Should the Knights of Ren have been Snoke's guards?

[Khev]

Or they could have been piloting fighters alongside Kylo and one of them, after sensing his hesitation, was the one that blasted Leia into space. Maybe even have him be seen leaving Snoke's throne room at some point, which one could infer was after he'd narced on Kylo. It would also support the narrative that they were first & foremost loyal to the Emperor.

That definitely would have been cool though for whatever reason I was still fine with them being just cool looking "grunts" as well.

 

[YoNoSe]

Is there any EU stuff on the KoR?

I'd still be interested in learning about them. But I'm also hesitant to dip into more "story group" territory.

 

[ajp4mgs]

IMO RJ was right not to use them as Snoke's guards, but by not using them at all in TLJ HE wasted them. JJ didn't have enough time to develop the characters adequately in TROS. At least we got Ben's fight with them.

I think RJ had Luke say that Ben left with a handful of fellow students in order to have the KOR be those students. That way, there'd be a set of villains with a backstory and credible Jedi skills to serve as foils in the absence of Snoke and the eventual redemption of Kylo.

They'd be connected to former Master Luke (thereby giving Hamill more of a role in ep9) and also have an angle against Kylo for betraying their new Master Snoke. A KOR with Jedi skills and dark side training in ep9 would've been better than quickly-dispatched guards with melee weapon skills in ep8, IMO.

But instead of going with any of that, the KOR were given no backstory, and served little more purpose than standing on a hill for a sweeping shot like what would be used in a Bon Jovi video - before being taken out in short order by Ben.

 

[Khev]

I think RJ had Luke say that Ben left with a handful of fellow students in order to have the KOR be those students.

If you go by the films themselves and not the stupid expanded media crap then I don't see any other explanation than that so as far as I'm concerned the KOR will always be the "handful of students" that joined Ben in turning on Luke.

 

[ajp4mgs]

If you go by the films themselves and not the stupid expanded media crap then I don't see any other explanation than that so as far as I'm concerned the KOR will always be the "handful of students" that joined Ben in turning on Luke.

That's fine, but they showed no Force abilities whatsoever and still served very little story purpose. So, having them be Luke's students is purely a superficial footnote.

 

[Khev]

That's fine, but they showed no Force abilities whatsoever and still served very little story purpose.

They're henchmen. What "story purpose" were they supposed to have other than doing the bidding of their master and looking cool while doing it?

So, having them be Luke's students is purely a superficial footnote.

"Superficial" or not it's what the films suggest.

 

[Magpie 7]

Virtually all the new characters are a mess, either under thought out or under used following their initial appearance. Could they have been more? Yes they could've been sent to Ahch-To in TLJ to take on Luke and Rey... they could've been far more involved in the Crait battle... they could've interfered much earlier in TROS instead of the insane tread speeders and rocketeer troopers scene.

The ST is just a complete mess, it goes nowhere and achieves nothing...well may be it achieved Disney a load more money.

 

[ajp4mgs]

They're henchmen. What "story purpose" were they supposed to have other than doing the bidding of their master and looking cool while doing it?

What I'm saying is that if they were Luke's former students, there'd be more story purpose than merely being background henchmen. They could still look cool but actually have more to do with the story than just looking cool.

Having Luke's former students turn on him opens up possibilities to get into their motives. Having them be trained and skilled with the Force gives them more reason to be a legit fighting foe. Having them learn that their boy Kylo killed their Master Snoke could be used (if need be) to go even further with a vengeance angle.

Being henchmen that just stand there and look cool is okay, I guess. But I think the groundwork was laid in both the TFA Force vision Rey had (which was never explained in context) and the "Luke's students" context in TLJ for them to be more. Isn't that what most fans wanted? A KOR that had an actual background and purpose rather than not?

"Superficial" or not it's what the films suggest.

Okay, but again, to not follow through with having them demonstrate Force abilities isn't consistent with that. Instead, their TROS scenes are more consistent with not having been former Jedi students.

 

[YoNoSe]

Maybe he killed the advanced students who would be more jedi-indoctrinated and kept the younger ones he could impress with his long hair and road warrior cosplay.

 

[TheDucky]

They're henchmen. What "story purpose" were they supposed to have other than doing the bidding of their master and looking cool while doing it?



"Superficial" or not it's what the films suggest.

When did they even do that in the movies?

....


These guy were ultimately pointless. Didn’t look cool. No force powers shown. Multiple opportunities to have these guy show up and do something. Imagine Luke trying to fight all these guys off in a big lightsaber duel.

