Man of Steel (SPOILERS)

[wofford29]

Re: The Man of Steel

Having a reporter named Lois Lane show up in a Nolan Batman film wouldn't work for Nolan because Nolan is creating his own vision of Gotham, not one that the WB wants or one that fits in the DC Universe, so no even if it's just a name drop you'd be droping a name from someone from a city that couldn't be grounded in reality into a city Nolan is trying to make believable. After the success of The Dark Knight you can bet your bottom dollar that if Nolan agrees to a third film, what Nolan wants, Nolan is going to get and he surely isn't going to let a studio give him direction on his vision just to allude to something that may or may not ever happen.

 

[Darklord Dave]

Re: The Man of Steel

It seems that Supermax (the Green Arrow movie) is being very grounded in reality too. I could see an after credits scene in Nolan's 3rd film where Oliver Queen seeks out Bruce to offer him a job.

 

[The Mike]

Re: The Man of Steel

you'd be droping a name from someone from a city that couldn't be grounded in reality into a city Nolan is trying to make believable.

You are mixing Nolan's Gotham with Metropolis's past. You have to remember one thing, the future of Superman, the future of Metropolis isn't written yet. You place Nolan shunning something that doesn't exist and trust me if WB/DC wants placement it'll happen. Spider-man 2 was a wild success for its time and that didn't stop Marvel/Sony with screwing with Raimi's vision to the point where he can't walk away now because he feels like his vision was molested. Studios are Studios and while they are all grinning and praising Nolan for TDK, in the end they are looking for the next paycheck not Nolan's idea. That has always been the fundamental differences between the artist and the studio duality.

Like Dave said, I could see Oliver Queen who essentially is a Batmanesque character showing up in an after the credit scene or even taking a meeting in passing with Lucius Fox passing Bruce (depending on when the Supermax film will take place in relation to the Batman film). I could even picture something as simple as Carol Ferris leaving Bruce's office saying goodbye to Lucius and Bruce after signing a deal with Wayne Enterprises.

Remember this, Nolan's vision simply excludes a flying Superman cameo or Martian Manhunter walking around all green and in glory. What it doesn't do is stop Nolan from putting a reality spin on any cameos requested. He took Scarecrow from a goofy, campy Batman villain to a great cameo. Nothing is out of the realms of possibilities really.

 

[Darklord Dave]

Re: The Man of Steel

Remember this, Nolan's vision simply excludes a flying Superman cameo or Martian Manhunter walking around all green and in glory. What it doesn't do is stop Nolan from putting a reality spin on any cameos requested. He took Scarecrow from a goofy, campy Batman villain to a great cameo. Nothing is out of the realms of possibilities really.

And even Smallville eschews either of those things too. Clark doesn't fly and Jonn J'onzz isn't green. His eyes glow red every now and then.

 

[The Mike]

Re: The Man of Steel

Exactly. Something as simple as a man walking around Gotham wearing a bomber jacket with the tag "Jordan" would be enough to give a connection without destroying Nolan's vision.

 

[TheObsoleteMan]

Re: The Man of Steel

If Nolan's movies can have stuff like secret ninja societies, Scarecrow and Two-Face, I don't see why they can't have some of the more fantastical elements of other DC stuff.

 

[Krypto]

Re: The Man of Steel

IMO, Singer and Routh will be back for a semi-sequel/reboot with a more Wrath of Khan feel. The Star Trek comparison is easy. TMP was a slow and character oriented picture that was quite beautiful. The same could be said for Superman Returns. It was intended to get Superman back on track and I feel that WB will no doubt bring Singer and Routh back. It would be stupid to walk away from what they've set up. Afterall, Superman Returns made more than Batman Begins ($391m vs. $371m) and both were big performers on DVD as rentals and sellers. Although it cost about $50 million more than Begins ($204m vs. $150m), Returns was a bigger project with hundreds more expensive effects shots.

