Hot Toys : New DX TDK Joker 2.0 Coming

[a-dev]

Re: Hot Toys New DX TDK Joker 2.0 Coming?

You could always raise your debt limit.

Don't put that kind of idea into my head

 

[persuazion]

Re: Hot Toys New DX TDK Joker 2.0 Coming?

Seeing as how a single shirt costs $120+ from him... I wouldn't say it's "not hard to get right."

why is it so expensive? It cant be the size of the fabric....

 

[morphosis]

Re: Hot Toys New DX TDK Joker 2.0 Coming?

Yepp

Anyway the simple fact of the matter is that 95% of collectors probably will be more than happy with the DX01 quality of tailoring and accuracy level etc

I don't foresee spending the amount of money I've spent on Kato joker clothes on more than 2-3 centrepieces of my collection - but I am die hard Nolan Batman and that's pretty much all I collect. 99% of collectors collect a much wider variety of stuff than I do.

So long story short while most may feel spending the amount some of us have on custom joker clothes is absolutely crazy, from our perspective it is a different story.

Do I think HT can close the gap on quality between their DX01 tailoring and Kato's? Absolutely. But can they plug the gap completely? I'd say not a chance (at this stage anyway) - you really have to see the Kato clothes in hand to understand the difference - it is more than just accuracy in cut, stitching, fit etc, it is the quality of the materials and how thin the clothes are so they just feel a lot more in scale.

Anyhow I'm excited to see what HT come up with and as long as it's not just a straight rerelease I'm pretty sure I'll be getting it

That's a great point. As you know I'm like you, I only collect Nolan's Batman, so in a lot of ways paying $400+ for a suit can compare to others collectors who buy more and many different genres of characters.

For 1:6 Figures, some of those custom pieces are a work of art. Really some amazing stuff out there. I love the Kato suits they are just incredible!!! I've thought about getting custom pieces over the last few weeks but I think I'm going to stick to the officially licensed pieces for now.

 

[morphosis]

Re: Hot Toys New DX TDK Joker 2.0 Coming?

why is it so expensive? It cant be the size of the fabric....

Your paying the artist for the fabric but mostly the time it takes them to make each piece. I can imagine each suit must take several hours maybe days to complete. They don't have huge manufacturing plants making these pieces with hundreds of people working on them. Each artist I think does them all by hand if I'm not mistaken. Im a graphic designer, I charge by the hour for all my projects. I calculate ahead of time of how long it will take and then give the client a price. I imagine these custom artists do something similar and calculate the fabric + the time it takes to make each piece.

 

[vodoun]

Re: Hot Toys New DX TDK Joker 2.0 Coming?

I'm not anti-custom but I just don't see much of a worthwhile difference there for what people are paying. Its better but is it that much better? I came around to the rooted hair and some of the custom sculpts but the tailoring of the HT clothes I'm fine with. Correct obvious mistakes by all means and I know I'll be happy with the HT stock clothes.

I can't help but notice another hand made shirt by billyb was made to look bad in that comparison shot.

Your paying the artist for the fabric but mostly the time it takes them to make each piece. I can imagine each suit must take several hours maybe days to complete. They don't have huge manufacturing plants making these pieces with hundreds of people working on them. Each artist I think does them all by hand if I'm not mistaken. Im a graphic designer, I charge by the hour for all my projects. I calculate ahead of time of how long it will take and then give the client a price. I imagine these custom artists do something similar and calculate the fabric + the time it takes to make each piece.

There's only one thing that doesn't add up, another artist on here made a small run of shirts and ties on par quality. Except one was $35 for a shirt and tie and the other is $130 for a shirt alone but you had to have bought specific items for the tie to be free.

Same size of material.

The only difference here was, one shirt was ironed and the cheaper one was not. That doesn't add an extra $100. Only the ironing made the material look sharper and better than the cheaper version.

Thats why they didn't like to reveal prices. So you couldn't question things. Prices here has been such a touchy subject with customs and their artists.

 

[morphosis]

Re: Hot Toys New DX TDK Joker 2.0 Coming?

I can't help but notice another hand made shirt by billyb was made to look bad in that comparison shot.



There's only one thing that doesn't add up, another artist on here made a small run of shirts and ties on par quality. Except one was $35 for a shirt and tie and the other is $130 for a shirt alone but you had to have bought specific items for the tie to be free.

Same size of material.

The only difference here was, one shirt was ironed and the cheaper one was not. That doesn't add an extra $100. Only the ironing made the material look sharper and better than the cheaper version.

Thats why they didn't like to reveal prices. So you couldn't question things. Prices here has been such a touchy subject with customs and their artists.

