Snake Eyes 1/6 Environment!!!

[D. Martin]

fixed for accuracy!

No, my statement was MOF. Mit Out Flaw.

G.I. Joe = Larry Hama

Period.

 

[DPrime]

Cartoon < Marvel Comics

Yeah, but (and correct me if I'm wrong) it's the only time we see Timber being named, so it's all we have to go on!

EDIT: Oh yeah, and more importantly, the original '85 figure, where Timber was also quite small for a wolf.

As far as I'm concerned toys > comics > cartoons!

 

[Khev]

My friends and I played with Joes for all the peach filecard years and never picked up a single comic book. Hama didn't design the characters or name them (which were the only things that mattered at the time.) So no, Hama definitely does not = GI Joe. He = Filecard bios (which we only read to see what weapons they were qualified with, we made gave our own personalities to the figures) and the comics.

If you're into the comics then yes Hama is the man because he wrote them, but he was just creating adventures for characters given to him. Most people don't even know about things like Silent Interlude, the Hard Master, Brain Wave scanner, and so on. But if you ask them who the cool Commando dressed in black or Ninja in white were, you're guaranteed to get a "Snake Eyes!" or "Storm Shadow!" in response from even the most casual Joe fans.

 

[IrishJedi]

Actually, that's not really true. Hama did in fact name many of the characters. Snake Eyes, for instance, was just named "Commando" when he was sent the design. He came up with the rest on his own, including the name. Same for many of the classic RAH characters we love.

And the Marvel series not only fleshed out all of the characters (obviously) it also affected and influenced the toy line itself. It was a 2-way street.

So if you completely ignored the comics you unfortunately missed out on an essential part of the G.I. JOE RAH experience.

 

[uscmbuzz]

So if you completely ignored the comics you unfortunately missed out on an essential part of the G.I. JOE RAH experience.
DUDE THATS JUST AN OPINION.. C'MON....It wasnt Essential.. perhaps a good reference..or even a great read.. but not anything needed to enjoy the Gijoe Experience.. ofcoarse this is my own opinion..

i WAS BORN IN 1970.. MY BROTHER IN 1974 SO i PLAYED JOES WITH HIM AS WE DIDNT HAVE ANY NIEGHBORS i WAS 12-13 WHEN THEY CAME OUT AND HE WAS 8-9 .. We didnt read the comics. but we watched the show.. and made up our own adventures and even had wargames with them and some dice.. But we didnt miss some essential part of anything..We loved our joes and loved to play with them.. Back then we had imagination.. and it was wonderful to be a kid..

haha I am just saying essential might be a little strong of a word to use.. but I wouldnt know a better one..

 

[thenammagazine]

So if you completely ignored the comics you unfortunately missed out on an essential part of the G.I. JOE RAH experience.

DUDE THATS JUST AN OPINION.. C'MON....It wasnt Essential.. perhaps a good reference..or even a great read.. but not anything needed to enjoy the Gijoe Experience.. ofcoarse this is my own opinion..

i WAS BORN IN 1970.. MY BROTHER IN 1974 SO i PLAYED JOES WITH HIM AS WE DIDNT HAVE ANY NIEGHBORS i WAS 12-13 WHEN THEY CAME OUT AND HE WAS 8-9 .. We didnt read the comics. but we watched the show.. and made up our own adventures and even had wargames with them and some dice.. But we didnt miss some essential part of anything..We loved our joes and loved to play with them.. Back then we had imagination.. and it was wonderful to be a kid..

haha I am just saying essential might be a little strong of a word to use.. but I wouldnt know a better one..

No, he's right. The figures and cartoon were a great way to experience RAH. He's not saying they weren't. But collecting the Marvel run just took RAH from, "These things are the best!" to "OMFG, this is just... AWESOME!" Look at it like swimming. You can piddle around in the kiddie pool if you like (the figures), or you can jump around and splash in the shallow end of the pool (figures + cartoon), but you don't get the overall depth of the line, till you start swimming in the deep end (the Marvel comics).

