Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[ironwez20]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Nothing I can post here will change anyone's mind about ROTS. And I wouldn't even want to. I actually envy anyone who thinks highly of it because I wish like crazy that I could regard ROTS as a good film, or even just an enjoyable one. But I don't think I'll ever see it as anything other than a complete mess. And it actually blows my mind how ROTS is perceived as a superior film to either of the ST movies. Not even remotely close, IMO. Not in acting, writing, dialogue, cinematography, effects, sophistication, coherency . . . not in *any* way whatsoever.

I could spend all day going over how cringey the Artoo oil slapstick was . . . how goofy and lame the elevator sequence was . . . the WTF that Grievous was . . . the absurdity of what the final lightsaber duel turned into . . . and on and on (in typical embarrassing PT form). But none of that matters anywhere near as much as what a cluster**** ROTS made of the turning of Anakin into Vader. The most important storyline/plot in the entire Skywalker Saga became an utter joke (even before we get to "NNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!"). And I never would've even thought it possible before the PT. An epic possibility turned into an epic fail.

ROTS didn't establish any believable rationale for Anakin's turn. In fact, much of the story even undermines the notion that Anakin would ever serve an evil master at all! From lighthearted banter with Obi-Wan . . . to his increased sense for him as a father figure . . . to his affection for Padme and his unborn child(ren). Even him resisting slicing off Dooku's head until he was ordered to "dew it." Why!? This guy had cut off Anakin's hand and totally embarrassed him; so with Kenobi unconscious, *that* was an opportunity to show how Anakin's experience with the Tuskens in AOTC had evolved. Show that he was more lost soul than meets the eye, and that his instincts had changed. But nope; gotta keep Anakin's good nature prevalent enough so that when he turns at the end, and is willing to hurt/kill the two people he cared most about (Padme & Kenobi), we're left saying, "Wait . . . what!?"

All the while, not a single friggin' Jedi *Master* could sense what was going on! After all the talk in the first 5 movies about "search your feelings" and "I can sense the (fill in the blank) in you" we're supposed to believe that all of these super-powerful Jedi *Masters* were completely oblivious to whatever deep turmoil would cause Anakin to embrace the dark side? Think about how that conflicts with what came before: Vader could sense Luke's thoughts, even about his secret sister; Luke could sense Vader's conflict; Yoda could see young Luke's ambitions . . . from ACROSS THE GALAXY!!. But not one of these great and powerful Jedi could sense what was happening to Anakin, right there next to them!?

And he turned to save his wife from dying. The motive that nearly 20 years to think about in order to explain Luke's father murdering countless people in servitude to an evil master was . . . just to learn the power/ability to keep his wife alive? The one who he turns around and levels accusations at before choking her? Ridiculous. To this day - and after THREE prequel films, if anyone is asked by someone who doesn't watch SW why Anakin turned evil, there won't be a consistent (or coherent) answer from fans who actually love this stuff. That's what ROTS will leave as its legacy: a convoluted mess that ended up leaving as many questions as it provided in answers. Not a good film in a cinematic sense, but a much worse film in terms of justifying its own existence.



I spent all that time writing, and jye does it better in one sentence. I'll get the hang of this eventually.

Ok but TLJ legacy is literally the destruction of the brand or the division of the fan base lol. Yea you can hate rots all you want but it’s held as the greatest of the PT and loved. Nobody likes the ST. Just a handful. Lol the hype for this movie alone is little to none.

 

[xipotec]

Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Ok but TLJ legacy is literally the destruction of the brand or the division of the fan base lol. Yea you can hate rots all you want but it’s held as the greatest of the PT and loved. Nobody likes the ST. Just a handful. Lol the hype for this movie alone is little to none.

I think its unfair to say no one likes it. I do, and quite a few other bordies do....and as far as destruction of the brand? We shall see. My guess is the brand may have taken a hit, but I still think the next film will break box
Office records yet again.


Clearly some people like it, dare I say alot of people like it. Its definitely divisive, but truth be known , I can watch ST with less cringe that PT.....

I honestly can count on one hand the scenes I enjoy from TPM and AOTC.

I like ROTS, but its got more failings to me than ST.

