Man of Steel (SPOILERS)

[Darth Caedus]

Re: The Man of Steel

I disagree with this statement because Superman has many different weaknesses. The most well known is just Kryptonite but in reality one of the greatest things about S:TAS was him discovering his weaknesses as he went through his journey and it keeps it really interesting for the audiences as well. Superman is a god like character so his villains have to be as well in a certain respect. Kryptonite levels the playing field for characters like Lex who really have no strengths but there are many of Superman's own "Rogues" who could do just fine against him without bringing in the rock yet again.

Along with that, Superman may be "almost" invincible physically, but he's VERY suseptible mentally/emotionally. For Kal-El, he's a God amongst men, but Clark Kent is very human and vulnerable.

 

[Krypto]

Re: The Man of Steel

Actually most of the folks who have been pitching scripts, Millar, Morrison, etc to WB about Superman have all been pitching Origins. Now its a reboot so you have imagine that SR would be null and void and one would assume it'd be easier for audiences to understand without Singer or Routh but I guess we'll wait and see. Early rumors are that WB wants dramatic talent similar to what Marvel has done with Norton and RDJ and also wants Star Power attached to it.....

The Donner film, Superman: The Animated Series, and eight seasons of Smallville...I think we've had enough with the origin story on film and television. And nobody will do it better than Donner, so there's really not much of a point. There's a reason WB doesn't want to listen to Millar or Morrison.

We might see an origin done like The Incredible Hulk where its completely done in the credits but if we see a continuation of Superman Returns I'll eat my hat. I liked Routh as Supes and didn't much care for Singer but was willing to them a chance. I have a strong feeling that neither of them will be included. Singer is still written as being attached simply for the fact there isn't any real news to replace "Man of Steel" with. Once a writer is hired and drafts a script, you'll see a director and some greenlights and then we can really discuss the next film.

I still think at the very least Routh will be back and likely Singer in some capacity. It won't be a direct reboot. WB doesn't want that. They just want a more action-oriented "fun" summer film. We know Singer can deliver that. X2 is one of the best sci-fi/fantasy films of the last decade. He just likes to set everything up in the first film and blow the hinges off the door with the second. My gut feeling is that they'll give Singer another shot based on his track record and love of the material. He's been signed to direct since October of 2006.

 

[The Mike]

Re: The Man of Steel

All of those contracts could be null and void. Like I said when they secure a writer then they'll spill the beans. There is a reason that Singer hasn't said a word since WB confirmed a reboot. He himself probably is unaware of his involvement, they could keep him on as a producer or cut him out completely. Everyone who was involved who is still speaking is questionable in their comments....no one knows If Millar isn't just full of hot air like usual then we'll hear the announcement as predicted by year's end.

 

[Darklord Dave]

Re: The Man of Steel

I still think at the very least Routh will be back and likely Singer in some capacity. It won't be a direct reboot. WB doesn't want that. They just want a more action-oriented "fun" summer film. We know Singer can deliver that. X2 is one of the best sci-fi/fantasy films of the last decade. He just likes to set everything up in the first film and blow the hinges off the door with the second. My gut feeling is that they'll give Singer another shot based on his track record and love of the material. He's been signed to direct since October of 2006.

Well, my interpretation of what Robinov said - "we're disappointed with SR and we're going to reboot Superman". Nothing he said made me think that Singer would return in any way, shape or form nor would they keep the continuity from the Donner/SR films.

 

[**16k**]

Re: The Man of Steel

I don't know if Jon Peters is still in any way involved in decision making right now, but one of the reasons I'm so pessimistic is that at the time of the scenarii preceding Superman Returns, he was one of the guys insisting on the black latex suit, a strictly non-flying Superman, and I hope you haven't forgotten the one when they wanted to kill Supes in a Doomsday inspired flick to bring him back as a child born of Lois Lane that would have grown at accelerated rate! Now, tell me I shouldn't be afraid...

 

[Krypto]

Re: The Man of Steel

All of those contracts could be null and void. Like I said when they secure a writer then they'll spill the beans. There is a reason that Singer hasn't said a word since WB confirmed a reboot. He himself probably is unaware of his involvement, they could keep him on as a producer or cut him out completely. Everyone who was involved who is still speaking is questionable in their comments....no one knows If Millar isn't just full of hot air like usual then we'll hear the announcement as predicted by year's end.