I sincerely hope Robinov doesn't pull a Jon Peters and get scared and hire Abrams or Ratner to make the next one where half the movie takes place on Naboo, which doesn't blow up, and Luthor turns out to be a kung-fu-fighting Kryptonian. That would be horrendous on so many levels. I'm not the biggest fan of much of anything Abrams has done, but his Superman script was the last nail in the coffin for me.

 

[Darklord Dave]

Re: The Man of Steel

IMO, Singer and Routh will be back for a semi-sequel/reboot with a more Wrath of Khan feel. The Star Trek comparison is easy. TMP was a slow and character oriented picture that was quite beautiful. The same could be said for Superman Returns. It was intended to get Superman back on track and I feel that WB will no doubt bring Singer and Routh back. It would be stupid to walk away from what they've set up. Afterall, Superman Returns made more than Batman Begins ($391m vs. $371m) and both were big performers on DVD as rentals and sellers. Although it cost about $50 million more than Begins ($204m vs. $150m), Returns was a bigger project with hundreds more expensive effects shots.

I sincerely hope Robinov doesn't pull a Jon Peters and get scared and hire Abrams or Ratner to make the next one where half the movie takes place on Naboo, which doesn't blow up, and Luthor turns out to be a kung-fu-fighting Kryptonian. That would be horrendous on so many levels. I'm not the biggest fan of much of anything Abrams has done, but his Superman script was the last nail in the coffin for me.

Well, they've said they're doing a reboot and hopefully that means no Singer. I wouldn't mind if they kept Routh. Hopefully they're looking not just at financial success (and SR was a failure when compared to it's budget, just as BB was a success using the same scale) but are also looking at fan reaction. And most fans were disappointed with SR.

I didn't read Abrams script, but the description of it made it seem fresh at least, and SR was the antithesis of fresh.

 

[The Mike]

Re: The Man of Steel

Sorry Krypto, not sure if you are up on the news but WB/DC has confirmed a complete reboot not to mention that Singer just took three projects on before that announcement which meant he'd not have been available anyway and the consistent rumors that they were shopping directors.

Look for any past script to be completely thrown out. What Nolan's Batman has done was stay close to the origin story while still keeping it fresh and modern and so Superman will be taken on the same path I guarantee it. The Superman film will resemble more of Smallville then any other Superman project before it just in that vein.

 

[Krypto]

Re: The Man of Steel

Robinov's comments mean little to me as he said the exact opposite in October of 2006.

Well, they've said they're doing a reboot and hopefully that means no Singer. I wouldn't mind if they kept Routh. Hopefully they're looking not just at financial success (and SR was a failure when compared to it's budget, just as BB was a success using the same scale) but are also looking at fan reaction. And most fans were disappointed with SR.

BB didn't have 1,400+ effects shots. SR cost more because it was a bigger project. There was more experimentation involved with the film in respect to the flying rigs and effects. Nevertheless, despite the budget, the film was a success. Robinov and Horn admitted as such in late 2006. And the film did fine with audiences and critics, with grades around the B or B+ range and an RT score of 77%. The small minority of angry fanboys beside the point.

I didn't read Abrams script, but the description of it made it seem fresh at least, and SR was the antithesis of fresh.

I strongly disagree. Abrams script is a horrid piece of garbage, as well as Millar's take, which from what I've heard is so over-the-top in its religious overtones that they should get Gibson to direct it. SR was reverent and intelligent. It honored the past (not just the Donner film) and carved it's own niche and looked to the future in its own unique way. A Reboot so soon after the initial film won't work. It simply won't. Look at Hulk. The reboot made pretty much exactly what the filrst film made, despite a larger budget. WB would be better off going with a semi-sequel with a more action-oriented tone, which Singer promised from the beginning.

Sorry Krypto, not sure if you are up on the news but WB/DC has confirmed a complete reboot not to mention that Singer just took three projects on before that announcement which meant he'd not have been available anyway and the consistent rumors that they were shopping directors.

