Marvel's Wanda Vision

[a-dev]

Was the objective to turn her into a villain? I didn't have any such notion at the outset of this show.

I saw a hero who was in grief and felt entitled to 'take something back' due to the poor hand she had been dealt in life. She managed to convince herself that she wasn't doing any real harm.

This certainly has the potential for villainy but I don't think we saw outright villainy - and I doubt we were supposed to see it as such - in no small part because it didn't seem to be Vision's abiding takeaway from the whole thing. He was concerned in earlier episodes but was there anything he said to her in the finale that I'm forgetting about?

 

[hellgrammite00]

Yes, with the given evidence she is a villain. However, I think they threw in some lines of dialogue to convince the generic Disney viewer that she probably wasn't. For example, Monica's speech at the end to me was inconsequential to questioning whether Wanda is a villain, but for the average viewer might make them more biased to less question Wanda's ethical dilemma.

But being a villain doesn't mean you can't be humanized or a sympathetic character.

Let us not forget that Illusionary Vision did not tell Wanda at the end that the other Vision had his memories restored, and is arguably the true Vision. A suspiciously callous act.

 

[TheDucky]

What an utterly meaningless series. Like they could of had her as the Scarlett Witch without needing an entire series for it. No twists or anything.

Like this show could have been two end credit scenes and I think it actually would have been better.

I’ll never watch this again. Huge disappointment.

 

[TheDucky]

Imagine teasing the Marvel Multiverse and it ends with a ****ing joke of Ralph Boner. I still can?t believe how awful this show turned out to be.

 

[TheDucky]

Yea why wasn?t Ralph bohner not identified before? Again just a poor decision that came out from nowhere cause..... lord knows what.

Pretty sure Rian Johnson secretly wrote this steaming trash. With all the expectations that were subverted and all.

 

[hellgrammite00]

I think the show has low re-watchability. Maybe in a few years I watch it again.

But it became an average show, reminding me more of Thor the Dark World then the best of the MCU.

Feige played it way to safe with this show, and it will be quickly forgotten because of it.

*Ducky, do you need 3 posts in a row for three sentences lol??

 

[e30ernest]

Imagine teasing the Marvel Multiverse and it ends with a ****ing joke of Ralph Boner. I still can?t believe how awful this show turned out to be.

Hahaha I found it hilarious! When you look back at the entire show, they have been making fun of people (like me) that like to dive into details and theorize. The board at the SWORD camp, all those tiny winks, Evan Peters... No one ever said this would introduce the multi-verse right? That was nothing more than a fan theory. Even Paul Bettany was trolling.

 

[a-dev]

Quicksilver turning out to be some randomer was definitely a ********* move when they knew the kind of excitement and speculation bringing that actor in would create. They shot themselves in the foot there I think.

 

[jye4ever]

That was a Shaquille O?Neal size **** move

 

[e30ernest]

Quicksilver turning out to be some randomer was definitely a ********* move when they knew the kind of excitement and speculation bringing that actor in would create. They shot themselves in the foot there I think.

I agree it was a ********* move, especially since this was definitely aimed at those who likes diving into theories. They wanted this reaction. I'm ok with it, but I understand how people can be upset about it.

 

[jye4ever]

I agree it was a ********* move, especially since this was definitely aimed at those who likes diving into theories. They wanted this reaction. I'm ok with it, but I understand how people can be upset about it.

But it’s even worse than that because they built him up as something WAY MORE than just a nobody.

His words had weight had meaning

Sure it was Agatha just using him to get a specific reaction out of Wanda but man what a let down lol

 

[Captain Clown]

Yeah. I loved the show up until this point, but the Quicksilver twist was garbage. Why not just get the Age of Ultron guy back?

 

[guyver1]

So since Wanda made Agatha..Agnes of Westview in the end and then the hex was broken and the town vanished from reality does this mean Agatha can never come back

 

[jye4ever]

Yeah. I loved the show up until this point, but the Quicksilver twist was garbage. Why not just get the Age of Ultron guy back?

Yup if they weren’t going to discuss the Multiverse then using ATJ would have had the same effect MINUS the insult.

Actually it would have been better since it would have been more emotionally powerful for Wanda seeing her REAL brother

sigh they ruined both scenarios

 

[The Buffinator]

Was the objective to turn her into a villain? I didn't have any such notion at the outset of this show.

I saw a hero who was in grief and felt entitled to 'take something back' due to the poor hand she had been dealt in life. She managed to convince herself that she wasn't doing any real harm.

This certainly has the potential for villainy but I don't think we saw outright villainy - and I doubt we were supposed to see it as such - in no small part because it didn't seem to be Vision's abiding takeaway from the whole thing. He was concerned in earlier episodes but was there anything he said to her in the finale that I'm forgetting about?

She also saved those soldiers that Agatha lifted high into the air and was in the process of slamming back to Earth - hardly the act of someone who was turning into a full-blown villain. And when confronted with the true nature of the cruelty she'd inflicted on the Westwiew residents, she did the right thing and let them out of the Hex. Prior to that she didn't allow herself to become aware of their suffering because it was rooted in a reality where her idyllic life with Vision couldn't exist. IMO she didn't "look" remorseful in the final act simply because those residents now viewed her with utter contempt and were not in a forgiving mood. At that point it was obvious that any attempt to apologize would have come off as hollow, so she kept her head down and got out of Dodge. Not that anyone could have stopped her.