After thinking about ST and the hate its gets, I believe it mostly comes down to fans who were VERY disappointed with Luke and his portrayal in TLJ. Combined with the perceived “Mary Sue” in Rey....

Most folks I know liked TFA BEFORE TLJ. They hoped for the few plot points they had misgivings about from TFA would be explained to their satisfaction in TLJ (which did not happen in their opinions)

In all honesty, I am finding ST much more rewatchable than PT these days. But I do not have issues with Lukes story, nor do I feel Rey is MS any more that other heroes we have seen.







Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

 

[ironwez20]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

I think its unfair to say no one likes it. I do, and quite a few other bordies do....and as far as destruction of the brand? We shall see. My guess is the brand may have taken a hit, but I still think the next film will break box
Office records yet again.


Clearly some people like it, dare I say alot of people like it. Its definitely divisive, but truth be known , I can watch ST with less cringe that PT.....

I honestly can count on one hand the scenes I enjoy from TPM and AOTC.

I like ROTS, but its got more failings to me than ST.

After thinking about ST and the hate its gets, I believe it mostly comes down to fans who were VERY disappointed with Luke and his portrayal in TLJ. Combined with the perceived “Mary Sue” in Rey....

Most folks I know liked TFA BEFORE TLJ. They hoped for the few plot points they had misgivings about from TFA would be explained to their satisfaction in TLJ (which did not happen in their opinions)

In all honesty, I am finding ST much more rewatchable than PT these days. But I do not have issues with Lukes story, nor do I feel Rey is MS any more that other heroes we have seen.







Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

Yea I’m sure people like it but it’s a handful of people. No offense but you, ajp, jye and I think khev are the only ones who seem to like it on here compared to various other threads where there are many people commenting I only see you guys. But I just pop in every now and again. I.... I just cannot see what you guys see in terms of good story or character development. People knock it but the whole Vader transformation was emotional. You knew it was gonna happen but it still was tragic. All Star Wars movies are corny and they all have silly parts in them. TLJ just doesn’t resonate with many people imo. It feels like the series is done. The story telling is just horrendous. There is no huge threat the heroes must overcome. There is no huge mystery’s that need to be solved. No loss for the heroes to overcome and get over. The big draw for this was the old characters handing over to the younger gen but they failed miserably. All the old gen is dead now and the fan base isn’t invested in these characters. Yea say what u want about rots but it didn’t divide the fan base to this degree. It had its issues but TLJ made it so Star Wars is meh now. The PT didn’t do that. Yea aotc sucked and tpm had its moments but none of them came close to this.

Hell I can’t pick one classic moment from TLJ. I can pick a classic moment from tpm tho. Darth mail entrance scene . The PT may not of been good but it had its iconic moments they still live up even today . This franchise? Can’t see it.

 

[xipotec]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Its sad for folks who feel thats SW is dead for them, really sad. I understand where your coming from.

But I will still disagree, its not a handful of people , its more like 50/50. The folks you mention are the ones on the board who will still talk about SW. Many gave up because it became suck a toxic subject in here and they didn’t care to engage the frankly rabid hate that was posted hour after hour by many disgruntled fans. I myself gave up posting here for a long while due to the constant/repetitive negativity from the same users. (Many who left).

The remaining people who post are much more civil and reasonable with the stuff they post.....good on them!


I still am very excited for IX.

As far as exciting moments? For me?

1. Ren attacking the village and killing Lor....laser blast stop, Finn turning, all awesome.

2. Poe/Finn escaping from 1st order.

3. Han returns to the Falcon

4. Poe saves the day taming out all the ties.

5. Ren captures Rey in the forest.

6. Ren killing Han

7. Rey catching Lukes Saber.

TLJ

1. Poes attack run on the Dreadnaught.

2. Luke giving in and explaining the true nature of the Force.

3. Rey and Lukes conflict, fight.

4. Luke on the Falcon

5. Throne room battle.

6. Holdo maneuver.

7. Lukes entrance on Crait, and the battle that follows.

All those moments felt like true trilogy things to me. Are the films perfect, no. There will never be another OT for us.