Singer has always been attached to many different projects, some he planned to direct and some not. He has a few projects as producer, but Man of Steel is still listed as his next film to be directed. Robinov didn't say Singer or Routh wouldn't be back. IMO, they'll just be going with a more action-oriented style rather than a full-on reboot with a different director and cast.

Look for any past script to be completely thrown out. What Nolan's Batman has done was stay close to the origin story while still keeping it fresh and modern and so Superman will be taken on the same path I guarantee it. The Superman film will resemble more of Smallville then any other Superman project before it just in that vein.

There's not a chance they'll do the origin again.

 

[OSCORP]

Re: The Man of Steel

I hope they go back to bright red and get rid of that AWFUL maroon. WTF!

 

[**16k**]

Re: The Man of Steel

Krayt Dragon, if you hope they go bright red, you probably didn't read what they said! The guys want to go "dark". They're so imbued in their Dark Knight success they want everything to look like it! Forget your iconic Superman, I predict a black clad Supes with a silver logo! I recently read an interview of one of the guys with an idea (funny how they all have ideas, and funny how they manage to have STUPID ideas!) saying he envisioned a three "epic" parter telling the youth, manhood and old age of Superman!!!!!

Now, just because these guys were unhappy about the money they made, they're willing to ^^^^ up a licence... It makes me SICK!!!

Sure, Superman returns had its warts, but I definitely don't want a Supermn cast in the same mold as Batman. The guys are light and dark! they should remain so. Chances are I'll boycott the monster they're creating...

 

[OSCORP]

Re: The Man of Steel

LOL

Chin up. Have some faith

 

[Krypto]

Re: The Man of Steel

Krayt Dragon, if you hope they go bright red, you probably didn't read what they said! The guys want to go "dark". They're so imbued in their Dark Knight success they want everything to look like it! Forget your iconic Superman, I predict a black clad Supes with a silver logo! I recently read an interview of one of the guys with an idea (funny how they all have ideas, and funny how they manage to have STUPID ideas!) saying he envisioned a three "epic" parter telling the youth, manhood and old age of Superman!!!!!

Now, just because these guys were unhappy about the money they made, they're willing to ^^^^ up a licence... It makes me SICK!!!

Sure, Superman returns had its warts, but I definitely don't want a Supermn cast in the same mold as Batman. The guys are light and dark! they should remain so. Chances are I'll boycott the monster they're creating...

WB won't go for a dark suit if they do decide to fully reboot the franchise. Won't happen. Fans would riot. Some of them got their panties in a twist over Singer making the "S" slightly smaller and raised. I can't imagine the outrage over a black latex suit like the one Burton was going to have Cage wear.

IMO, Routh's suit was close to perfect. The slightly smaller "S" harkens back to the Fleischer cartoons, while the darker color scheme sets it apart, giving it a more dated feel, while still feeling modern. And the longer cape seems more dignifying and regal. It fit him perfectly and it was very cinematic and most importantly, it looked like it was made of technology not of this earth. That's one of the things I respect most about Singer - his films have an internal logic within every detail that I find very rewarding.

 

[Krypto]

Re: The Man of Steel

Krayt Dragon, if you hope they go bright red, you probably didn't read what they said! The guys want to go "dark". They're so imbued in their Dark Knight success they want everything to look like it! Forget your iconic Superman, I predict a black clad Supes with a silver logo! I recently read an interview of one of the guys with an idea (funny how they all have ideas, and funny how they manage to have STUPID ideas!) saying he envisioned a three "epic" parter telling the youth, manhood and old age of Superman!!!!!

That's attention whore extraordinaire Mark Millar with his biblical telling of Superman. The first movie would take place almost entirely on Krypton, from what he said. He keeps doing interviews to try to get some push for his project, but WB has yet to give a damn about his pitch. Aside from Red Son, I haven't liked a thing the man has written.

 

[Dr.FeelGood]

Re: The Man of Steel

Lets look at this another way...and i know folks wont like it...

If they DO completely **** up the Superman franchise, we have been very lucky in the last 30 years.

