Hot Toys Quality Control: Whats Goin On?

[Doctor Who]

HT Indy is $250 and no second headsculpt and the "second outfit" is a coat and scarf.

DX01 - less than two years ago - was more than $50 less and was essentially two complete figures.

Not sure we're still in "way cheaper" ville.

EB latest GoD release has pretty much the same as Indy accessory wise, plus a second head and light up filmlight thing and was $100 more.

So yes, we're in "cheaper" ville. Not "way cheaper" but still cheaper.

 

[Darklord Dave]

Firstly, I need to point of that I am not HT HK. We are just a distributor. I am relating our experiences with HT products, from a mass retailer POV. I dare say I deal with more HT products (and whatever problems) on an everyday basis than most collectors. (I am also not doing PR for HT. Why should I? It's not like they are paying me out of their own pocket. But HT is some of the more helpful companies we have dealings with. Try dealing with the Japanese and you will know what is horrible PR).

That means I actually have a first hand experience on how "widespread" these problems are.

At the end of the day, forums, FB, it just represents a small percentage of the total amount of people who collect HT. Do not mistake these voices to represent the opinions of every single collectors all over the world. I think Freaks here give themselves too much credit. Sure we have lots of members and we are surely the biggest figure related forums here but our membership pales in comparison to most social forums.

I am well aware of the Batman issue. I read through the thread. But I can't comment on that since we don't get the exclusives because we have no toy fair here. But 80% of people here have issues doesn't mean 80% of Batman sold have issues.

However I can say that Iron Mark V is the most problem free Iron Man releases so far. Defect rates are way lower than the previous Marks. They really outdone themselves on such a complex figure.

You must be mistaken in thinking that when I say that everyone is happy, I am talking about everyone is the whole world. I am not. Just saying whoever we have sold to here are happy with Indy.

As for your Indy, I am really sorry about your figure but I can only say bad luck. You have to take it up with whoever sold you the fig to sort it out just like how we will also take care of any HT product we sell that has unacceptable defects.

Let me take a ballpark figure. Let's say we sell 200 HT figs. On average we might have around 5 problematic figure. That's a small percentage by any standards. If you mutiply 200 with 10, 2000 figures sold and 50 defective figures, I still say it's a relatively small amount of problematic products. EB and Medicom has a much higher percentage of problems (EB at one point has a 50% problem rate. That means every other one sold has problems. That is one reason we stop carrying EB products, another reason being no one dares to pre-order EB stuff anymore, this is a situation where collectors really speak with their wallet).

The fact that we are still getting record breaking pre-orders for HT products just goes to show that confidence in their product is at an all time high. Sure they have some lemon (DX02 but to HT credit, they did replace every single one that we sent back within the stipulated period)

I am surprised that people are actually offended with my jab. You guys can stand thenammmagazine but not a small jab from me? I thought you guys are a lot more tougher than that.

But seriously. it's really aimed at people who took the time to actually do the Captain America proto and final product comparison with all the lines and boxes. I mean nitpicking figures at a micro level? No one will ever be happy.

I used to do that but one day I realized I am not enjoying the figure anymore but instead finding faults with it every single day. I totally lost the plot.

I am much happier now that I can enjoy the figure as a whole and not by how many thread count the fabric has.

EXCELLENT POST! I've always said that the forum complainers are just a small percentage of the total number of people who are HT (or SSC) customers.

And a dealer can actually quantify how buyers are "happy" by the number of returns they have - 2.5% seems pretty reasonable return rate in any industry.

I think you underestimate the problems that hot toys qc is generating. I own somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 hot toys figures and I have had quite a few defects over the years. It seems that the more intricate the figures get the more problems they have. It's getting to the point I don't want to deal with it anymore. I have other hobbies and interest along with work relationships etc to fill my time. I don't want to be on the phone or emailing trying to get parts etc. I don't have the time nor patience anymore. Hot toys website is a joke for handling these issues. They just ignore many of the issues. Hot toys may be best game in town but people only can tolerate so much.

