Hot Toys MMS429 - Return of the Jedi Luke Skywalker

[SilverStar17]

If this is what you think, I’m going to have to guess that you’re not too familiar with the acting process or actually done much acting in life.

Believe me, at this level, it’s far more than being a pawn to be moved about and placed by a writer/director. It is an intensely collaborative effort by an ensemble of extraordinary talents.

All actors, but especially elite professional actors, are required to pump life into the characters they play. They do this by pumping their own life energies into their performances. It is an intensely personal and intimate endeavor.

Top actors envelop and INHABIT their characters. Emotion and motivation is interpreted from the page and processed through the actor’s performance to the point where he can anticipate and improvise within the character and come off to an audience as perfectly natural and IN PLACE with who that character is. The only way to do this is to understand who the character is. To BE the character during the entire film making process.

For a man like Mark Hamill, who has not only brought life to Luke, but who has built a career around being Luke for more than 40 years, I would argue the NO ONE knows Luke Skywalker better than Mark Hamill. Because he was the life in Luke Skywalker in a VERY real way. A way that can be lost on those who have never really immersed themselves in this art form.
Mark is uniquely positioned to be sensitive to, and to call out character directions/requirements that are abhorrent to the character he has worked much of his life to create.

But Mark is also a professional. His statement is in perfect keeping with his professionalism. He took the direction he was given (and did a GREAT job at it too! Easily the performance of his career…) , and then expressed his hope that audiences would enjoy the final product.
In my interpretation, it was this Luke mis-match in terms of the character we knew vs the character we ultimately got that brought the film down. Obviously others are free to enjoy the character study Rian Johnson brought to the screen and herald it as bringing fresh air to a stale Star Wars machine….but that machine is a cherry ’67 GTO Convertible. We love the machine.

I don’t enjoy the term Luke Derangement Syndrome because it implies that people who didn’t recognize the guy with the beard and the crap attitude up on the screen (you know, people like Mark-freaking-Hamill..!) have something wrong with them, or that they don’t have the refinement necessary to appreciate the delicate genius of Rian Johnson. No true. We just rejected his interpretation of Luke in favor of the creator of the character…




Not true. Yoda NEVER gave up. He saw the demise of the Jedi, knew that the Empire was a force with which he could not deal with only himself and Ben, so he preserved himself as best he could in wait for the New Hope…

I don't need to have acting experience to have an opinion about a character that I've watched for several years. Even for the actor or actress, they're going to need to make a better argument that corroborates their position than simply just "well I play the character, so therefore my opinion is more valid than anyone else's". Citing to authority as a way to buttress your argument is never a good argument. You're going to have to make a better argument that explains why your stance is the "right" stance. This doesn't take away from or devalue their abilities as an actor or actress, as they certainly can do a craft not many people can do, but I disagree that it invariably means their opinion is the "right" stance, simply predicated on the fact that they portray the character.

It's like saying I can't disagree with an economist and that I just need to take his or her word for it simply because I don't have a degree in economics, even though I can read and comprehend the same exact charts and have an opinion on them. Simply saying you're an economist so therefore you're "right", isn't a very strong argument. Either the argument you proffer is good or it's bad, regardless of credentials.

You'd be right about Yoda, but Luke also did the same. I'm paraphrasing, but I recall Luke making a statement to Rey about if the Resistance just expects him to walk out and take on the FO with a lightsaber and he'll save the day, which to me intimated the same sentiments as what Yoda had that you're referring to.

 

[Popnfresh98]

If this is what you think, I’m going to have to guess that you’re not too familiar with the acting process or actually done much acting in life.

Believe me, at this level, it’s far more than being a pawn to be moved about and placed by a writer/director. It is an intensely collaborative effort by an ensemble of extraordinary talents.

All actors, but especially elite professional actors, are required to pump life into the characters they play. They do this by pumping their own life energies into their performances. It is an intensely personal and intimate endeavor.

Top actors envelop and INHABIT their characters. Emotion and motivation is interpreted from the page and processed through the actor’s performance to the point where he can anticipate and improvise within the character and come off to an audience as perfectly natural and IN PLACE with who that character is. The only way to do this is to understand who the character is. To BE the character during the entire film making process.