Intothevoid knows better than me on what goes into each custom piece, but to me each artist has their own pricing. Just like any business. Kato might just be more expensive because he feels that is what his work is worth. That's how you run a business. I can charge someone $75/hr where there are other designers charge $25/hr. If you you needed to hire a plumber and got quotes from several plumbers, I am sure they will all give you a different cost.

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: Hot Toys New DX TDK Joker 2.0 Coming?

why is it so expensive? It cant be the size of the fabric....

Supply and demand. If some Freaks are willing to pay $1k for a 1/6 headsculpt of Joker, why wouldn't they fork over a 10th of that for a 1/6 shirt?

I'm gonna be glad when this bubble bursts though, and realistic prices actually return.

 

[vodoun]

Re: Hot Toys New DX TDK Joker 2.0 Coming?

Intothevoid knows better than me on what goes into each custom piece,

Of course he will, he's biased towards it and also owns the items. No offense to him but it's the reality. He deals with Kato's financing for the project and is pro Heath/Joker/Nolan. He's not going to have a balanced point of view. Unless somebody better comes along, thats when their views change on it.

but to me each artist has their own pricing. Just like any business. Kato might just be more expensive because he feels that is what his work is worth. That's how you run a business.

While that is true, this is also the reason why only a handful of people got onboard.
While I agree how beautiful Kato's work looks a lot have agreed (not publicly) how the prices have been ludicrous. Considering they cost a lot more than Armani suits.
Some of his projects were also followed by cease and desist notices from Triad Toys apparently.

I can charge someone $75/hr where there are other designers charge $25/hr. If you you needed to hire a plumber and got quotes from several plumbers, I am sure they will all give you a different cost.

While that is true this is also a different economy now and yet I've seen some businesses price themselves out of the market. They'd rather cut their nose off to spite their face. Hence the arrogance because of their prices.

 

[Bustajesse]

Re: Hot Toys New DX TDK Joker 2.0 Coming?

Seriously?... the lining inside the coat again, who cares??

It's hardly seen anyway... crazy collectors.

M.

I totally agree.

 

[morphosis]

Re: Hot Toys New DX TDK Joker 2.0 Coming?

Of course he will, he's biased towards it. No offense to him but it's the reality. He deals with Kato's financing for the project and is pro Heath/Joker/Nolan. He's not going to have a balanced point of view. Unless somebody better comes along, thats when their views change on it.

While that is true, this is also the reason why only a handful of people got onboard.
While I agree how beautiful Kato's work looks a lot have agreed (not publicly) how the prices have been ludicrous. Considering they cost a lot more than Armani suits.

While that is true this is also a different economy now and yet I've seen some businesses price themselves out of the market. They'd rather cut their nose off to spite their face. Hence the arrogance because of their prices.

Again, to me it all depends on how long it takes to make each suit. The limited run is probably also because they take a while to make each piece, if he took hundreds of orders it would take forever to make them all. No idea how long it takes to make 1 suit, but just say it took one 8 hour day, and the cost is $400, thats $50/hr. That seems very reasonable to me to hire an artist to do that kind of work. But they probably take longer than 1 day. Intothevoid would know.

I think Kato's work is some of the best custom work there is. If I had $400 to invest in one of his suits, I wouldn't hesitate for a second. But I only collect the officially licensed pieces and I only collect Nolan's Batman, so I save my money for the officially licensed figures.

 

[vodoun]

Re: Hot Toys New DX TDK Joker 2.0 Coming?

$400? higher...

 

[morphosis]

Re: Hot Toys New DX TDK Joker 2.0 Coming?

$400? higher...

oh yah, full suit is closer to 1k. oops!
Still, for die-hard collectors that want to spend that kind of money, then that's their choice. If not a single person bought it, then I would say he probably should lower the costs, but he fulfilled plenty of orders. So their is a market for those prices.

I still think even at close to 1k, the time and the details and everything it takes to make those suits all by himself is reasonable for hiring an artist like Kato. I agree its a lot of money, but if you want that high-end quality and accuracy, you have to pay for it.

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: Hot Toys New DX TDK Joker 2.0 Coming?

$400? higher...

 

[dano669]

Honestly if I had katos talent and people were willing to pay the kind of money they do I would not have a problem taking their money.

 

[vodoun]

Re: Hot Toys New DX TDK Joker 2.0 Coming?

oh yah, full suit is closer to 1k. oops!
Still, for die-hard collectors that want to spend that kind of money, then that's their choice. If not a single person bought it, then I would say he probably should lower the costs, but he fulfilled plenty of orders. So their is a market for those prices.

I still think even at close to 1k, the time and the details and everything it takes to make those suits all by himself is reasonable for hiring an artist like Kato.

