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[TD-0488]

The series is the Lord of the Rings and Sauron never appears. Melkor and Sauron, at heart, are both cowards. Sauron has never won a battle. He lost to Huan, the hound of Valar, and Gil-Galad/Elendil.

He does not need the ring, according to the books, to have a solid form. He needs it to complete his power. He uses his will to dominate others. He already has daunted Saurman nto submission and convinced Denethor the battle is lost. Side bar here, Minas Tirith was prepared for battle. The woman and children had been sent away and the army ready. Denethor was just convinced he could not win. Jackson did a horrible dis service to Denethor and Faramir.

 

[The Josh]

See I took even from the book Saurons physical form was more ringwraith. Interesting to see someone else take it totally different. You're right though Sauron is a coward for sure and typical bully. I agree the TE he doesn't help Farsmir but the EE really do the character justice. However, I think he nailed Denethor and he matches th crazy jerk he is in the books

 

[Invictus Sol]

The series is the Lord of the Rings and Sauron never appears. Melkor and Sauron, at heart, are both cowards. Sauron has never won a battle. He lost to Huan, the hound of Valar, and Gil-Galad/Elendil.

He does not need the ring, according to the books, to have a solid form. He needs it to complete his power. He uses his will to dominate others. He already has daunted Saurman nto submission and convinced Denethor the battle is lost. Side bar here, Minas Tirith was prepared for battle. The woman and children had been sent away and the army ready. Denethor was just convinced he could not win. Jackson did a horrible dis service to Denethor and Faramir.

Ah, interesting, did not know that Sauron was so cowardly at heart, giving how intimidating he is in the books/movies (mind you, it's been 20+ years since I read the books, so doubtless I've forgotten a lot of the details).

Also good to get more detail on Denethor. I understood from the extended edition that Denethor was being daunted (great word in this context, btw) by Sauron via the palantír and had come to believe all was lost, though I have to agree that Jackson seems to have oversimplified him to the point that he just seems crazy and very unsympathetic. Again, though, I don't recall much of Denethor from the books so if that's how he comes across there (edited this after reading Josh's response), then I suppose it would be a fair reflection (assuming we're discussing the EE version)?

If you don't mind getting into it, is this same situation the only explanation we get in the book for why Saruman betrays his colleagues and joins up with Sauron (also presumably Saruman lusts for power, himself)? Although I loved the character of Saruman, I always wanted a more complex reason for his betrayal.

 

[j97e1]

The 'Geek' is strong with you....

 

[Bucky Underbelly]

It's been many years since I read the books, but as I recall, even in the Rankin & Bass cartoon version of RotK, Aragorn demands that Sauron show himself at the gates. So perhaps that moment is directly from the book. (Not that Rankin & Bass should be considered an authority on this!)

Awesome discussion, folks! Keep it up, it's great reading!

 

[The Josh]

Ah, interesting, did not know that Sauron was so cowardly at heart, giving how intimidating he is in the books/movies (mind you, it's been 20+ years since I read the books, so doubtless I've forgotten a lot of the details).

Also good to get more detail on Denethor. I understood from the extended edition that Denethor was being daunted (great word in this context, btw) by Sauron via the palantír and had come to believe all was lost, though I have to agree that Jackson seems to have oversimplified him to the point that he just seems crazy and very unsympathetic. Again, though, I don't recall much of Denethor from the books so if that's how he comes across there (edited this after reading Josh's response), then I suppose it would be a fair reflection (assuming we're discussing the EE version)?

If you don't mind getting into it, is this same situation the only explanation we get in the book for why Saruman betrays his colleagues and joins up with Sauron (also presumably Saruman lusts for power, himself)? Although I loved the character of Saruman, I always wanted a more complex reason for his betrayal.

Yeah, Saruman thinks by getting the ring he can become the leader of the world and changes side purely for power.

 

[Fritz]

I don't know, I mean if someone came on my property and started a fight and took something that belonged to me, I'd be kind of pissed off. I can feel four Sauron.

 

[Invictus Sol]

Yeah, Saruman thinks by getting the ring he can become the leader of the world and changes side purely for power.

Just spent the last several hours trolling through Wikipedia in regards to Sauron, Saruman and assorted other characters and everything makes more sense now. Reading all that material sure makes me want to see The Hobbit. Didn't realize before reading today that Christopher Lee will be back in character as Saruman (totally forgot he was in the book, at all). Should allow for Jackson to add a little more depth to Saruman's fall. Looking forward to it.

