Somehow Rey Returned

[amstel]

Huge SW fan here… (Saw ROTJ at the movie theater for the first time in 1983 and became a fan). I still hate PT except that I still watch only Revenge Of The Sith from that PT trilogy. ESB is my all time favorite with ROTJ as runner up. ANH was a notable mention. Rogue One was the best of all sequels. Solo and The Last Jedi were the worst. I enjoyed watching TFA and TROS more than I’d thought.

Looking forward to seeing the new movies. Why? Like I said I’m a huge SW fan, I’d welcome more Star Wars films, regardless.

 

[jye4ever]

Huge SW fan here… (Saw ROTJ at the movie theater for the first time in 1983 and became a fan). I still hate PT except that I still watch only Revenge Of The Sith from that PT trilogy. ESB is my all time favorite with ROTJ as runner up. ANH was a notable mention. Rogue One was the best of all sequels. Solo and The Last Jedi were the worst. I enjoyed watching TFA and TROS more than I’d thought.

Looking forward to seeing the new movies. Why? Like I said I’m a huge SW fan, I’d welcome more Star Wars films, regardless.

ANH notable mention?

Notable mention?

NOTABLE MENTION!

 

[Khev]

Just looked up the director's wiki page, good lord this is who they hired to direct a Rey movie?

Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy (Urdu: شرمین عبید چنائے; born 12 November 1978) is a Pakistani journalist, filmmaker and activist known for her work in films that highlight the inequality for women.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Not really, alienate your fans enough and they’ll leave.

There's always new kids. Disney thrives on that.

 

[Wor-Gar]

No one and nothing is ever too big to fail.

Except Bank of America.

 

[Sassafras]

I really think they’re underestimating the fact that it is going to be hard to get people into a theatre for a movie focused on Rey doing the very thing people thought/hoped Luke would be doing in a sequel trilogy. It’s really hard from a conceptual standpoint to sell this kind of a movie, yet this appears to be the one that will take the 2025 release date. It’s an extreme risk to go in this direction. Each sequel made less than the last and unless they somehow pull a miracle out, this will likely continue that trend.

For me it's already a negative that the director of the IMO bland Ms. Marvel is handling this, Oscar winner for documentaries or not.

Ms. Marvel was pleasant enough, and IMO completely forgettable. I can't even remember what happened or who the villain was - was there a villain?

Add to that Disney's seeming indifference, a lot of time, to IMO good writing.....
Yes the heroes end up victorious at the end of the first SW movie and temporarily defeat the villain. That's usually how it goes. I mean big bad Vader got defeated by freakin Han and another TIE fighter crashing into him. Lol

IMO in general, you can grow a character (like Tony Stark or Chris Rogers to a hero with a certain skill set); or you can present a character with an actor who has enough presence that you know exactly who the character is, and can believe in the character, instantly (like a Nick Fury or the Armorer). Since early on, Rey didn't have the benefit of a skilled mentor or hint of a "special" bloodline - we never even got a few tiny scenes of her like Broom Boy. If she'd done something strange like moved objects, or a few tiny "Force scenes" IMO it would have helped her sudden vault into uber-power. Maybe it was something she hid from others. For me the whole Palps thing is completely awkward and unbelievable - far better if she had been related to the rebellious Qui-Gon who logically could have been assumed to have gotten around a lot.

Anyway IMO magic box Abrams & co. blew it - at least in TLJ you have some relevant conversations with Luke, as opposed to suddenly not only is Rey the best fighter, she's the best pilot. So I won't be racing to watch this, it'd take IMO writers and director of phenomenal skill - with the ability to do interesting action scenes as well - to make this effort something more than a hack thing. It doesn't help that Disney is cost cutting all over the place, so who knows about the CGI or what other actors might get hired. Add to that the negativity with some about Rey doing what Luke was doing - it's boringly unoriginal at best. Can't imagine what Disney is drinking these days.

 

[jaztermareal]

Rewind to late 2015 after watching TFA in the movie theatre. It was different then.

Well, ok, I was disappointed that it was just a remake in disguise and confused at Rey just knowing how to use force abilities without training and how the galaxy had just reset to rebels vs empire again but still, I was willing to forgive if it led somewhere good.


As many have said, Reys intro was great. I not ashamed to say that I started to tear up when I saw the scenes of her living on Tatooine- I mean Jakuu, I was ready to call her my favourite Star Wars protagonist but things quickly went downhill.


Still, after watching the film I assumed that there was a good reason for what I saw that would be revealed in the next film. In my head Rey was Lukes daughter, he had hidden her on jakuu amd wiped her memory (she remembered her parents leaving her there but no indication she remembered anything prior to that). I assumed Luke had to wipe her memory for her protection, to essentially cut off her connection to the force and that it was now awakening. So I assumed her knowing how to use the force and being so strong in it was her beginning to remember her training, skills first.



I also assumed that Luke had been influencing things through the force to lead her to where she needed to be.