We can always look back at Chris Reeve, Superman to entire generations and be proud that such a movie was made. We can look back at the Second and smile...while we try to forget the third and fourth installments in THAT generation.

Then we can look to Singer's heartfelt tribute to the Donner/Reeve Superman, trying to re-ignite the flame, and forget the third and fourth films.

I personally hope Singer gets his chance to direct "Man Of Steel", i will watch it and be thankful that a true fan of the the character, and the Reeve Superman was in charge, and not some fool out to "re-invent" a series for a quick note.

The Donner/Reeve/Routh/Singer Superman may be "fantastical", but lets grow a cell here folks...Its Superman for gods sake, you cannot make a man who is indistructable "realistic" in any way, without giving every two-bit hack a lump of green rock to beat him with.

Superman is an ICON, a "Golden Boy", what every person strives to be...perfect.

Batman is what we are all affraid to become, dark, cold...someone who see's the lengths to which a man has to go in order to get the job done.

To use an old term, they are two sides of the same coin, in this case...Harvey's coin. One is a bright "Face", the symbol of all that is good, the other is the dark, deformed face of the night, before the dawn.

I could see the Bale Batman alongside Reeve/Rouths Superman and they'd match perfectly...because thats how they have always been. One the bright torch, the other the darkness surrounding it.

 

[Krypto]

Re: The Man of Steel

Well said, blpphantom.

 

[The Mike]

Re: The Man of Steel

There's not a chance they'll do the origin again.

Actually most of the folks who have been pitching scripts, Millar, Morrison, etc to WB about Superman have all been pitching Origins. Now its a reboot so you have imagine that SR would be null and void and one would assume it'd be easier for audiences to understand without Singer or Routh but I guess we'll wait and see. Early rumors are that WB wants dramatic talent similar to what Marvel has done with Norton and RDJ and also wants Star Power attached to it.....

We might see an origin done like The Incredible Hulk where its completely done in the credits but if we see a continuation of Superman Returns I'll eat my hat. I liked Routh as Supes and didn't much care for Singer but was willing to them a chance. I have a strong feeling that neither of them will be included. Singer is still written as being attached simply for the fact there isn't any real news to replace "Man of Steel" with. Once a writer is hired and drafts a script, you'll see a director and some greenlights and then we can really discuss the next film.

 

[The Mike]

Re: The Man of Steel

Its Superman for gods sake, you cannot make a man who is indistructable "realistic" in any way, without giving every two-bit hack a lump of green rock to beat him with.

I disagree with this statement because Superman has many different weaknesses. The most well known is just Kryptonite but in reality one of the greatest things about S:TAS was him discovering his weaknesses as he went through his journey and it keeps it really interesting for the audiences as well. Superman is a god like character so his villains have to be as well in a certain respect. Kryptonite levels the playing field for characters like Lex who really have no strengths but there are many of Superman's own "Rogues" who could do just fine against him without bringing in the rock yet again.

 

[Dr.FeelGood]

Re: The Man of Steel

How many weaknesses does the common "lay" man know...Kryptonite.

People need to remember, not every person seeing the movie is a fan of the comics/cartoon as well.

Its a real pain in my trash-can, really...

I remember on one forum i used to be on, someone complained about the new Hulk movie, of how he said "Hulk Smash". The complaint was along the lines of "the hulk sounds like a moron, why cant he speak like Ed Norton"...its a case of some folks dont even know the characters within the film, let alone the subtle plotlines like weaknesses abound from a decade of cartoons not to mention almost (or is it over?) half a century of comic books.


And the sad truth is...no matter how much we try and kid ourselves...movies based on characters with MASSIVE fan-bases are very rarely made with the fans in mind. In alot of cases, its become a "yea we slap this name on it and the fan's will pay" mentality in Hollywood, then again its been like that for years.

I really do hope i'm wrong, and that they make the new Superman with the characters huge fanbase in mind, instead of the instant cashflow movie they've all come to churn out like a bad case of diarrhea.