Millar's full of it. He's been doing this attention grabbing stuff for years about how awesome his Superman film would be.

Well, my interpretation of what Robinov said - "we're disappointed with SR and we're going to reboot Superman". Nothing he said made me think that Singer would return in any way, shape or form nor would they keep the continuity from the Donner/SR films.

And that's the exact opposite of what he said in late 2006. Robinov said the following near the end of the summer:

"Superman Returns will be profitable for us. We would have liked it to have made more money, but it reintroduced the character in a great way and was a good launching pad for the next picture."

A reboot could mean a lot of things. It could mean a change of style, meaning a more action oriented picture or it could mean a total reboot, which I don't think is going to happen. That he said nothing of Singer or Routh tells me that they're still going to be involved. It took over a decade to get the film going and Singer made a reverent and intelligent Superman film that wasn't cartoony or silly or campy and it was successful, perhaps not as much as some predicted or as much as WB wanted, but it nevertheless grossed more than the other WB superhero reboot, Batman Begins. To not give Singer a chance is purely illogical, especially with the knowledge that he can deliver a rousing and robust sequel packed with action and told intelligently and with class. If WB does go through with a total reboot, telling the origin again, it will be years and years before we see another film. Writers and directors will come and go. Preposterous ideas like black latex suits and the "S" shield forming daggers that fly through the air and gay robots and not seeing Superman flying will come and go and nothing will happen and no one will get a good handle on it like the pure take that Singer and Donner had on the character. When they come back to the classic Superman that doesn't reinvent the wheel or change the dynamic, like Returns, they'll get another film. Unless they just give Singer the shot he needs to surprise the hell out of everyone.

But on a personal level, if a semi-sequel with Singer and Routh doesn't happen, at least I got the logical continuation of Donner's film that I always desired. Superman Returns is, in my opinion, the best live action Superman I've yet to see (and I've seen everything Superman related), and I'm just thankful to have been able to have seen him fly on the big screen again in such high class.

 

[Darklord Dave]

Re: The Man of Steel

And that's the exact opposite of what he said in late 2006. Robinov said the following near the end of the summer:

"Superman Returns will be profitable for us. We would have liked it to have made more money, but it reintroduced the character in a great way and was a good launching pad for the next picture."

A reboot could mean a lot of things. It could mean a change of style, meaning a more action oriented picture or it could mean a total reboot, which I don't think is going to happen. That he said nothing of Singer or Routh tells me that they're still going to be involved.

I think you're reading your own desires into it. A reboot means they aren't going with the continuity established with SR, just as the Batman reboot meant they weren't going with the continuity or creative team from the Burton/Schumacher Batman films.

 

[The Mike]

Re: The Man of Steel

A reboot is a complete start from scratch which is why I know they'll do an origin piece it just may not be focused in the film but in credits like The Incredible Hulk. If Singer is involved he'll have to go a brand new route which is why I have my doubts. I don't think any artist would gladly stay on after being told their last work was a disappointment. Hollywood is cooky though and if offered he might hang on to see if he can redeem himself but I think in order not to confuse the general movie going populus who really fueled TDK's success because so many new fans were brought into it, they'll recast the entire project to make it look visually and artistically different.

 

[Krypto]

Re: The Man of Steel

I think you're reading your own desires into it. A reboot means they aren't going with the continuity established with SR, just as the Batman reboot meant they weren't going with the continuity or creative team from the Burton/Schumacher Batman films.

Nah, I'm just optimistic.

There's just no need for a reboot. Superman Returns wasn't Batman & Robin. It was well received and made a profit for WB, like Batman Begins. Perhaps Batman Begins was more popular, but by starting over from scratch, they had an advantage over Singer's film, which was trying to get the franchise back on track without reinvention.

 

[The Mike]

Re: The Man of Steel

Here is the thing you are saying there is no need for a reboot on your own thoughts on the projects which is fine but the fact of that matter is that WB already confirmed a reboot. What you want and what will "most likely" and I say most likely because we have been surprised before will differ.

Its obvious you have a love for the character Krypto like most of us in this thread, giving in to the idea of a reboot for a second where would you like the new film to go?