Cringy stuff? Sure...like all SW, Rathtars,
Mas cantina, and the entire Canto scene/Rose are misses....but I see just as many misses (more perhaps) in PT. Not to mention the production/acting/ is honestly IMO worse than OT.

I can HOPE IX will be the magic key that brings the three together as a successful story for many fans, and reunite the best fan base in the world.....but in the times we are now living, I do not think its possible. Too many people now make a living or define themselves with tearing things apart.


Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

 

[Star-Crunch]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

For the record, I enjoy both PT and ST. When it comes to SW, I’m more of a glass is half full kind of guy. I can’t deny their faults, but when they’re good, they’re really good.

PS, I appreciate the civil banter going on in here

 

[rushmore223]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

I like it, and most people who don't obsess about this stuff on boards like this, liked it too.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[Neal136]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

For what it's worth, I like all of the Star Wars films (to varying degrees, obviously). And though I can find something to fault in ALL of them, I tend to concentrate on the many things I love throughout the saga. I don't have the time or energy to spend hating things.

 

[jye4ever]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Nothing I can post here will change anyone's mind about ROTS. And I wouldn't even want to. I actually envy anyone who thinks highly of it because I wish like crazy that I could regard ROTS as a good film, or even just an enjoyable one. But I don't think I'll ever see it as anything other than a complete mess. And it actually blows my mind how ROTS is perceived as a superior film to either of the ST movies. Not even remotely close, IMO. Not in acting, writing, dialogue, cinematography, effects, sophistication, coherency . . . not in *any* way whatsoever.

I could spend all day going over how cringey the Artoo oil slapstick was . . . how goofy and lame the elevator sequence was . . . the WTF that Grievous was . . . the absurdity of what the final lightsaber duel turned into . . . and on and on (in typical embarrassing PT form). But none of that matters anywhere near as much as what a cluster**** ROTS made of the turning of Anakin into Vader. The most important storyline/plot in the entire Skywalker Saga became an utter joke (even before we get to "NNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!"). And I never would've even thought it possible before the PT. An epic possibility turned into an epic fail.

ROTS didn't establish any believable rationale for Anakin's turn. In fact, much of the story even undermines the notion that Anakin would ever serve an evil master at all! From lighthearted banter with Obi-Wan . . . to his increased sense for him as a father figure . . . to his affection for Padme and his unborn child(ren). Even him resisting slicing off Dooku's head until he was ordered to "dew it." Why!? This guy had cut off Anakin's hand and totally embarrassed him; so with Kenobi unconscious, *that* was an opportunity to show how Anakin's experience with the Tuskens in AOTC had evolved. Show that he was more lost soul than meets the eye, and that his instincts had changed. But nope; gotta keep Anakin's good nature prevalent enough so that when he turns at the end, and is willing to hurt/kill the two people he cared most about (Padme & Kenobi), we're left saying, "Wait . . . what!?"

All the while, not a single friggin' Jedi *Master* could sense what was going on! After all the talk in the first 5 movies about "search your feelings" and "I can sense the (fill in the blank) in you" we're supposed to believe that all of these super-powerful Jedi *Masters* were completely oblivious to whatever deep turmoil would cause Anakin to embrace the dark side? Think about how that conflicts with what came before: Vader could sense Luke's thoughts, even about his secret sister; Luke could sense Vader's conflict; Yoda could see young Luke's ambitions . . . from ACROSS THE GALAXY!!. But not one of these great and powerful Jedi could sense what was happening to Anakin, right there next to them!?

And he turned to save his wife from dying. The motive that nearly 20 years to think about in order to explain Luke's father murdering countless people in servitude to an evil master was . . . just to learn the power/ability to keep his wife alive? The one who he turns around and levels accusations at before choking her? Ridiculous. To this day - and after THREE prequel films, if anyone is asked by someone who doesn't watch SW why Anakin turned evil, there won't be a consistent (or coherent) answer from fans who actually love this stuff. That's what ROTS will leave as its legacy: a convoluted mess that ended up leaving as many questions as it provided in answers. Not a good film in a cinematic sense, but a much worse film in terms of justifying its own existence.



I spent all that time writing, and jye does it better in one sentence. I'll get the hang of this eventually.

You have an incredible gift of thematic and narrative deconstruction equaled only by a few on here and I’m not one of them.