I have somewhere on the order of 200 HT figures and have had perhaps 3 with any kind of problem (including the oily Bats, which really was a very, very minor issue with mine).

 

[Rorywan]

I would imagine the returns percentage on the Batman Begins Ex is a lot higher than 2.5%.

A lot higher. Seems almost everyone posting in that thread has had problems (ironically I got a perfect set).



I have a large HT collection myself, and have only started to notice more commonplace QC issues recently. Maybe you have been very lucky Dave? Or they send you specially selected sets.. ?

I also think its important to differentiate between forum complainers and genuine QC problems. I have no issue with customers showing their displeasure with faulty releases?

 

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

With the amount of problems reported, Begins Batman must be higher than 2.5% returns

 

[Lejuan]

With the amount of problems reported, Begins Batman must be higher than 2.5% returns

Bruce Wayne bats was a shocker, but very much an isolated incident in the scheme of things

 

[BlitzOUT]

A shocker yes. One to pass on- No.

One of my favorite figures

 

[comiclover47]

Doesn't Captain America look almost identical to the Proto.except for that one really horrible picture somebody posed on FB and everybody flipped out.

 

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

Hot Toys is just becoming a victim of its own success. The more popular they get, the more customers they get and thus produce lesser quality items due to making more of each item and more licenses that spread their time. They are not bad in any sense of the word, but they are steadily slipping by allowing QC errors to slip through.

Also with the level of quality they built themselves, it should be expected to have their customers grow complacent when a figure arrives and is less than what they advertised.

It doesn't help that their preview images are done in such an artsy style that they don't look that good to the naked eye.
Same principle with airbrushing and so forth in magazines, they are presenting an distorted image of what is real.

It shouldn't be a case of saying "well it won't look that good in real life" cos what were buying is not what they are showing.

I'd prefer honest views of the products in the preview images, as in what a person will see when they look at it, not as it appears through a HD camera lens with lighted backdrop and photoshopped background.

But thats more of a discussion about advertising than quality control, my point is that they are presenting a product in a perfect light, and when we see the actual product it doesn't look as good and alot of complaints stem from there.

 

[noisetrigger]

Sideshow is selling and replacing the hundreds? of faulty Batman Begins EX, I don't understand why you can't comment on that?

As for a list of rubber decaying.. Mars Attacks, Watchmen, DX02, Sarah Conner, Robocop, all the Alien/Aliens releases. And they still don't admit any kind of problem?

You keep banging on about Enterbay being worse, worse than the current Batman Begins fiasco? Lets talk about HT here, there are plenty of other threads to bash EB and medi.

The major disappointment by many with the Indy release?

I know it has made me stop pre-ordering. HT is no longer a 100% safe bet IMO. It was. I will wait and see closer to the release what problems there are if any. I feel a lot of others will do the same. End result? HT will lose a significant number of pre-orders. You mentioned earlier that some people had actually cancelled their Captain America orders after the threads here.
Shock, Horror! Thats what happens when people are disappointed with a release. You expect them to buy it anyway, to keep you guys happy?

It's supposed to work the other way round mate.

I can't comment on Batman EX because we don't have any. Hence we are not dealing with any returns of problematic figures and we are not dealing with unhappy customers.

How do you expect me to make a fair comment on a situation I do not face? It is however, a very rare situation for HT to have such an issue in a single release.

I will say this. HT will accept returns from official distributors. It is the responsibility of the distributor to send back any defective products to HT. The problem is that there are so many parallel importers all over the world and they can't actually send any back so if you buy from them and you got a bad figure, you are screwed. But SS like any official distributor will take care of you.

My only advice is buy from people who will take care of you. If you buy from people who don't that's really not HT fault.

HT has always said is that you got to deal directly with their distributor. I understand the complexity of the situation if there is no distributor in your region but that's a risk you take.

This is the same everywhere. No company will honour exchange for any defective product not bought from the official distributor.

All these talk about sculpt and all. Need I point out again that HT doesn't approved the sculpt? I think everyone really need to get that through their thick skull. It's the company who license the product who gets to decide what revisions to do and what sculpt we get in the end.