For a man like Mark Hamill, who has not only brought life to Luke, but who has built a career around being Luke for more than 40 years, I would argue the NO ONE knows Luke Skywalker better than Mark Hamill. Because he was the life in Luke Skywalker in a VERY real way. A way that can be lost on those who have never really immersed themselves in this art form.
Mark is uniquely positioned to be sensitive to, and to call out character directions/requirements that are abhorrent to the character he has worked much of his life to create.

But Mark is also a professional. His statement is in perfect keeping with his professionalism. He took the direction he was given (and did a GREAT job at it too! Easily the performance of his career…) , and then expressed his hope that audiences would enjoy the final product.
In my interpretation, it was this Luke mis-match in terms of the character we knew vs the character we ultimately got that brought the film down. Obviously others are free to enjoy the character study Rian Johnson brought to the screen and herald it as bringing fresh air to a stale Star Wars machine….but that machine is a cherry ’67 GTO Convertible. We love the machine.

I don’t enjoy the term Luke Derangement Syndrome because it implies that people who didn’t recognize the guy with the beard and the crap attitude up on the screen (you know, people like Mark-freaking-Hamill..!) have something wrong with them, or that they don’t have the refinement necessary to appreciate the delicate genius of Rian Johnson. No true. We just rejected his interpretation of Luke in favor of the creator of the character…




Not true. Yoda NEVER gave up. He saw the demise of the Jedi, knew that the Empire was a force with which he could not deal with only himself and Ben, so he preserved himself as best he could in wait for the New Hope…

You're very right about the acting process. When I was younger, I thought like that too, 'what do actors do? The director just tells them what they need to do' but I eventually found out just how much (especially if they're good) they put into it, how they completely embody it. It must have been very difficult for Mark to play Luke as he did. Or perhaps him imagining him being a completely different character isn't hyperbole.

 

[KBA]

You'd be right about Yoda, but Luke also did the same. I'm paraphrasing, but I recall Luke making a statement to Rey about if the Resistance just expects him to walk out and take on the FO with a lightsaber

Ehh, sounds wrong. Luke cut himself off to the Force and went to a planet nobody could find to die. Yoda never seems to and must have told Obi-Wan about his location for some reason.

 

[SilverStar17]

Ehh, sounds wrong. Luke cut himself off to the Force and went to a planet nobody could find to die. Yoda never seems to and must have told Obi-Wan about his location for some reason.

Yoda and Obi-Wan were the last two Jedi. Luke was the only remaining Jedi. And he must have left behind clues (a map) to his location for a reason.

 

[KBA]

Yoda and Obi-Wan were the last two Jedi. Luke was the only remaining Jedi. And he must have left behind clues (a map) to his location for a reason.

Obi-Wan and Yoda were cognizant of Luke and the potential he had as their new hope for the Jedi.

The whole map and clue thing seem like the left over bits J.J. Abrams left that Rian Johnson just went ‘nah we’re good’ to. I’d say Luke leaving clues and crumb trails in a deliberate sense undermine the direction they decided to take Luke if what you’re implying is accurate.

 

[SilverStar17]

Obi-Wan and Yoda were cognizant of Luke and the potential he had as their new hope for the Jedi.

The whole map and clue thing seem like the left over bits J.J. Abrams left that Rian Johnson just went ‘nah we’re good’ to. I’d say Luke leaving clues and crumb trails in a deliberate sense undermine the direction they decided to take Luke if what you’re implying is accurate.

And Yoda still balked at training him, just as Luke still attempted to dissuade Rey from wanting to be a Jedi even after becoming privy of her abilities.

It didn't seem like that to me, as far as Luke goes at least. You said Yoda told Obi-Wan of his location, which was a fact. I'm just also stating a fact that Luke did something similar.

 

[KBA]

It didn't seem like that to me. You said Yoda told Obi-Wan of his location, which was a fact. I'm just also stating a fact that Luke did something similar.

Seems more like conjecture man.

 

[SilverStar17]

Seems more like conjecture man.

Well if we're getting into "it seems like" (which is conjecture) rather than facts, all I can say is it didn't seem like that to me.