But for me it’s quite simple I don’t need anything more than Lucas...not Rian or Kennedy...but Lucas took the most iconic and arguably the best villain in cinematic history (without cgi no less) and gave him that NOOOO scene can you imagine if Thanos did that during the End Game climax or Hans Gruber lol

But what I really find laughable is when people use the PT to knock down the ST as if those are SW done right!!!!

I’m ok if people hate the ST I certainly haven’t attached myself to the new characters quite as much as I was hoping I would BUT christ o mighty they’re at the very least actual real movies and not whatever those PT abominations are.

So get cracking on being more like me lol

 

[MegaPrime33]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

I feel like if you truly hate the PT or ST then you're not really a SW fan to begin with. I love the OT but really don't like a lot of stuff in ROTJ. While I dislike the PT as a whole, each movie does have some great moments. And while I basically disliked all of TLJ, I did in fact enjoy most of TFA and hope that Ep9 will do a good job closing out this saga.

 

[a-dev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

I feel like if you truly hate the PT or ST then you're not really a SW fan to begin with. I love the OT but really don't like a lot of stuff in ROTJ. While I dislike the PT as a whole, each movie does have some great moments. And while I basically disliked all of TLJ, I did in fact enjoy most of TFA and hope that Ep9 will do a good job closing out this saga.

I wonder about that myself. I like exactly half of the currently existing films and dislike the other half. Solo balanced the scale. Episode IX will probably unbalance it again where I will dislike more Star Wars films than I like.

 

[jye4ever]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

ajp remember a picture is a worth a thousand of your beautifully written words

 

[rushmore223]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

ajp remember a picture is a worth a thousand of your beautifully written words [emoji38]

View attachment 448255
View attachment 448256
View attachment 448257
View attachment 448258

[emoji38] @ T2 Arnie thumbs up NOOOOOOO!


You should add the Predator doing a Nooooooo!


Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[jye4ever]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Maybe in space no one can hear you scream but in lava they can sure hear you say NOOOOO lol

 

[rushmore223]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Maybe in space no one can hear you scream but in lave they can sure hear you say NOOOOO lol

Lol, they should also add a fart noise from a bursting lava bubble after Arnold goes under.

Lucas would have totally done that.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[ajp4mgs]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Ok but TLJ legacy is literally the destruction of the brand or the division of the fan base lol. Yea you can hate rots all you want but it’s held as the greatest of the PT and loved. Nobody likes the ST. Just a handful. Lol the hype for this movie alone is little to none.

Saying "greatest of the PT" is like handing me three loaded diapers and telling me that the last one doesn't stink as bad as the first two. Either way, I'm left with three piles of ****.

And I'll agree with you about the legacy of TLJ, and the whole ST, *if* Ep9 bombs. But if it has a huge opening week, and great overall box office, your statements here are gonna seem really silly.

You have an incredible gift of thematic and narrative deconstruction equaled only by a few on here and I’m not one of them.

But for me it’s quite simple I don’t need anything more than Lucas...not Rian or Kennedy...but Lucas took the most iconic and arguably the best villain in cinematic history (without cgi no less) and gave him that NOOOO scene can you imagine if Thanos did that during the End Game climax or Hans Gruber lol

Thanks for the kind words. They're undeserved, but I greatly appreciate them. As far as the Vader thing, Lucas actually doubled down on it and had Vader saying it again for the ROTJ blu-ray. That one actually bothers me even more! But I'm not gonna get on that tangent.

BTW, like rushmore223, I love the T-800 thumbs-up "NOOOOO!!" in your pic. Yep, nothing says great storytelling better than a good ol' fashioned "NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!" to really make sure people understand the character's emotions at that moment.

But what I really find laughable is when people use the PT to knock down the ST as if those are SW done right!!!!

I’m ok if people hate the ST I certainly haven’t attached myself to the new characters quite as much as I was hoping I would BUT christ o mighty they’re at the very least actual real movies and not whatever those PT abominations are.

AMEN!!! That's my biggest issue with this sort of debate. If your life depended on taking either the PT or the ST to be judged on merit, how can anyone honestly answer the PT?