So if one is unhappy with Indy or Captain America, please bring your grievance elsewhere cause HT didn't approve the sculpt. Other than the sculpt (I still think it's the best Indy so far and I had Trevor's Indy), one must admit that Indy is a fine product overall.

Sure the price is high today but you are comparing with a releases from two years ago. HT has improved and advanced so much since.

HT doesn't actually control the market price. Over here, Indy is only 13 usd more than DX01. That's not an unreasonable increase by any standards. I know it's somehow a lot more higher elsewhere but HT has been getting really popular these days and a lot of sellers are raising their margin because of the demand.

Of course Enterbay is horrible. You don't have to deal with their crap. I do. Customer confidence is all time low with EB. No one wants to pre-order any EB products. People are still ordering HT products. We still get calls asking if we have any extra shipments of Mark V and Indy. What does that tell you?

I admit Alien Warrior is problematic,(the only Alien with problem and their first Alien) the ED209 is problematic too. Sarah Connor? No such complains here and pics I saw are due to mishandling and not leaky material.

With the Alien Warrior it is unfortunate but that happened after a few years. Same with ED209. There is no why to predict this will happen. Only thing HT can do is to prevent it on their next release (and they did cause all aliens after that are fine)

We still have Mars Attack, Rocky, and Rambo on display here and no problem with either of them so what does that say? We have retails outlets in major shopping malls. We don't operate behind a website. If any customers are unhappy, all they need to do is to walk to any of our outlets. Any feedback I get firsthand. All these forum talk are all talk to me until someone actually walks up to me with a real forum.

Please take note that I am not saying what was posted in the forums are not real but there is a fine line between an actual issue or a product not meeting unrealistic expectation and in forums, the latter is more likely.

I think I will take a break from this thread for a while. There are people who are truly unhappy with HT and until HT give them a whole new set of replacements, they will stay unhappy.

Nothing I or others say will change that. In that regard, might I suggest buying from other companies who will meet your expectations? I think it's clear what you can expect and not expect from HT these days. No one is forcing you to buy from them.


I also need to point of that no company will replace anything that start breaking down after the warranty period. (HT warranty period is 30 days from the day you bought for any figure not out of stock for more than a year).

The only way to judged whether a release is good or not is what for the actual thing. Pictures and all on the forum is not a good indication. Simply said, too many people do not know how to take a good picture. If I ever gone by most of the pics here, I would have passed on a lot of stuff.

 

[noisetrigger]

Hot Toys is just becoming a victim of its own success. The more popular they get, the more customers they get and thus produce lesser quality items due to making more of each item and more licenses that spread their time. They are not bad in any sense of the word, but they are steadily slipping by allowing QC errors to slip through.

Also with the level of quality they built themselves, it should be expected to have their customers grow complacent when a figure arrives and is less than what they advertised.

It doesn't help that their preview images are done in such an artsy style that they don't look that good to the naked eye.
Same principle with airbrushing and so forth in magazines, they are presenting an distorted image of what is real.

It shouldn't be a case of saying "well it won't look that good in real life" cos what were buying is not what they are showing.

I'd prefer honest views of the products in the preview images, as in what a person will see when they look at it, not as it appears through a HD camera lens with lighted backdrop and photoshopped background.

But thats more of a discussion about advertising than quality control, my point is that they are presenting a product in a perfect light, and when we see the actual product it doesn't look as good and alot of complaints stem from there.

Isn't this a common problem everywhere? I think it's somewhat a norm these days to expect that the final product will not look as good as advertised? It's called puffery and allowed by your supreme court.

However with HT, I always felt that their proto pics actually kinda suck in comparison with their actual thing. I mean Alice look like some kind of ladyboy in the proto but the final product is spot on her.

 

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

Isn't this a common problem everywhere? I think it's somewhat a norm these days to expect that the final product will not look as good as advertised? It's called puffery and allowed by your supreme court.

However with HT, I always felt that their proto pics actually kinda suck in comparison with their actual thing. I mean Alice look like some kind of ladyboy in the proto but the final product is spot on her.