 

[Anubis]

Just spent the last several hours trolling through Wikipedia in regards to Sauron, Saruman and assorted other characters and everything makes more sense now. Reading all that material sure makes me want to see The Hobbit. Didn't realize before reading today that Christopher Lee will be back in character as Saruman (totally forgot he was in the book, at all). Should allow for Jackson to add a little more depth to Saruman's fall. Looking forward to it.

He wasn't.

 

[Invictus Sol]

Haha, guess that would explain my inability to recollect him. Well, even if it's not accurate to the book, really glad Lee's coming back. Can't imagine a better Saruman than him.

 

[TD-0488]

While Saurman was not in the Hobbit, when Gandalf leaves the group, it is to join the white council to battle Sauron in Milkwood forrest. We will get to see him as a good guy (though his interest is driving Sauron away from the river).

 

[Anubis]

Haha, guess that would explain my inability to recollect him. Well, even if it's not accurate to the book, really glad Lee's coming back. Can't imagine a better Saruman than him.

It's fine. He wasn't in The Hobbit itself, but the material will be taken from other Tolkien writings so it's all good.

 

[ede]

This is going to be top notch, I do have the SSW Sauron which I love, cannot wait to see some SDCC pics for this from either Josh or others.

I really hope Jerry gets back on doing the collage style art like he is doing for Star Wars for LoTR. I love my trilogy set and everyone that see them give them nice compliments. I hope we see more of trilogy set art from you Jerry soon. Keep up the good work.

 

[The Josh]

Just spent the last several hours trolling through Wikipedia in regards to Sauron, Saruman and assorted other characters and everything makes more sense now. Reading all that material sure makes me want to see The Hobbit. Didn't realize before reading today that Christopher Lee will be back in character as Saruman (totally forgot he was in the book, at all). Should allow for Jackson to add a little more depth to Saruman's fall. Looking forward to it.

Yeah, I love looking around and learning about all the things that happened in Middle-Earth during various times in that worlds history.

 

[Dutchart]

This is going to be top notch, I do have the SSW Sauron which I love, cannot wait to see some SDCC pics for this from either Josh or others.

I really hope Jerry gets back on doing the collage style art like he is doing for Star Wars for LoTR. I love my trilogy set and everyone that see them give them nice compliments. I hope we see more of trilogy set art from you Jerry soon. Keep up the good work.

Count on it. This winter I will begin designs for my The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey Fine Art Giclee. This will encompass the first film's essance in a montage movie poster style. Same goes for part two.
Somewhere between this will be Durin's Bane, my upcoming Balrog piece.
For those coming to SDCC, I will be demonstrating a Dwalin piece live.

Stay tuned!

JV

 

[The Josh]

Count on it. This winter I will begin designs for my The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey Fine Art Giclee. This will encompass the first film's essance in a montage movie poster style. Same goes for part two.
Somewhere between this will be Durin's Bane, my upcoming Balrog piece.
For those coming to SDCC, I will be demonstrating a Dwalin piece live.

Stay tuned!

JV

:

 

[Drakul]

Loving all the geek talk guys! Keep it up!

I really need to read all this again, Silmarillon, , Hobbit, LotR... I also have a gorgeous, bible paper, 3 volume edition of the History of Middle-Earth that I've yet to read.

https://www.tolkienlibrary.com/pcollier/JC00001.htm

Never knew there was only 1000 copies worldwide!!

 

[Invictus Sol]

*whistles* That's a beautiful set and something I'm sure anyone that appreciates books would really enjoy reading. Really adds to the experience with some material when the bindings are so well done, fine paper, etc.

I remember trying to read the Silmarillion back in the day but found it a tough slog, because I went in expecting it to be narratively similar to LOTR. Not sure how the Histories read, in that respect, but I'd like to use the Hobbit movies as an excuse to re-read everything, like you're thinking. I think with those Histories, it may be dense reading, so for myself I find I need to force myself to read a bit a day, otherwise it's too daunting and I keep putting it off.

 

[Olórin]

History of Middle-earth is very dense reading. But worth every hour you spend in it. It allows you to see how the stories of Middle-earth evolved into what was eventually published. (For example: the character of Strider was initially thought of as a Hobbit called Trotter. And the character that evolved into Sauron started out as a giant cat named Tevildo).

 

[Darth Waller]

I ordered the history of LOTR set yesterday.
[ame]https://www.amazon.com/History-Lord-Rings-J-R-R-Tolkien/dp/0618083553/ref=sr_1_18?ie=UTF8&qid=1341496272&sr=8-18&keywords=history+of+middle+earth[/ame]


I've been wanting to read these, but never got around to it. Wish me luck!

What drives me crazy the most about these is, aside from the expensive hardback sets, these aren't available in a consistent paperback set like the ones from the UK.