To each their own.

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

Ehh, sounds wrong. Luke cut himself off to the Force and went to a planet nobody could find to die. Yoda never seems to and must have told Obi-Wan about his location for some reason.

Maybe Yoda and Kenobi skyped each other like Kylo and Rey

I hope Obi Wan never caught Yoda shirtless or while he was on the hopper.

 

[KBA]

Well if we're getting into "it seems like" (which is conjecture) rather than facts, all I can say is it didn't seem like that to me.

To each their own.

Love that edit button hey?

Is it a fact Luke did something similar though? That’s what I was referring to with conjecture. We don’t know those maps were deliberately left in his hope he’d be found.

 

[QuiGonFishing]

I don't need to have acting experience to have an opinion about a character that I've watched for several years. Even for the actor or actress, they're going to need to make a better argument that corroborates their position than simply just "well I play the character, so therefore my opinion is more valid than anyone else's". Citing to authority as a way to buttress your argument is never a good argument. You're going to have to make a better argument that explains why your stance is the "right" stance. This doesn't take away from or devalue their abilities as an actor or actress, as they certainly can do a craft not many people can do, but I disagree that it invariably means their opinion is the "right" stance, simply predicated on the fact that they portray the character.

It's like saying I can't disagree with an economist and that I just need to take his or her word for it simply because I don't have a degree in economics, even though I can read and comprehend the same exact charts and have an opinion on them. Simply saying you're an economist so therefore you're "right", isn't a very strong argument. Either the argument you proffer is good or it's bad, regardless of credentials.

You'd be right about Yoda, but Luke also did the same. I'm paraphrasing, but I recall Luke making a statement to Rey about if the Resistance just expects him to walk out and take on the FO with a lightsaber and he'll save the day, which to me intimated the same sentiments as what Yoda had that you're referring to.

I don’t know why everyone stating their experience and feelings about this movie is obsessed with “Right” and “Wrong”. The entire paradigm of art is that it is subjective and just about fully in the eye of the beholder.

You are not “Right” about your interpretation of the film or any of its characters, and I am not “Wrong”. We bring as much of ourselves as individuals to the consumption of art as the players on the screen – and you are entitled to your own interpretation.

The only point I was trying to make is that it seems ridiculous to toss away the interpretation of the individual who created this role with a dismissive statement like “He’s just an Actor” who doesn’t have a powerful stake in who his character is, or should be.

We all consume this art. We all have our individual responses and feelings about what is presented…and we are entitled to those. But if you seek guidance as to what is behind a character, and why he does or does not do certain things, I’d argue that it is AT LEAST as appropriate to go to the actor himself with these questions as the writer/director. And if I’m curious about anything to do with Luke Skywalker, I’d go to Mark Hamill long before I sought out Rian Johnson.

At the end of the day, you are just as justified in throwing out Mark’s interpretation as anyone else’s as you take in this work. The question that rises above all this, however, is “Did it work for you..?” If it did, great. Another successful outing in the Star Wars saga. But if you’re like me and it was a clean miss on some important levels, particularly when it comes to the treatment of Luke, then knowing that Mark Hamill appears to be on your side of the court, feels a bit redemptive…

 

[KBA]

And Yoda still balked at training him, just as Luke still attempted to dissuade Rey from wanting to be a Jedi even after becoming privy of her abilities.

Yoda had played the Trickster to see if he was worthy of his gifts before balking. Luke simply tosses any willingness behind him from the get-go. Literally.

 

[greedo737]

I’m pretty sure that the portion of the map that Poe gets at the beginning of TFA shows how to get to the first Jedi temple. Not where Luke is. Han says everyone thinks Luke went into exile there. Luke didn’t tell anyone. They were just hoping they’d find him there. And Artoo downloaded the Empire’s database when he plugged into the first Death Star. I guess the portion with the first Jedi temple was missing?

 

[ajp4mgs]

Ehh, sounds wrong. Luke cut himself off to the Force and went to a planet nobody could find to die. Yoda never seems to and must have told Obi-Wan about his location for some reason.