There is no supreme court where i live, we have the old bailey instead.

It may be common, but that doesn't mean it doesn't suck to lie to consumers over what your getting, game companies do it loads showing PC footage unlabelled so console customers think that is what they are getting.

Showing Puffed pics, is basically showing something as it isn't, rather than as it is, i don't like the practice.

 

[Lejuan]

There is no supreme court where i live, we have the old bailey instead.

It may be common, but that doesn't mean it doesn't suck to lie to consumers over what your getting, game companies do it loads showing PC footage unlabelled so console customers think that is what they are getting.

Showing Puffed pics, is basically showing something as it isn't, rather than as it is, i don't like the practice.

Do you really believe that buying that brand x washing machine is going to get you laid? That selecting beer x from the supermarket fridge will make you more of a man's man than beer y?

That's marketing Nova, like it or lump it. And you vote with your wallet

 

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

Do you really believe that buying that brand x washing machine is going to get you laid? That selecting beer x from the supermarket fridge will make you more of a man's man than beer y?

That's marketing Nova, like it or lump it. And you vote with your wallet

I get it, but Hot Toys doesn't really have any competition other than Enterbay (HT nicks their plans anyway) the example you made was more about ads done for product X so they sway a customer away from buying another brand Y of the same product.

I brought it up because there is a bit more critism of final products than before cos of the increased cost leads people to be more selective and compare them to what was shown when they went up for order and how they're not often as good as advertised because the rose tinted preview images show it at it's best that the eye can't.

I did recently vote with my wallet, when the Begins Batman hit i saw that the two poses i wanted from the preview images wouldn't be do-able cos of restrictions on the costume and if i managed it, it would tear the costume over time. and it seemed less glossy and more matte than the product images... so i cancelled.

This:

And this:

 

[Rorywan]

Firstly, I would like to thank Noisetrigger for commenting at all.
I may not agree with a lot of his comments, but still, it's appreciated.

Secondly, just to be clear, I am a HUGE Hot Toys fan, I have almost every release pre-ordered or purchased. This thread wasn't intended as a "I hate HT" thread or even that I have a grievance with them.

What I wanted to discuss is the apparent (at least to me) changes that are happening right now. I still personally see a drop of standards across a multitude of licenses. But not everything. They are still producing some of their very best work to date. CR Superman and by the looks of it Pirates DX.

But I really cannot accept it that Hot Toys are not responsible for their own headsculpts as NT points out. Sure they have to get likeness approval, but they are producing the sculpts that need to get approved!

I think SideShowFreaks actually represents a very good cross section and sample of the Hot Toys customer base. Obsessives, whiners, fanboys, Mod-ers, artists and just collectors. I would like to think I am a little bit of each! But marginalizing people for being too precise or particular on a largely 1/6th scale collectors forum is just unfair and silly. Thats what its all about isn't it?
Collecting tiny, perfect incarnations of our favorite movie characters? Glass eyes, tiny belts, hand punched hair etc etc?

This is an overly precise and ____ hobby by it's very nature!

After spending any time on these boards it's easy to pick out one from another IMO. And there are some great people on here.

But, I think it's important to point out again, we are in stormy times with Hot Toys at the moment IMO. We are getting the very good with the very bad. And going back to my original statement, I can't help but feel the reason for this is over expansion, over confidence with their customers.

Batman Begins EX fiasco should never have happened, The Indy sculpt should have been better, lets hope Pirates DX is all good.

What do you guys think?

 

[Captain Britain]

Is it really QC we're talking about or is it durability? A lot of it seems to be about the materials used - how easy is it to predict how a material like rubber will behave over time? Similarly isn't it hard to predict how thin plastic can get before it becomes prone to breaking? HT go for authenticity rather than durability, but they are physically close to the factory, speak the same language and get to oversee production more than most toy companies.

The Begins EX has a multitude of problems and maybe it had a peculiarly difficult manufacturing process, but even there the thinness of the suit is not necessarily QC but a desire to facilitate greater poseability, the shiny spot on the HS down to packaging - though I admit the wonky knee and the dent in the suit are QC issues.