 

[Krypto]

Re: The Man of Steel

If history has shown us anything, it's that nothing is "confirmed" with a Superman film until the camera literally begins rolling.

James Marsden shares his thoughts on the Superman Returns:

https://splashpage.mtv.com/2008/09/22/james-marsden-explains-why-superman-returns-didnt-fly/

Smart guy. I ultimately think that it was the release date so close to Dead Man's Chest that hurt Returns as far as the box office was concerned. That's WB's fault, not Singer, who made a literal and intelligent film that most audiences seemed to enjoy at least moderately. Superman doesn't need to be changed or to be darkened, he just needs to be sold to the masses better. The marketing campaign for Returns was pretty weak. They didn't utilize the Williams theme like they should have and the release date was too close to Pirates. If anything, the film should have been a December release, given that it was a more character driven epic, as opposed to an assault of non-stop action.

 

[Krypto]

Re: The Man of Steel

Its obvious you have a love for the character Krypto like most of us in this thread, giving in to the idea of a reboot for a second where would you like the new film to go?

You know, I'm not really sure. It's hard for me to fathom another on-screen Superman that isn't in the Donner league which really had such an impact that it's hard to distinguish the Donner version from the main idology of the character over the last few decades.

BUT...perhaps something that takes Superman off-world, like in the mid-80's arc "Exile." Something really out there wear perhaps Superman would be defenseless without his powers. If you're going to reboot the series, do it right. Don't just imitate Batman, do something unique and creative and original.

 

[OSCORP]

Re: The Man of Steel

If history has shown us anything, it's that nothing is "confirmed" with a Superman film until the camera literally begins rolling.

James Marsden shares his thoughts on the Superman Returns:

https://splashpage.mtv.com/2008/09/22/james-marsden-explains-why-superman-returns-didnt-fly/

Smart guy. I ultimately think that it was the release date so close to Dead Man's Chest that hurt Returns as far as the box office was concerned. That's WB's fault, not Singer, who made a literal and intelligent film that most audiences seemed to enjoy at least moderately. Superman doesn't need to be changed or to be darkened, he just needs to be sold to the masses better. The marketing campaign for Returns was pretty weak. They didn't utilize the Williams theme like they should have and the release date was too close to Pirates. If anything, the film should have been a December release, given that it was a more character driven epic, as opposed to an assault of non-stop action.

I agree with james.....I blame it on the kids as well.

SR was better than POTC IMO.

 

[Dr.FeelGood]

Re: The Man of Steel

I think its time we all took a lung full of air and came to the realisation....

Its NOT what the fans want that truely matters, its what 1) Is the current trend (Reboot), 2) what will put backsides on seats and 3) what will make the producers a mountain full of money the quickest. And that...sadly, isnt a good story (in most cases). Its mindless action, preferably for a good 2 hours of a 2 and a half hour film ...and even then expect the 30 minutes of story to be lack-luster.

Personally, with the success of TDK, i can imagine now a superman in a dark suit, in a DARK city, with a cape and a cowl, fighting a madman in purple, with scars on his face, green hair and a tendancy to blow stuff up...who just happens to be called Lex Luthor.

Why?

Because it made the studio's alot of money before, and thus...will be re-used again in as many formats as possible.

There is very little originality coming from the studio's of late, just a case of "hey this worked before, lets do it again".

After Nolans third (and hopefully final) Batman film....and i say hopefully as i dont want to see the studio's slowly degrade what has been a good duo so far, expect ANOTHER reboot. And then another...and Another...in the hopes of getting the same pull as what Nolan achieved.

 

[Krypto]

Re: The Man of Steel

I agree with james.....I blame it on the kids as well.

SR was better than POTC IMO.

Oh without a doubt. Superman Returns had things that good movies traditionally are supposed to have - a coherent plot, character development, good dialogue, exciting action sequences, and an internal reality and rules that are plausible within that particular filmic world. Dead Man's Chest had none of that as far as I'm concerned. They were clearly making the story up as they went along, the action sequences were silly without a hint of danger or suspense, and the characters...well...let's just say that the only character who could muscle up any sympathy had tentacles and wasn't a live action actor.