I wouldn't mind if they would stop preaching like it's the messiah. That then feeds the ego of the artists that then becomes as bad as the customers, sadly. :/

Sadly only you've not been here long enough to know what the trend has been. Everytime a new Joker thread by Hot Toys comes out, they have to get their tools out to measure. I certainly was not the one to bring it up but it amuses me talking about it.

I agree its a lot of money, but if you want that high-end quality and accuracy, you have to pay for it.

It's close but for that price it's not that accurate. Even still to fork close to $1,000 for so called accurate clothes, it should be accurate. No if's, no buts. ¬_¬

After all the screen accurate freaks whined about the denim colour jacket for years, their so called blue jacket never turned out accurate. Plus the whinging of the red/orange lining that they claimed for years on screen accuracy was not orange in the film but off-set. So what's that... selective reading?

Then the tie, the tie turns out the same colour as Hot Toys that they too beotched for years how it was suppose to be dark.
Plus don't forget the whining of the purple like shirt that turned out violet. So for their years of beotching and moaning about screen accuracy never really turned out so accurate for the price they paid.

So your "high-end quality and accuracy, you have to pay for it." didn't get their full moneys worth. In the thread of Kato's they did moan about the colours but they didn't want to offend Kato in case he pulled the plug on it.

Yet they beotch about Hot Toys rise in prices. What's that about. Fickle people...

I should be making some more money on the side off this, I know them that well that this could be a best seller.

 

[Kameo Kid]

Re: Hot Toys New DX TDK Joker 2.0 Coming?

I wouldn't mind if they would stop preaching like it's the messiah. That then feeds the ego of the artists that then becomes as bad as the customers, sadly. :/

Sadly only you've not been here long enough to know what the trend has been. Everytime a new Joker thread by Hot Toys comes out, they have to get their tools out to measure. I certainly was not the one to bring it up but it amuses me talking about it.



It's close but for that price it's not that accurate. Even still to fork close to $1,000 for so called accurate clothes, it should be accurate. No if's, no buts. ¬_¬

After all the screen accurate freaks whined about the denim colour jacket for years, their so called blue jacket never turned out accurate. Plus the whinging of the red/orange lining that they claimed for years on screen accuracy was not orange in the film but off-set. So what's that... selective reading?

Then the tie, the tie turns out the same colour as Hot Toys that they too beotched for years how it was suppose to be dark.
Plus don't forget the whining of the purple like shirt that turned out violet. So for their years of beotching and moaning about screen accuracy never really turned out so accurate for the price they paid.

So your "high-end quality and accuracy, you have to pay for it." didn't get their full moneys worth. In the thread of Kato's they did moan about the colours but they didn't want to offend Kato in case he pulled the plug on it.

Yet they beotch about Hot Toys rise in prices. What's that about. Fickle people...

I should be making some more money on the side off this, I know them that well that this could be a best seller.

 

[morphosis]

Re: Hot Toys New DX TDK Joker 2.0 Coming?

No worries man, I understand your issues. It's true I haven't been here that long, so i don't know the history of all the custom figures. I was just giving from my perspective as an artist/designer and how I figure out my costs as I would hope would be similar to how customizers figure out their rates by the materials + time to make the pieces. If I were making custom pieces for people, thats how I would do it. But that's me. Kato and the others might have a different pricing method.

With all that said, Its one reason why I don't dabble in the customs for figures. The licensed releases are plenty accurate for myself. They will never be 100% accurate anyway, its impossible. They are 1:6 figures. Thats all, nothing more...I respect those that want them most accurate though, I can totally understand that obsession.

I have a 1:1 Batman Begins suit made by artist Bob Dullam, its like 99.9% accurate, and its the most accurate Begins suit there is. But its still can never be 100% accurate because they aren't made from the molds Linda Hemming used at her studio for Nolan's movies. But its pretty darn close as Dullam is a really great sculptor and really nailed the Begins suit. From all the costume artists making Begins suits, Dullam's is considered the most accurate.

But like the Kato suits, it was an expensive purchase, not everyone can afford it, but I wanted the most accurate Begins suit there is, so I had to pay for it. There are cheaper versions out there that are not nearly as accurate as Dullam's.

Thats why I understand the want and need for getting the most accurate pieces available.

I wouldn't mind if they would stop preaching like it's the messiah. That then feeds the ego of the artists that then becomes as bad as the customers, sadly. :/

Sadly only you've not been here long enough to know what the trend has been. Everytime a new Joker thread by Hot Toys comes out, they have to get their tools out to measure. I certainly was not the one to bring it up but it amuses me talking about it.



It's close but for that price it's not that accurate. Even still to fork close to $1,000 for so called accurate clothes, it should be accurate. No if's, no buts. ¬_¬

After all the screen accurate freaks whined about the denim colour jacket for years, their so called blue jacket never turned out accurate. Plus the whinging of the red/orange lining that they claimed for years on screen accuracy was not orange in the film but off-set. So what's that... selective reading?