Hot Toys are a bunch of very talented and creative people and I guess when they hold a meeting they are likely to discuss how they can make stuff more authentic and cool rather than more durable - if they got excited about durability maybe they wouldn't be such talented people! But that said, it would be great if they gave more thought to it. These are sold as collectible figures after all and 'collectible' implies something that will last if handled properly.

 

[Rorywan]

Yes, you are right, two separate issues. To be honest what I intended to comment on was current and recent QC. Not the durability of older releases.

There seems to be a general slide? The Indy hats, sculpts,clothes, ripped seams. The Batman Begins broken foot, damaged suit, damaged head sculpt.
The Captain America broken straps, badly stitched seams etc..

Superman didn't seem to have any real issues except for some crooked logos.

 

[SAB]

All these talk about sculpt and all. Need I point out again that HT doesn't approved the sculpt? I think everyone really need to get that through their thick skull. It's the company who license the product who gets to decide what revisions to do and what sculpt we get in the end.

So if one is unhappy with Indy or Captain America, please bring your grievance elsewhere cause HT didn't approve the sculpt. Other than the sculpt (I still think it's the best Indy so far and I had Trevor's Indy), one must admit that Indy is a fine product overall.

This seems a very odd opinion.

Hot Toys make the sculpt.
The license owner with final approval is mostly going to be some business person within that film company who doesn't collect these things and probably compares them to the cheap low end toys.

"Wow, that looks kind of like Harrison Ford. Approved!"
"hmm...I've been told I'm not to approve smiling sculpts. Denied!"

I get that there may be some great sculpts Hot Toys isn't allowed to use due to license owner but a bad sculpt being approved doesn't mean Hot Toys should be free of customer complaints. It is their fault. They made it.

 

[Rorywan]

This seems a very odd opinion.

Hot Toys make the sculpt.
The license owner with final approval is mostly going to be some business person within that film company who doesn't collect these things and probably compares them to the cheap low end toys.

"Wow, that looks kind of like Harrison Ford. Approved!"
"hmm...I've been told I'm not to approve smiling sculpts. Denied!"

I get that there may be some great sculpts Hot Toys isn't allowed to use due to license owner but a bad sculpt being approved doesn't mean Hot Toys should be free of customer complaints. It is their fault. They made it.

yeah, it's a bizarre thing to say. So who is responsible?
Of course approvals are required and changes potentially made. But within that brief it is HT's responsibility to provide a high end sculpt.

 

[Lejuan]

You know from my posts that I agree with most of what Noisetrigger had to say, but the sculpt approval process couldn't possibly go like this:

License Holders: Hello Howard, what have you got for us?

Howard: Helloo Mr Lucas, ladies and gentlemen, I present three - one, two, three - versions of Harrison Ford as Indiana Jones in Raiders of the Lost Ark.

License Holders: I see you have two that look spot on like Harrison, and one that looks like... well, I'll be honest, like his stunt double.

Howard: Yes. I am honoring the time-tested product pitching technique of showing one crap one and two that we like. We are confident you will give us the go ahead to produce one or both of the ones that look a dead ringer for Ford.

License Holders: Well Steven might disagree with us, but that hack is on set right now, so it's up to us and we say... we like the other one. The stunt double.

Howard: (incredulous) Wight. So you want the one that is crap. Our fans are not going to be happy about this. We'll take a lot of whining and facebook aggression for a long, long time. JaJa got nuthin' on what's about to go down with our fans.

License Holders:Now you're out of line, Howard... we like the third one. In fact if you look out for the next remastering of Raiders, you'll see Harrison digitally altered to look exactly how your sculpt shows him here. Right down to the guyliner, I love that look. Your fans will love this sculpt then, believe me.

Howard: I hope you're wight, Mr Lucas.

License Holders: I'm right alright. Dead right. Trust me Howard, I know what the fans like.

Howard: (goddam, Arnie's going to rip me a new one over this)

 

[EVILFACE]

That's the most racist thing I've ever read.