I also thought that the online theories that Snoke was Plaguis made complete sense so I was excited to see Rey Skywalker defeat him. It just felt like the matural conclusion to the saga and it fit with the biblical themes with Anakin, Luke and Rey being 3 generations of essentially the same spirit, the father, the son and the holy ghost, the holy trinity.


But the TLJ gave us.... well, it answered nothing and only served to actually create plot holes retroactively, and in doing so made TFA unsalvageable. And of course TROS finished it off with the Palpatine nonsense.


The trilogy was a mess, and that is just the one character, if I went into detail about all of the issues with the trilogy I would have a 20 page essay on here.



Suffice it to say, the hate for Rey the character does not come from a place of misogyny or hatred of the actress, it comes from hate of the abysmal writing and lack of any coherency or logic in the Disney trilogy. That is why I will skip this Rey movie.


That is of course, unless the Ahsoka show somehow uses the world between worlds seen in the trailer to undo the sequel trilogy and the new movie is not connected to it. In that case I will watch it.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Suffice it to say, the hate for Rey the character does not come from a place of misogyny or hatred of the actress, it comes from hate of the abysmal writing and lack of any coherency or logic in the Disney trilogy.

This.

Only Indiana Jones should be able to "make it up as he goes".

 

[Khev]

For me it's already a negative that the director of the IMO bland Ms. Marvel is handling this

Wait this is being helmed by the director of MS. MARVEL!?!?

The lowest rated show in the history of the MCU earns her a tentpole SW film? Yeah okay. It was a fun ride while it lasted. Thank God for Avatar, Maverick, Wick, D&D, classic Star Trek, etc.

 

[Sassafras]

Wait this is being helmed by the director of MS. MARVEL!?!?

The lowest rated show in the history of the MCU earns her a tentpole SW film? Yeah okay. It was a fun ride while it lasted. Thank God for Avatar, Maverick, Wick, D&D, classic Star Trek, etc.

Yeah. Worse, IMO it's never a good sign "Following the exit of previously attached writers Damon Lindelof and Justin Britt-Gibson"....unlike the Mandalorian, which originally had F&F going to KK with a solid plan (originally) and an entire arc - I never like to hear about changing directors and writers. To me it telegraphs - chaos.

Also the media goes on about "the first woman of color to direct a Star Wars film" and all I can think of is who cares what color, to make a real success out of this film that is hamstrung by so much negativity out of the gate, and Disney cost cuts, is gonna take some spectacular skills. Including choreographing light saber battles that aren't just waving light sabers around 3 feet from your opponent and twirling like you are doing a light show at half time.

Suffice it to say, the hate for Rey the character does not come from a place of misogyny or hatred of the actress, it comes from hate of the abysmal writing and lack of any coherency or logic in the Disney trilogy. That is why I will skip this Rey movie.

Rey started out great. I was so excited at first for Finn's arc, as well. So unique - a face on a Stormtrooper, and a Stormtrooper who quits, yet. As has been posted, it was a bummer in later interviews seeing a talented cast so flattened and depressed about the whole thing.

 

[The Buffinator]

Ah, The Matrix. Endlessly rewatchable. Wtf is even a "TPM"?

Obviously TPM = Top Pistol Maverick. But why jye thinks it was spanked by The Matrix in 1999 I have no idea....

 

[MeatHookGekko]

Ah, The Matrix. Endlessly rewatchable. Wtf is even a "TPM"?

The Phantom Menace got essentially gang banged by the competition around that time in the movie world.

The Matrix was ground breaking. It made Phantom Menace looked dated in some ways, even upon release. Part of that was the massive expectations for TPM. The Mummy came out and offered the kind of simple fun and compact storytelling that TPM lacked. Not long after, Gladiator came out, and there was an archetype of a classic "hero's journey" that TPM failed to capture.

On TV, The West Wing came out, and highlighted how to make an accessible narrative using political plot lines ( i.e. a deep sharp contrast to the Trade Federation blockade, etc, etc)

IMHO, The West Wing was hugely influential in what was being written in other IPs and projects at the time. The difference is Aaron Sorkin is a writing genius. Probably the kind of writer you only get once every generation in film/TV. I don't like all his stuff, but Lucas doesn't even come close. Which is where Lucas might have overestimated his abilities. He had Kasdan helping him in the originals. AOTC and ROTS both came later and I've always felt it tried to encapsulate some of the level of engagement you could get on West Wing, but fell far short as Dollar Tree version of it.

This kind of stuff happens. After Pulp Fiction came out, everyone tried to make their version of it and failed. When Lost on ABC was a huge hit, you got a bunch of stuff trying to be "Lost like" and they failed. And then you had West Wing. Where lots of people in the industry thought you could infuse complex political themes into what amounts to IPs built more about "comfort food" viewing, and didn't see their entire fleet burning at sea.

But where the sequel trilogy failed beyond the prequel trilogy, is that it's better to have one singular narrative voice, even if it doesn't work, versus what amounts to crowd sourcing / group think and then have that not work.

At least the worst of the Hayden Christensen era was just George getting too old, but it was all him.

The Abrams / Kennedy stuff was an orgy of mediocrity. There isn't a singular narrative voice there.