 

[DPrime]

No, he's right. The figures and cartoon were a great way to experience RAH. He's not saying they weren't. But collecting the Marvel run just took RAH from, "These things are the best!" to "OMFG, this is just... AWESOME!" Look at it like swimming. You can piddle around in the kiddie pool if you like (the figures), or you can jump around and splash in the shallow end of the pool (figures + cartoon), but you don't get the overall depth of the line, till you start swimming in the deep end (the Marvel comics).

Yeah, I gotta agree with this.

Just a question, usmcbuzz - did you read the comics? If not, give 'em a try.

I admit, as a kid it was primarily the cartoon that I watched. I bought a GI Joe comic when I could but I didn't have anywhere to buy back issues, so I missed out on a lot (small town that didn't get a comic store until I was in my teens - I was SO jealous of my older cousin who had the entire run because he had a) money and b) access to a comic store because he lived in a larger city).

The cartoon was great for what it was (well, when it was Sunbow anyway), and the first couple of mini-series are especially great, but the comics really enriches GI Joe to another level. Considering that Larry Hama essentially invented the 1980s GI Joe toy line (I don't disagree with what Khev said BUT the 1982 figures were going to be generic army figures, not actual characters, so RAH as we know it would not have existed without him), you owe it to yourself to check out the comics if you're a fan.

 

[Khev]

I'm definitely not saying that Larry Hama wasn't a huge part of GI Joe, but he isn't to GI Joe what George Lucas is to Star Wars or James Cameron was to the first two Terminator films for instance. He isn't credited as naming any figures in any official interviews I've read (Snake Eyes was originally dubbed "Spook" not Commando). The "Official Guide to GI Joe 1982-1994" states that he was given paintings, drawings, and MOS's of the characters and then asked to write up their personalities and backgrounds on the filecards (and then of course flesh them out in the comics.)

I'm obviously not speaking for comic book junkies (and I love the Marvel series myself) but I know that I, and every kid I knew that had the toys, never really paid much attention to them. In fact if you go by any other property that wasn't a comic book first then the comics are actually just glorified EU. GI Joe just happens to be a rare case where the EU is typically respected as much or more than the core property.

Like Aayla Secura in SW, a select few characters existed in comic book form first (The Baroness, Oktober Guard, etc.), but they are by far the exceptions to the rule.

Duke, the face and voice of GI Joe since his debut as a 1983 mail-away figure and "leader" of the team in the MASS Device miniseries the same year existed for months in the aforementioned media before showing up in the comics.

 

[spazzy]

I like the cartoons as much as the next Joe fan, but the comics are essential if you are a Joe fan. REALLY good reads in there.

I hope to be buried with my full Joe comic run (yes and I have them all, Marvel, Image, DDP, IDW etc)

Of course I am joking, but I hope to pass them to my kid one day when he or she actually has respect for them.

 

[uscmbuzz]

Just a question, usmcbuzz - did you read the comics? If not, give 'em a try.

No I never got to read the comics.. small town.. and I aint saying that they wouldnt be a great read.. Or that they are'nt great to flesh out the characters.. they sound great.. Something to look for... Did they ever print them in graphic novels..

I noticed last weekend at a comics show gijoe comices were selling real well..

The Swimming reference is a pretty good example.. I like that explanation.. haha..

I was saying that the term essential is an opinion of how important the comics were to enjoy the gijoe experience when we were kids thats all..

 

[D. Martin]

So if you completely ignored the comics you unfortunately missed out on an essential part of the G.I. JOE RAH experience.

Exactly. Don't forget that the comic and toy line were marketed together as complimentary pieces of the whole...

Beides, seeing Snake Eyes in drag and dancing with Timber is all I need to know to realize that the cartoon is 100% irrelevant. Just like Star Wars EU books.

 

[thenammagazine]

Exactly. Don't forget that the comic and toy line were marketed together as complimentary pieces of the whole...

Beides, seeing Snake Eyes in drag and dancing with Timber is all I need to know to realize that the cartoon is 100% irrelevant. Just like Star Wars EU books.

Different. Star Wars needed the EU to bridge the Super Star Destroyer-sized plot holes. The Joe line didn't which is why DDP stories blow donkeys. My nephew found out I like G.I. Joe and bought me the WWIII TPB. Gotta find someone I hate and regift it to them.