Anyone who thinks either of the PT movies are better films than either of the two ST movies just watches films in a completely different way than I do. Which is fine, but it leaves me completely perplexed when it comes to trying to figure out what they're seeing.

I'd rather watch TFA and TLJ on a 24-hour loop than watch any of the PT even once. That's how big of a disparity I perceive in the quality of film product. I may be totally wrong, but it's not from lack of trying to find merit in the PT. I've done it for years.

So get cracking on being more like me lol

Your insight, conciseness, wit and humor are second to none around here. So, being more like jye is a worthy goal for me and anyone else. But I definitely wouldn't want to emulate your experiences in your prior career as a medic; that definitely ain't for me.

I feel like if you truly hate the PT or ST then you're not really a SW fan to begin with. I love the OT but really don't like a lot of stuff in ROTJ. While I dislike the PT as a whole, each movie does have some great moments. And while I basically disliked all of TLJ, I did in fact enjoy most of TFA and hope that Ep9 will do a good job closing out this saga.

I don't think "hate" is an accurate description of how most fans regard the PT. For me, it's more like complete dejection from bitter, bitter disappointment. I can compare it to a parent of a really smart kid who brought back three straight failing report cards after having excelled before. The reaction is more of a, "You're better than this! I'm so disappointed. Were you even trying!?"

But TLJ? Yeah, there are A TON of people who truly *hate* that movie. I still don't understand exactly why, but the hate out there is undeniable. I don't think it makes them lesser fans, though; just passionate ones.

 

[Reefer Shark]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

I love TLJ, and most of the SW fans I know in "real life" loved it as well.

Negative voices on the internet are just much louder than positive ones unfortunately, and some of the folks that dislike the movie seem to make it their mission to be as loud as possible about it.

Like some of you guys said, to me the PT feels more like a kids movie and is hard to take seriously with the terrible acting, scripts, etc... Fortunately for me though, I like kids moves - so I do get a lot of enjoyment out of them still.

 

[Khev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

ROTS didn't establish any believable rationale for Anakin's turn. In fact, much of the story even undermines the notion that Anakin would ever serve an evil master at all! From lighthearted banter with Obi-Wan . . . to his increased sense for him as a father figure . . . to his affection for Padme and his unborn child(ren). Even him resisting slicing off Dooku's head until he was ordered to "dew it."

Not to mention how stupid a line (and thought) "And I will learn how to keep people from dying" is. That's like something an idiotic four year old might say while playing with action figures not a grown ass man to his adult girlfriend, lol.

And lol at all of jye's "Nooooos" including the thought of Thanos saying that at the end of Endgame.

 

[ajp4mgs]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Not to mention how stupid a line (and thought) "And I will learn how to keep people from dying" is. That's like something an idiotic four year old might say while playing with action figures not a grown ass man to his adult girlfriend, lol.

Unfortunately, the phrase "something an idiotic four year old might say" can be applied to way too much of the PT.

 

[loki2371]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

I love TLJ, and most of the SW fans I know in "real life" loved it as well.

Negative voices on the internet are just much louder than positive ones unfortunately, and some of the folks that dislike the movie seem to make it their mission to be as loud as possible about it.

And yet, I'm the exact opposite. Myself, my son, my closest friends & people I Know in "real life" all thought it was a steaming pile of crap. Only a couple thought it was just OK.

And in regards to the PT, whether you liked it or not, we got many very memorable characters and vehicles. We got nothing from the ST. Kylo Ren was the closest as he looked cool at 1st, but removing his mask so early was a big mistake. Imagine Vader running around in ESB & ROTJ without a helmet... Just look at toy & collectible sales to prove that. No, or very few, peg warmers are from the OT or even the PT. Even Kylo Ren barely sells.

 

[Khev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Unfortunately, the phrase "something an idiotic four year old might say" can be applied to way too much of the PT.

And I literally had to put the "idiotic" qualifier because it's otherwise still too dumb for a regular four year old to say, lol.

Anakin: "I miss my mom! So I will learn to keep people from dying!"

Padme: "I don't even know how to respond to that, are you literally mentally handicapped?"

"I dropped my groceries so I will find a way to make gravity not work! Waaaa!" FFS, lol.