Jedi + OT= Shogun, Jedi + PT = ?

[KatyaR]

Had a little different spin on it:
The era in which the OT was created was not yet the 'no heroes, no right/wrong' era in which the PT was created.

Late nineties-today spurns the idea that people can make better and more moral choices than the 'average' person. We as a society don't like the thought that we can be held to higher standards, or that any group or individual can/will function with noble purpose.

But hey, that's just me...I did enjoy the taste in the PT of what the Jedi could be, just was disappointed that George let his 21st century mindset leak in and ruin what should have been an awe-inspiring concept. Not to mention, in giving us such a weak group to begin with, we don't feel near the shock we should when internal instability, generated and strengthened by Palpatine, takes the Order down.

One of the reasons I'm not big into the EU. Every reference I seem to run across to Jedi is, essentially, "Yeah! They're flawed, cause perfect/powerful is boring! Huh? Good character development? Moral strength? But...they're flawed, what else do you want?" (Exaggerated only slightly)
Give me that noble and morally firm base to work from, and I *will* find those flaws interesting and humanizing. But when all there seem to be are the flaws, that doesn't appeal to me.

OK, rant over-sorry, who was next in line for the soapbox?

 

[Anzik]

PT Jedi = Shaolin Monks during the Ming dynasty.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Had a little different spin on it:
The era in which the OT was created was not yet the 'no heroes, no right/wrong' era in which the PT was created.

Late nineties-today spurns the idea that people can make better and more moral choices than the 'average' person. We as a society don't like the thought that we can be held to higher standards, or that any group or individual can/will function with noble purpose.

But hey, that's just me...I did enjoy the taste in the PT of what the Jedi could be, just was disappointed that George let his 21st century mindset leak in and ruin what should have been an awe-inspiring concept. Not to mention, in giving us such a weak group to begin with, we don't feel near the shock we should when internal instability, generated and strengthened by Palpatine, takes the Order down.

One of the reasons I'm not big into the EU. Every reference I seem to run across to Jedi is, essentially, "Yeah! They're flawed, cause perfect/powerful is boring! Huh? Good character development? Moral strength? But...they're flawed, what else do you want?" (Exaggerated only slightly)
Give me that noble and morally firm base to work from, and I *will* find those flaws interesting and humanizing. But when all there seem to be are the flaws, that doesn't appeal to me.

OK, rant over-sorry, who was next in line for the soapbox?

I agree with this 100%. In classic storytelling its okay to establish clear wrong versus right characters. The good guys, the bad guys. The Rebel cause embodies "good" in ANH while the Empire is clearly "evil". The simple imagery of Darth Vader dressed all in black trespassing the corridors of the Tantive IV sets this all up. The Jedis Yoda and Ben help develope Luke into a Jedi to clearly fight for this cause of the highest order.

In the PT the simple "good" versus "evil" imagery gives way to stuff like blockades, taxation, politics, etc. Its more of a real world view, but much less a mythology based view which is much more clean cut.

Since the storyline moved away from mythos and into a more real world situation the characters followed suit.

Personally, I blame it on Lucas trying to explain everything. Sometimes its enough to say "bad guys do bad things and good guys try to stop them." Instead we got "Jedi's are defenders of peace but they don't choose sides."

 

[The Mike]

I love all 6 films each for their own unique reasonings but in terms of the idea of the Jedi of the Old Republic that floated around the PT versions didn't really hold up. I imagined them as calm, stoic and generally peaceful, aggressive when need be but all in all the complete opposite of Palpatine and Vader. Uninterested in power or property and more interested in further understanding of the Force. The only one that came close to that IMHO is Qui-Gon Jinn played excellent by Liam Neeson. For me the PT Jedi just embodied another army, another player in the galactic struggle and lost a lot of what I imagined them like as a kid.

 

[ProgMatinee]

I love all 6 films each for their own unique reasonings but in terms of the idea of the Jedi of the Old Republic that floated around the PT versions didn't really hold up. I imagined them as calm, stoic and generally peaceful, aggressive when need be but all in all the complete opposite of Palpatine and Vader. Uninterested in power or property and more interested in further understanding of the Force. The only one that came close to that IMHO is Qui-Gon Jinn played excellent by Liam Neeson. For me the PT Jedi just embodied another army, another player in the galactic struggle and lost a lot of what I imagined them like as a kid.

A big part of that is the idea of a Jedi Council and Jedi Knights vs Jedi Masters and a Jedi school of younglings and Padawans and a Jedi library and Jedi database etc.

In the OT being a Jedi didn't mean you belonged to some organization or specific congregation. It was more of an ideology or belief system or way of life.

 

[FlyAndFight]

Regardless, Lucas with his "midichlorians" explanation destroyed the "magic" in the PT. Instead of it being a mysterious gift, he reduced the Force to an infection.

I for one refuse to accept that lame-O explanation. It would destroy the mythos found in the OT.

Luke: "My father has it... I have it... my sister has it..."

But all of this has been discussed ad-nauseum...

 

[ProgMatinee]

I wonder if Lucas went with the found orphan route instead of the virgin birth route what would have happened.

I think everything would have been so much more mythological and less clinical if Anakin was simply found floating in a stream a la Moses.

 

[Prime Clone]

I hated the midi-chlorian concept at first but have gradually come round. It makes sense that the Jedi would try to ****yze these things rather than just accept them with blind faith. The scientific approach also makes it easier to identify prospective padawans.

Plus the Darth Plagueis midi-chlorian manipulation makes it even more interesting!

 

[KatyaR]

A big part of that is the idea of a Jedi Council and Jedi Knights vs Jedi Masters and a Jedi school of younglings and Padawans and a Jedi library and Jedi database etc.

In the OT being a Jedi didn't mean you belonged to some organization or specific congregation. It was more of an ideology or belief system or way of life.

Ideally, it *should* have been both. Individual Jedi should have had the support of his/her/its brethren and a strong support system underneath it all, binding them all together with their oneness in the Force.

I imagined them as calm, stoic and generally peaceful, aggressive when need be but all in all the complete opposite of Palpatine and Vader. Uninterested in power or property and more interested in further understanding of the Force. The only one that came close to that IMHO is Qui-Gon Jinn played excellent by Liam Neeson.

Again, this is what we were shown that the Order should have been. But George couldn't leave well enough alone, couldn't believe that we could accept the original vision. Bleah.
GL is a great idea man, but should never be a scriptwriter.

 

[LOTRFan]

GL is a great idea man, but should never be a scriptwriter.

You really need to keep him from the director's chair.

... though Vader building C3PO is classic!

 

[devilof76]

I thought the PT jedi fell right off the pages of Plato's Republic. Which is why they were destroyed and the gestapo stole the show. Plato's Republic is bad for you.