 

[Khev]

Beides, seeing Snake Eyes in drag and dancing with Timber is all I need to know to realize that the cartoon is 100% irrelevant.

Wait a minute, the ENTIRE cartoon is irrelevant because Pyramid of Darkness took an iconic black-clad badass and made him effeminate? Well I guess the PT just made The Empire Strikes Back irrelevant.

 

[spazzy]

No I never got to read the comics.. small town.. and I aint saying that they wouldnt be a great read.. Or that they are'nt great to flesh out the characters.. they sound great.. Something to look for... Did they ever print them in graphic novels..

I noticed last weekend at a comics show gijoe comices were selling real well..

The Swimming reference is a pretty good example.. I like that explanation.. haha..

I was saying that the term essential is an opinion of how important the comics were to enjoy the gijoe experience when we were kids thats all..

IDW recently reprinted them I think they are on VOL 6, they all have J Scott Campbell covers. around $15-$20 a vol, but I am sure you can find them cheaper than retail.

 

[D. Martin]

Wait a minute, the ENTIRE cartoon is irrelevant because Pyramid of Darkness took an iconic black-clad badass and made him effeminate?

In a nutshell

 

[thenammagazine]

In a nutshell

To add a bit to the argument in your favor, watching the cartoon, it's clear that they didn't know how to handle characters like Snake Eyes or Storm Shadow. It's even more apparent after watching Resolute, in which, although still basically ignoring the comics, they clearly had a better grasp of the characters.

 

[IrishJedi]

Any argument that attempts to downplay the impact Larry Hama had on RAH (as well as the creation and development of the characters) is a non-starter.

I used the word essential on purpose and for a reason. To say you truly experienced the JOE RAH era without reading at least the first 20-30 issues of the comics is akin to saying you grew up loving STAR WARS, but never actually watched the movies and only read the novelizations and tie-ins and watched the DROIDS animated show.

And, Khev, there was an issue of Toyfare a couple of years ago with a Hama interview where he talked about naming "Snake Eyes" and other stuff that he did indeed create. You probably missed it, or ignored it... because in the same interview he also admitted to never having watched the (non-canon) cartoon.

 

[IrishJedi]

Exactly. Don't forget that the comic and toy line were marketed together as complimentary pieces of the whole...

Beides, seeing Snake Eyes in drag and dancing with Timber is all I need to know to realize that the cartoon is 100% irrelevant. Just like Star Wars EU books.

 

[spazzy]

Any argument that attempts to downplay the impact Larry Hama had on RAH (as well as the creation and development of the characters) is a non-starter.

I used the word essential on purpose and for a reason. To say you truly experienced the JOE RAH era without reading at least the first 20-30 issues of the comics is akin to saying you grew up loving STAR WARS, but never actually watched the movies and only read the novelizations and tie-ins and watched the DROIDS animated show.

And, Khev, there was an issue of Toyfare a couple of years ago with a Hama interview where he talked about naming "Snake Eyes" and other stuff that he did indeed create. You probably missed it, or ignored it... because in the same interview he also admitted to never having watched the (non-canon) cartoon.

 

[Khev]

And, Khev, there was an issue of Toyfare a couple of years ago with a Hama interview where he talked about naming "Snake Eyes" and other stuff that he did indeed create. You probably missed it, or ignored it... because in the same interview he also admitted to never having watched the (non-canon) cartoon.

I've also read that he supposedly never watched an episode of the cartoon. I don't really buy that but if he claimed in Toyfare to name Snake Eyes I'll take your word for it. That is indeed a pretty big deal then.

As for the comics, I love them. Are they GI Joe canon? No moreso than any other comic book adaptation of another property. "But Larry Hama wrote the filecards AND the comics! They MUST be canon!" Nah. Because then you have to throw his Devil's Due stories in with the Marvel run, Eco Warriors and all. And who's going to do that (other than D. Martin?)

Are they essential? No. My friends and I created our fair share of dramatic campaigns for our action figures to survive (or not survive) through. Years later I read the first 30 issues of the comic. The adventures created with my friends were better.