ST was a disorganized mess, KOR just another victim of awful awful planning in Disney’s race to cash in at the Box Office.

 

[ajp4mgs]

Maybe he killed the advanced students who would be more jedi-indoctrinated and kept the younger ones he could impress with his long hair and road warrior cosplay.

I wonder if he took them away on a sweet ride.

We still don't know how many years prior to TFA/TLJ that Ben turned on Luke. However old those "handful of students" were on that day, they'd either be 3-4 years older in TROS, or several more years. No one really knows.

 

[YoNoSe]

I think they look cool. My only real onscreen complaint regarding them is that they somehow apprehended Chewie offscreen with no fuss. But that's more of a Chewie problem. When he's just standing there while they search his purse it's like the worst episode of Cops. Chewie would definitely get shot down perp-shuffling to freedom rather than go back to the mud planet.

 

[ajp4mgs]

I think they look cool. My only real onscreen complaint regarding them is that they somehow apprehended Chewie offscreen with no fuss. But that's more of a Chewie problem. When he's just standing there while they search his purse it's like the worst episode of Cops. Chewie would definitely get shot down perp-shuffling to freedom rather than go back to the mud planet.

Chewie put up a bigger fight being taken prisoner in Jabba's palace, and that's when he *intended* to be taken prisoner.

 

[YoNoSe]

 

[Khev]

What I'm saying is that if they were Luke's former students, there'd be more story purpose than merely being background henchmen. They could still look cool but actually have more to do with the story than just looking cool.

Having Luke's former students turn on him opens up possibilities to get into their motives. Having them be trained and skilled with the Force gives them more reason to be a legit fighting foe. Having them learn that their boy Kylo killed their Master Snoke could be used (if need be) to go even further with a vengeance angle.

Being henchmen that just stand there and look cool is okay, I guess. But I think the groundwork was laid in both the TFA Force vision Rey had (which was never explained in context) and the "Luke's students" context in TLJ for them to be more. Isn't that what most fans wanted? A KOR that had an actual background and purpose rather than not?

I get being intrigued about the story potential of all these traitorous students but I think it was very naive to think that that would be deeply explored after TLJ. That would have sidetracked the entire film and really should have been delved into way back in TFA and then fleshed out through the entire trilogy if they really wanted to go that route. But with them getting a brief flashback in TFA and then RJ not doing anything with them in TLJ their status as cool looking henchmen and nothing more was clinched before TROS even began filming.

Okay, but again, to not follow through with having them demonstrate Force abilities isn't consistent with that. Instead, their TROS scenes are more consistent with not having been former Jedi students.

Except TROS follows TLJ which specifically said that some of Luke's students followed Ben. And if the KOR are literally named after him and are his personal henchmen then yes I would say that their TROS scenes are 100% in line with that. If you're saying that they don't appear to be former Jedi simply because we don't see them using the Force in a visible way then to that I would say we never saw Darth Maul do anything except stalk people, look cool, and fight with a lightsaber other than that one single Force push he did to Obi-Wan during their duel at the end. ANH Vader just did the one Force Choke on Motti and ROTJ Vader never used the Force at all so not seeing the KOR openly display any powers isn't very unusual.

If anything that one shot of them all standing on the Pasaana rock formation can be interpreted them as using the Force to track their quarries since Maul couldn't do it himself without the help of a planetary transmission trace and probe droids.

 

[Khev]

I think they look cool. My only real onscreen complaint regarding them is that they somehow apprehended Chewie offscreen with no fuss. But that's more of a Chewie problem. When he's just standing there while they search his purse it's like the worst episode of Cops.

Stormtrooper: "Ah, a Sith Dagger eh?"

Chewie: "Grarawwwr." ["that's not mine."]

 

[YoNoSe]

Ah ah ah - Darth Maul used a piece of junk to open the door in the hangar fight. Which was kind of a wasted effort since he was headed there anyway but he did like to showboat.

 

[Khev]

Ah ah ah - Darth Maul used a piece of junk to open the door in the hangar fight.

True and if Master Palpatine saw that he would be very grumpy.

 

[YoNoSe]

Stormtrooper: "Ah, a Sith Dagger eh?"

Chewie: "Grarawwwr." ["that's not mine."]

Lol

It's so sad. It's like security found his pot brownies going into the Dave Matthews concert.

 

[Khev]

Lol

It's so sad. It's like security found his pot brownies going into the Dave Matthews concert.

I saw DM in concert three separate times in the 90's/early 2000's.