I agree with you that what Luke did was different (but not by much), and that there's no evidence that Kenobi and Yoda cut themselves off from the Force, but it's hard for me to see what they both did as anything other than "quitting" on the struggle like Luke did. If they were simply waiting for the "New Hope" (as referenced earlier), when exactly were they planning to be proactive? The Empire had a Death Star. Leia was captured, and at the mercy of Vader. It was R2-D2 who actually worked his tin @ss off to get Obi-Wan involved, and just stumbled upon Luke in the process. Even then, Kenobi was willing to let Luke choose his own path (which was to stay with his aunt and uncle - until Luke saw what happened to them) and just try to get to Leia by himself.

Kenobi was willing to let the "New Hope" choose to not pursue the jedi path at all. Probably because of what happened with Anakin. And Yoda was even less interested in getting involved, having to be convinced by Kenobi to give this kid a shot. Again, probably because of what happened with Anakin. And they were justified in their disillusion. All they had worked for in the past ended with the slaughter of the jedi order, and a Dark Side power ruling the galaxy. And Luke saw the same thing happen to him years later, and was just as disillusioned by the fact the Force doesn't choose sides. Dark balances Light and vice versa. The main difference is that Luke actively chose to restart a jedi training school. He took his nephew into that project. Obi-Wan was handed Anakin. Yoda warned against Anakin being trained. They don't have that direct guilt to feel over Anakin turning. Luke feels a much more personal guilt for being the one who actually thought he could avoid the pitfalls of his predecessors and keep Ben (or anyone) from being seduced by the Dark Side. He felt guilty, but also let down by the whole idea of the Force, and the role of the Jedi. This stuff took away his father. It took away his nephew; and this time, he himself was arrogant enough to believe he could do it better. He was wrong in a tragic way.

The Dark Side is strong; maybe too strong. It's something a young and optimistic Luke (tying this thread back to ROTJ Luke) wouldn't have let himself believe. He was still fairly naive in ROTJ. But, as an older man who'd seen what he saw, the optimism couldn't be justified. The Dark Side could still prevail all over again. And this time, it might be his fault (in part). That's gotta be tough. He had way more reason to "quit" than Kenobi and Yoda. But in the end, he didn't quit. I think that's commendable given all the crap he had to see in his life.

 

[SilverStar17]

I don’t know why everyone stating their experience and feelings about this movie is obsessed with “Right” and “Wrong”. The entire paradigm of art is that it is subjective and just about fully in the eye of the beholder.

You are not “Right” about your interpretation of the film or any of its characters, and I am not “Wrong”. We bring as much of ourselves as individuals to the consumption of art as the players on the screen – and you are entitled to your own interpretation.

The only point I was trying to make is that it seems ridiculous to toss away the interpretation of the individual who created this role with a dismissive statement like “He’s just an Actor” who doesn’t have a powerful stake in who his character is, or should be.

We all consume this art. We all have our individual responses and feelings about what is presented…and we are entitled to those. But if you seek guidance as to what is behind a character, and why he does or does not do certain things, I’d argue that it is AT LEAST as appropriate to go to the actor himself with these questions as the writer/director. And if I’m curious about anything to do with Luke Skywalker, I’d go to Mark Hamill long before I sought out Rian Johnson.

At the end of the day, you are just as justified in throwing out Mark’s interpretation as anyone else’s as you take in this work. The question that rises above all this, however, is “Did it work for you..?” If it did, great. Another successful outing in the Star Wars saga. But if you’re like me and it was a clean miss on some important levels, particularly when it comes to the treatment of Luke, then knowing that Mark Hamill appears to be on your side of the court, feels a bit redemptive…

I never stated Mark's opinion is wrong (or anyone else's) nor that mine is right. I also even stated that Mark portrays the character very well, and that I'm not taking anything away from actors or actresses at all and devaluing their craft. I'm just stating that Mark's mere opinion on the way Luke was handled simply predicated on the fact that he portrayed the character, and quite well at that, doesn't axiomatically mean that the character was indeed handled "wrong". Which seems to be the buttress for many people who disagreed with the way Luke wasn't handled on why they're "right" that Luke was mishandled: because Mark Hamill said so. Simply citing to authority to make your case is a tenuous argument.