P.S. That will be the last time I use the word "orgy" and Kathleen Kennedy in the same context. Ever.

 

[Garlador]

Rey started out great. I was so excited at first for Finn's arc, as well. So unique - a face on a Stormtrooper, and a Stormtrooper who quits, yet. As has been posted, it was a bummer in later interviews seeing a talented cast so flattened and depressed about the whole thing.

This is turning into commiseration, but the cast was great. The acting was great. The cinematography is great. The effects are great. The costumes are great. The set up is great.

Like, they had all the right ingredients to make it work. They were handed everything they needed on a silver platter.

I remember watching Boyega reacting to the first trailer and he and his family and friends are jumping off the couch with excitement.

We went from that to him bitterly saying Disney did nothing with his character and he doesn’t want to come back. From Daisy saying she’s so excited to see where Rey will go to somberly saying “the party ended” and the good vibes went away.

And now the ST is this big elephant in the room for the whole franchise. Everything Star Wars does circles it. It’s hard to watch stuff that takes place before knowing the awful destination, and it’s going to be very hard to continue forward given how poorly fans received the outcome. It wasn’t like a minor spin-off bombed; it was THE big concluding event ALL Star Wars media funnels towards now.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Disney is just doubling down on its own bad habits.

 

[Khev]

The Phantom Menace got essentially gang banged by the competition around that time in the movie world.

The Matrix was ground breaking. It made Phantom Menace looked dated in some ways, even upon release. Part of that was the massive expectations for TPM. The Mummy came out and offered the kind of simple fun and compact storytelling that TPM lacked. Not long after, Gladiator came out, and there was an archetype of a classic "hero's journey" that TPM failed to capture.

On TV, The West Wing came out, and highlighted how to make an accessible narrative using political plot lines ( i.e. a deep sharp contrast to the Trade Federation blockade, etc, etc)

Don't forget The Sixth Sense which came out a few short months later and instantly reminded everyone what a decent child actor could do.

 

[Garlador]

Okay, legit question.

Yes, we know the ST disappointed many.

So, that said, if you’re in Disney‘s shoes, how do you move forward with Rey from there?

 

[MeatHookGekko]

I remember watching Boyega reacting to the first trailer and he and his family and friends are jumping off the couch with excitement. We went from that to him bitterly saying Disney did nothing with his character and he doesn’t want to come back.

From the industry side, what I've always been told is that the original design was to have Rey and Finn as the main leads and as romantic interests. But the marketing departments, investors and suits were concerned how that might play out in international markets. Ridley was cast, in part, because she had a certain aesthetic designed to appeal to foreign markets. She has some of the features that line up with a lot of the KPop stars, etc, etc.

The Rose/Finn storyline, which made no sense, was crafted as as type of "compromise" in the plot to soothe over some clear hard feelings on the matter. And then they couldn't backtrack and recast Boyega without being utterly destroyed for it.

Driver and Ridley have absolutely zero chemistry. None. Not a single drop. But she was cast, in part, for her chemistry with Boyega, which is never truly explored.

The Big Mouse's and KK's virtue signaling for woke in the SW universe does have a limit. It's foreign markets. If that's at risk, the themes become as traditional mainstream as you can possibly get.

At least good old George actually created something on his own from scratch that became successful. Kennedy is just a coat rider. Never made anything great on her own. Just here to destroy other people's creations. When it comes to Star Wars, she's the ultimate parasite.

 

[MeatHookGekko]

Okay, legit question.

Yes, we know the ST disappointed many.

So, that said, if you’re in Disney‘s shoes, how do you move forward with Rey from there?

IMHO, make a Rey oriented film into a smaller more personal story.

The Star Wars that works now , like Andor and Mandalorian S1/S2 , is much much smaller. The stakes don't need to be all out intergalactic war all the time. Taylor Sheridan's Sicario is a good example of this. It's a very simple plot. Only a small handful of key characters. But it asks big questions.

Big movies that ask small questions usually fail. Small movies that ask big questions, and gets it right, usually succeed.

 

[MeatHookGekko]

Don't forget The Sixth Sense which came out a few short months later and instantly reminded everyone what a decent child actor could do.

Haley Joel Osment as Anakin?

March 28, 2000

The Washington Post reports Sunday that Haley Joel Osment of "The Sixth Sense" auditioned for the part of Anakin Skywalker in "Phantom Menace," but didn't get a callback. Would have been interesting, eh?

TheForce.Net - Episode I - Haley Joel Osment as Anakin?


*****

That's a great point, Khev. And speaking of Osment, he actually could have been Anakin.

There was a pathway where Osment, then Heath Ledger, could have both played Anakin. The scripts weren't the best in the PT, but I believe both actors could have elevated the material more than Jake Lloyd and Hayden Christensen.

 

[wormlander]

Okay, legit question.

Yes, we know the ST disappointed many.

So, that said, if you’re in Disney‘s shoes, how do you move forward with Rey from there?

You don't, unless you first use that "Many Worlds" plot device that people have been mentioning. I normally hate multiverses, but in this case it could actually do some good for a change