Then the tie, the tie turns out the same colour as Hot Toys that they too beotched for years how it was suppose to be dark.
Plus don't forget the whining of the purple like shirt that turned out violet. So for their years of beotching and moaning about screen accuracy never really turned out so accurate for the price they paid.

So your "high-end quality and accuracy, you have to pay for it." didn't get their full moneys worth. In the thread of Kato's they did moan about the colours but they didn't want to offend Kato in case he pulled the plug on it.

Yet they beotch about Hot Toys rise in prices. What's that about. Fickle people...

I should be making some more money on the side off this, I know them that well that this could be a best seller.

 

[Devil_666]

Re: Hot Toys New DX TDK Joker 2.0 Coming?

the shirt is much lighter than that (on par with Kato).

No it is not!

Actually it is.

Not only has the shirt in that comparison pic been dyed darker, but I don't even think that's the DX shirt.

Here's a real comparison: DX (Stock) - Kato.E

 

[intothevoid]

Re: Hot Toys New DX TDK Joker 2.0 Coming?

I can't help but notice another hand made shirt by billyb was made to look bad in that comparison shot.


There's only one thing that doesn't add up, another artist on here made a small run of shirts and ties on par quality. Except one was $35 for a shirt and tie and the other is $130 for a shirt alone but you had to have bought specific items for the tie to be free.

Same size of material.

The only difference here was, one shirt was ironed and the cheaper one was not. That doesn't add an extra $100. Only the ironing made the material look sharper and better than the cheaper version.

Thats why they didn't like to reveal prices. So you couldn't question things. Prices here has been such a touchy subject with customs and their artists.

The BillyB set was in turn a nice improvement on the DX clothing without a doubt.

But there is a HUGE difference between the BillyB shirt/Tie quality and Kato's. I'll post pics when I get the chance.
- Kato shirt pattern is much more defined
- Kato shirt colour is accurate - it is not violet, might look that way in some pics
- The stitching is as good as a 1:1 shirt, no loose threads, nothing
- The collar and cuffs look and feel like 1:1 as opposed to the BillyB/DX which are flimsy
- Honestly speaking no amount of pictures are ever going to convince people who've made up their minds, but in hand, the difference is comparable to a £5 off the rack dress shirt to an Armani tailored one.

Of course he will, he's biased towards it and also owns the items. No offense to him but it's the reality. He deals with Kato's financing for the project and is pro Heath/Joker/Nolan. He's not going to have a balanced point of view. Unless somebody better comes along, thats when their views change on it.

Yes of course you will think I am biased but then again, why would I drop the cash on multiples of Kato's work if I didn't think it was worth it

Some of his projects were also followed by cease and desist notices from Triad Toys apparently.

Only one I'm aware of was the Dexter clothing - but how is that relevant to this discussion anyway?

After all the screen accurate freaks whined about the denim colour jacket for years, their so called blue jacket never turned out accurate.

That is the singular inaccuracy in the outfit (colour of the blazer). No blue fabric that was thin enough to look good in 1:6 was found.

Plus the whinging of the red/orange lining that they claimed for years on screen accuracy was not orange in the film but off-set. So what's that... selective reading?

It is burnt orange -
https://geektyrant.com/news/2011/7/28/joker-kickflips-batman-on-the-dark-knight-set.html

In some scenes it does look closer to red on screen but the real outfit is burnt orange, in any case, those of us who are getting the coat voted to have it burnt orange rather than red.

Then the tie, the tie turns out the same colour as Hot Toys that they too beotched for years how it was suppose to be dark.
Plus don't forget the whining of the purple like shirt that turned out violet. So for their years of beotching and moaning about screen accuracy never really turned out so accurate for the price they paid.

Tie colour is perfectly accurate - and I already mentioned the shirt.

So your "high-end quality and accuracy, you have to pay for it." didn't get their full moneys worth. In the thread of Kato's they did moan about the colours but they didn't want to offend Kato in case he pulled the plug on it.

Who are you to judge whether I got my money's worth? It's my money and from my perspective I got its full worth!

We argued about colours yes because depending on what scene you look at the colours of certain pieces do vary. In the end all decisions were made with consensus so not sure what your point is.

Yet they beotch about Hot Toys rise in prices. What's that about. Fickle people...

I don't have a problem with HT's price inflation. If their figs start hitting $300 though without further improvement in quality then I might.

And for the record the price of a full Kato joker outfit is $843, not $1K.

 

[galactiboy]

Re: Hot Toys New DX TDK Joker 2.0 Coming?

So wait... a limited run, custom outfit that was handmade by one person and costs $850 is going to be nicer than one on a mass-produced figure that will cost (in total) about $250