But I don't think WB should be dissuaded just because Returns didn't make $300 million domestic or $500 million worldwide. Given the release date and sub par marketing campaign, it did quite well. Look at X3 for example. It opened with $102 million with no competition and fell 67% in its second weekend with no major direct competition. Returns opened with $52 million and fell 59% against the then biggest opening of all time and held on quite good ending with $200 million. In the end, it did make more worldwide than Batman Begins and if Batman can get a greenlight for a sequel with $371 million, then Superman should be given the same opportunity. It was wrong of them to expect a huge gross out of Superman Returns after the franchise being dormant for two decades with the last bomb, Quest for Peace, just like they couldn't expect Batman Begins to have a huge gross given that the last film killed the franchise in 1997. They've always had the Man of Steel set up for a budget of around $150-$160 million, which would result in a lower risk on their part to just let Singer make his film. Surely an action-oriented Superman epic with a good release date and strong marketing campaign like Dark Knight's would pull in north of $200 million without much trouble.

 

[gdb]

Re: The Man of Steel

Every generation wants their stories to be fresh, as if told for the first time and told with the storytelling tailored to them.

That was the main thing Singer had to do with Superman Returns. He wanted it to also play as a sequel to the Donner films, that's fine -- hey, I really liked the movie but I saw the originals when they first played in the theatre so in a way it doesn't matter if I liked it. But job number one was to speak to the modern audience and get them excited about Superman and that part of his job he screwed up.

 

[Krypto]

Re: The Man of Steel

Every generation wants their stories to be fresh, as if told for the first time and told with the storytelling tailored to them.

That was the main thing Singer had to do with Superman Returns. He wanted it to also play as a sequel to the Donner films, that's fine -- hey, I really liked the movie but I saw the originals when they first played in the theatre so in a way it doesn't matter if I liked it. But job number one was to speak to the modern audience and get them excited about Superman and that part of his job he screwed up.

Singer's film was classic, somewhat whimsical (less so than Donner's, anyway), yet modern in its social and political commentary (mainly about the media's moral responsibility and spiritual overtones) and of course in the design of the film, it was modern, yet it also harkened back to an almost Flesicher-era Metropolis with the architecture, while still maintaining a modern feel. It was a pure and classic take on the character. Just because he didn't change the character from the ground up and modernize him into something Superman's not doesn't mean he didn't modernize the universe and the character as much as he felt necessary.

 

[wofford29]

Re: The Man of Steel

Exactly. Something as simple as a man walking around Gotham wearing a bomber jacket with the tag "Jordan" would be enough to give a connection without destroying Nolan's vision.

The idea of a hint in a Nolan film is completely dead if this is legit....

https://news.yahoo.com/s/eonline/20080925/en_top_eo/30975

 

[Sachiel]

Re: The Man of Steel

That was the main thing Singer had to do with Superman Returns. He wanted it to also play as a sequel to the Donner films, that's fine

That turned me off the film. Also Lex "evil real estate agent" Luthor.

This is why I'd love to see superhero films treated more like comic titles. They should have two or three different continuities going with each hero, each with different actors playing the roles.

That way we could see the Fleischer Supes, the Dark Knight Returns, Kingdom Come, etc.

People already get confused over the Batman movies.

This would be beyond overkill!

 

[The Mike]

Re: The Man of Steel

The idea of a hint in a Nolan film is completely dead if this is legit....

https://news.yahoo.com/s/eonline/20080925/en_top_eo/30975

Actually it isn't. WB/DC has said that the Justice League movie would be in a different continuity than the Batman films or upcoming Superman, Green Lantern and even Flash films. JL:M is still using a John Stewart Green Lantern not Hal like the GL film. The strange thing is when they talked about the reboot they said that any Justice League film would be put on hold, yet George Miller seems to be functioning as normal pushing forward with his film and cast without signs of slowing.

WB/DC is gambling that general audiences will be able to separate the films and their specific "universes" but judging by the difficulty of the general populus in regards of the Incredible Hulk film and being able to separate that from the 2003 version or even the doubts that people will be able to separate Superman Returns from the next incarnation, this might be a troubling thing and confusing for some. Its already troublesome that Batman will be younger than Bruce in BB and functioning fully as Batman in the first place.