 

[hellgrammite00]

She also saved those soldiers that Agatha lifted high into the air and was in the process of slamming back to Earth - hardly the act of someone who was turning into a full-blown villain. And when confronted with the true nature of the cruelty she'd inflicted on the Westwiew residents, she did the right thing and let them out of the Hex. Prior to that she didn't allow herself to become aware of their suffering because it was rooted in a reality where her idyllic life with Vision couldn't exist. IMO she didn't "look" remorseful in the final act simply because those residents now viewed her with utter contempt and were not in a forgiving mood. At that point it was obvious that any attempt to apologize would have come off as hollow, so she kept her head down and got out of Dodge. Not that anyone could have stopped her.

She choked them first. Her reaction wasn't to help or protect them but to punish them. Fortunately she still had a shred of humanity left, and started to spare them (but prevented them from leaving when she saw Vision and her imaginary kids suffering, and decided to put the hex back up to keep them trapped.) Wanda will save the citizens when its convenient and appropriate timing for her. Hardly heroic.

In the end, they were too afraid to approach her. Sort of like a Injustice Superman, Wanda is not going to turn herself in for a crime, she would need the Avengers now to show up and do that (or Strange.) But as we see at the very end, she hasn't learned a lesson, if anything she is digging deeper into black magic, which always has a bitter cost, to get what she wants. It is selfish.

I mean Thanos also had moments of decency and sparing people in IW. He could have broken his bargain with Strange, or outright killed people, but he also spared people when he thought it was appropriate.

My point is being a villain is not the black/white universe of morality of tradition. Wanda can be a villain that shows mercy, understanding and even love.

A well written villain always sees themselves as doing the right thing, the problem is they have a selfish bias and blindness, that makes their solutions harmful to those around them. Thanos, Killmonger and even Wanda can all fall into this bucket.

The first question you need to ask yourself is Wanda using her powers to help people, or to use for selfish ambitions.

 

[youbastards]

Hopefully the Quicksilver fake out was the final nail in the coffin of bringing any aspect of the Fox movies into MCU.

 

[Dr.Mirakle32]

Hopefully the Quicksilver fake out was the final nail in the coffin of bringing any aspect of the Fox movies into MCU.

*Any* aspect? They’re literally producing Deadpool 3.
I hate this hyperbole. Marvel has a right to build their mutant universe from the ground up, but there’s no reason they can’t cherry pick what worked best from the earlier franchise. Nobody complained about JK Simmons coming back as Jameson, and it seems like a vocal number of fans much prefer Evan Peters’ Quicksilver to the MCU’s, and would have been happy with him sticking around in some capacity.

Who wouldn’t want to see Fassbender back as a rebooted Magneto? Give him the long white hair and update his backstory, and audiences would accept it.

 

[The Buffinator]

She choked them first. Her reaction wasn't to help or protect them but to punish them. Fortunately she still had a shred of humanity left, and started to spare them (but prevented them from leaving when she saw Vision and her imaginary kids suffering, and decided to put the hex back up to keep them trapped.) Wanda will save the citizens when its convenient and appropriate timing for her. Hardly heroic.

In the end, they were too afraid to approach her. Sort of like a Injustice Superman, Wanda is not going to turn herself in for a crime, she would need the Avengers now to show up and do that (or Strange.) But as we see at the very end, she hasn't learned a lesson, if anything she is digging deeper into black magic, which always has a bitter cost, to get what she wants. It is selfish.

I mean Thanos also had moments of decency and sparing people in IW. He could have broken his bargain with Strange, or outright killed people, but he also spared people when he thought it was appropriate.

My point is being a villain is not the black/white universe of morality of tradition. Wanda can be a villain that shows mercy, understanding and even love.

A well written villain always sees themselves as doing the right thing, the problem is they have a selfish bias and blindness, that makes their solutions harmful to those around them. Thanos, Killmonger and even Wanda can all fall into this bucket.

The first question you need to ask yourself is Wanda using her powers to help people, or to use for selfish ambitions.

I didn't see the choking as punishing them but more the result of a reflex reaction to feeling overwhelmed by all of their grief/anger converging on her at once. And their not escaping when she then lifted the Hex wasn't due to her purposely preventing their departure but rather as a consequence of her saving her family. So she wasn't quite ready for her fantasy family to disintegrate before her very eyes - The Westview folks had survived their "torture" for what, 8-1/2 episodes? Another 20 minutes wasn't going to hurt them (especially anyone with a Westview Therapy practice - ha!). And I never said she was heroic, I said she wasn't a full-on villain. Not the same thing!

At the end she also told Monica that she didn't fully understand the power inside her but intended to figure it out. And while the Darkhold is a source of black magic it also holds the prophecies about The Scarlet Witch, so citing her studying it as proof she hasn't learned her lesson may be off-base, as it may be the necessary evil she needs to understand who & what she truly is.

 

[hellgrammite00]

Another 20 minutes wasn't going to hurt them (especially anyone with a Westview Therapy practice - ha!).

I mean geez. 20 days or 20 minutes, I am just going to say locking children up in their basement and feeding them nightmare visions smells like bulletin board super-villain material. Even if you want to argue she wasn't fully aware of that (debatable), when she did find out, she should have stopped everything right then and there. But her argument was NOT that she didn't know, but she argued that their lives are better now that they were under her totalitarian heal is was her explanation. 'Your all fine, I have kept you safe in here, your at peace.' To Wanda, people having free-will is liability.

Vision is obviously heroic. The whole time he could not hide from the truth, his only motive being to put the people above his own needs at all times. Even his family was expandable to protect the people, he never hesitated.

I get it, its a TV show. Maybe she isn't a full on classic Villain. But we are getting to the point, perhaps rightly so, that we can't call anybody a villain.

If that is the case, I can see that argument. Thanos, Killmonger and Wanda are not 'full' villains, but sympathetic figures who we might say are misguided by their personal struggles and experiences. I don't know what you call that exactly. I guess super-villain with a good backstory and character development is what I would normally call it, but that might be inaccurate in modern times.