I've also stated several times that I think this was overall, a poor film. I didn't particularly care for it. However, I don't feel the handling of Luke Skywalker, was poor. I do wish though that he could have passed away in Episode IX instead of this one.

Yoda had played the Trickster to see if he was worthy of his gifts before balking. Luke simply tosses any willingness behind him from the get-go. Literally.

How do you know Luke wasn't perhaps doing the same? If he really wanted nothing to do with it ever again no matter what, he could have simply chucked the saber into the ocean.

I’m pretty sure that the portion of the map that Poe gets at the beginning of TFA shows how to get to the first Jedi temple. Not where Luke is. Han says everyone thinks Luke went into exile there. Luke didn’t tell anyone. They were just hoping they’d find him there. And Artoo downloaded the Empire’s database when he plugged into the first Death Star. I guess the portion with the first Jedi temple was missing?

It was referred to in TFA as "the map to Luke Skywalker". Not "the map to the first Jedi temple".

The Dark Side is strong; maybe too strong. It's something a young and optimistic Luke (tying this thread back to ROTJ Luke) wouldn't have let himself believe. He was still fairly naive in ROTJ. But, as an older man who'd seen what he saw, the optimism couldn't be justified. The Dark Side could still prevail all over again. And this time, it might be his fault (in part). That's gotta be tough. He had way more reason to "quit" than Kenobi and Yoda. But in the end, he didn't quit. I think that's commendable given all the crap he had to see in his life.

Luke: "I won't fail you. I'm not afraid."

Yoda: "You WILL be."

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

I never stated Mark's opinion is wrong (or anyone else's) nor that mine is right. I'm merely stating that Mark disagreeing with the way Luke was handled simply predicated on the fact that he portrayed the character, doesn't by default mean that the character was indeed handled "wrong". Which seems to be the buttress for many people who disagreed with the way Luke wasn't handled on why they're "right" that Luke was mishandled: because Mark said so. Citing to authority to make your case is a tenuous argument.

But who better than from the horse's mouth?

 

[ajp4mgs]

If we're going to start using actors as the official authority on defining who a character is, then Harrison Ford's view of Han is probably going to change some people's view on the character. And who gets to decide who Darth Vader is: James Earl Jones or David Prowse? Does Jake Lloyd get to define young Anakin? I respect Mark Hamill (even more so after his performance in TLJ), but I never considered him the ultimate source for defining who Luke Skywalker is. If there is such a source, for better or worse it would be George Lucas.

 

[SilverStar17]

But who better than from the horse's mouth?

How about yourself? Form your own opinion. Don't form one because someone else told you to have that opinion.

If we're going to start using actors as the official authority on defining who a character is, then Harrison Ford's view of Han is probably going to change some people's view on the character. And who gets to decide who Darth Vader is: James Earl Jones or David Prowse? Does Jake Lloyd get to define young Anakin? I respect Mark Hamill (even more so after his performance in TLJ), but I never considered him the ultimate source for defining who Luke Skywalker is. If there is such a source, for better or worse it would be George Lucas.

 

[Sachiel]

How do you know Luke wasn't perhaps doing the same? If he really wanted nothing to do with it ever again no matter what, he could have simply chucked the saber into the ocean.

It's right there in the movie. He was angry Rey showed up. He cut himself off from the Force. Rey says she couldn't see him in that "reach out" scene. He didn't know Han died. He straight up tells her he came to the island to DIE and that it was time for the Jedi to end. That wasn't some test for Rey. He really gave up and might have been about to "become one with the force" before she showed up. He was wearing his Jedi robe for a reason and then went back to his hermit outfit obviously annoyed at being bothered.

 

[SilverStar17]

It's right there in the movie. He was angry Rey showed up. He cut himself off from the Force. Rey says she couldn't see him in that "reach out" scene. He didn't know Han died. He straight up tells her he came to the island to DIE and that it was time for the Jedi to end. That wasn't some test for Rey. He really gave up and might have been about to "become one with the force" before she showed up. He was wearing his Jedi robe for a reason and then went back to his hermit outfit obviously annoyed at being bothered.

Yoda didn't go to Dagobah to die?