way in TROS.

Just as Rey had inherited Palpatine's, so she was already pretty much a fully formed force user without training.

The key is that Luke struggled, but the new generation don't need to under the new writers.

 

[ZE_501]

I find the journey more interesting than the destination. So a character is also more interesting when they go through life in actual danger (even if we know that there is never any real danger - until Luke actually did get killed off before his time!)

Rey already seemed bulletproof before undertaking the journey. So she's very much on rails heading towards her divine destination. Luke went through struggles and trials, the Bacta tank and the loss of a hand.

I concur. And while he was a crack pilot and valuable to the Rebellion, no one had to heavy-handedly call him out as "their best fighter". In fact he needed Han to save him from certain death twice.

Did Rey need saving at any point, I can't remember?

 

[sithocan]

Anyway, I have no problem with either the asset or Rey using force. I enjoy watching them and that's the important thing.

 

[Asta]

I concur. And while he was a crack pilot and valuable to the Rebellion, no one had to heavy-handedly call him out as "their best fighter". In fact he needed Han to save him from certain death twice.

Did Rey need saving at any point, I can't remember?

I concur with that too.

Luke was rash, cocky and vulnerable due to over-confidence. He was rescued multiple times, what with Han finding him after the wampa attack and then Lando pulling him from the weather vane.

While he was a space wizard in the making he was still very human. He was on the hero's journey - and in fact one thing that TLJ might've actually got right is that he displayed human fear and doubt that encouraged him to go into hiding, take a wing from his X-Wing to use as a door, and sink the craft in the sea so it couldn't be used again.

Of course, that also robbed us of seeing the more mature Luke in real action.

The TROS retcon of bringing back Luke as a hero rather than a failure was a little late since they'd already killed him off. And in their rush they also forgot that one of the wings on his X-Wing should be missing when it rises.


It all depends just how much money Disney want to make, because they can keep trotting this stuff out until the seacows come home.

 

[xipotec]

From what I've seen so far:
Rey uses mind trick without training.
Audience: How can she do that without training?

Baby Yoda lifts the beast up in the air.
Audience: Amazing, that's SW we want.

TFA: Starkiller
Audience: Lazy move. They didn't come up with an original idea.

TLJ: Not like anything before.
Audience: This is not SW. This doesn't have any SWesque plot.

Audience: TLJ sucks. Let's see how JJ fix this.
Audience: JJ tried to fix TLJ. Why didn't he continue the story?

Audience played most Jedi Knight games, used force healing, had no issue with them which was canon at the time.
Audience saw Rey use force healing and say it made all deaths in previous movies unnecessary and made all the Jedi stupid. At the same time they are amazed by baby Yoda's force healing.

Audience accepted Dark Empire, but mourned when Palpatine returned in the movies.

Me? I like most of SW. None of the movies are perfect, but I enjoy what is given. Apart from Canto and fleet escape plot, I like TLJ. Some shots are beautiful.

What if this movie does not cross 1 billion mark? Overlyhyped Black Panther earned more money than The Dark Knight. Box office results are for studios, not us.
My main complaint for TROS, somehow Anakin should have shown up and pass his force to Rey. That would make it certain he is the chosen one.

Post of the day.

No one hates SW more than SW fans.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Khev]

I'm surprised we didn't see a Lando/Nien Nunb reunion since Nunb was in both TFA and TLJ. I wonder why they decided not to include him in this one.

 

[Wor-Gar]

View attachment 473787

See I thought after he said "I am all the Sith" I thought it would be better if she said: And I am everyone else.

Makes the Sith seem smaller. Especially after everyone else in the galaxy has come to the aid of the Rebellion.

 

[Asta]

See I thought after he said "I am all the Sith" I thought it would be better if she said: And I am everyone else.

Makes the Sith seem smaller. Especially after everyone else in the galaxy has come to the aid of the Rebellion.

Yes, especially since everybody and their dog showed up.

It was like that scene from Terminator 2 - the last movie I saw in a cinema - when John Connor is asked how many police there were: "All of 'em, I think."