1/6 Hot Toys - BvS: Dawn of Justice - Batman

[GaryPool]

Yeah, I gathered that!

Worst one is that guy from Collider - Campea... he just won't admit when he's wrong, and keeps telling everyone he's a huge DC fan before dumping on it!

Unfortunately that's most people in blogging and reviewing. I think one of the worst places for DC bashing, regardless if they intionally mean to or not, is io9 and Katherine Trendacosta or something like that, takes any chance to report unsourced rumours to make DC sound as bad as possible. Those headlines need to be got, though!

 

[sj2106]

WB made record profits last year - all thanks to BvS, SS and Fantastic Beasts, it's safe to say the movies have been financially successful.
As for the movies themselves, I love them, really, genuinely love them - I really hate the argument about tone etc., I think that comes from people who have never read a comic book.
Super hero movies, and comic book movies in general, should be taken on an individual basis – so for example, Batman movies should be dark and violent... that's who he is... yet a movie about The Flash you'd expect to be light and fun... Plastic Man would be funny etc. etc., that's how it should be, turning every hero into a family-friendly 'fun' movie, with cutesy characters thrown in, is not what I personally want from my CBMs.

This makes perfect sense and will be reflected in many of the upcoming movies I imagine. I do think in some ways they've gone the wrong route with Superman though. I like the world he's in being darker and more sceptical, even hostile, towards him but the character himself shouldn't be so downbeat. He should be one of the heroes, like Flash and Nightwing, that loves what he does. A beacon of light in a darker world, relentlessly optimistic and not introspective the way Batman is.

I'm intrigued to see how he's handled in JL. We should get a more confident and upbeat Superman from this point on. Still hoping he gets another solo movie but this DCEU appears to be going a very Batman centric route right now. SS, Nightwing, Gotham City Sirens etc.

 

[Azrael23]

This makes perfect sense and will be reflected in many of the upcoming movies I imagine. I do think in some ways they've gone the wrong route with Superman though. I like the world he's in being darker and more sceptical, even hostile, towards him but the character himself shouldn't be so downbeat. He should be one of the heroes, like Flash and Nightwing, that loves what he does. A beacon of light in a darker world, relentlessly optimistic and not introspective the way Batman is.

I'm intrigued to see how he's handled in JL. We should get a more confident and upbeat Superman from this point on. Still hoping he gets another solo movie but this DCEU appears to be going a very Batman centric route right now. SS, Nightwing, Gotham City Sirens etc.

Personally I believe Supes potential optimism should be more of a gradual process. I believe in the wait and see approach
and to allow the story to run its course as oppose to being given everything now in regards to the character, particularly when
this was merely the second film within the DCEU. Supes wary disposition in a world divided by his existence despite his heroism
makes sense within the context of the story.

I believe Supes disposition going forward will sync with how humanity overall sees him as they've finally embraced him
due to his self less sacrifice. I also believe that his death and rebirth will likely play a key role in how idealistically optimistic
he becomes throughout the series.

 

[SilverStar17]

Personally I believe Supes potential optimism should be more of a gradual process. I believe in the wait and see approach
and to allow the story to run its course as oppose to being given everything now in regards to the character, particularly when
this was merely the second film within the DCEU. Supes wary disposition in a world divided by his existence despite his heroism
makes sense within the context of the story.

I believe Supes disposition going forward will sync with how humanity overall sees him as they've finally embraced him
due to his self less sacrifice. I also believe that his death and rebirth will likely play a key role in how idealistically optimistic
he becomes throughout the series.

My sentiments also.

 

[Gipetto0812]

Personally I believe Supes potential optimism should be more of a gradual process. I believe in the wait and see approach
and to allow the story to run its course as oppose to being given everything now in regards to the character, particularly when
this was merely the second film within the DCEU. Supes wary disposition in a world divided by his existence despite his heroism
makes sense within the context of the story.

I believe Supes disposition going forward will sync with how humanity overall sees him as they've finally embraced him
due to his self less sacrifice. I also believe that his death and rebirth will likely play a key role in how idealistically optimistic
he becomes throughout the series.

very well put!

 

[snakeeyes171]

Personally I believe Supes potential optimism should be more of a gradual process. I believe in the wait and see approach
and to allow the story to run its course as oppose to being given everything now in regards to the character, particularly when
this was merely the second film within the DCEU. Supes wary disposition in a world divided by his existence despite his heroism
makes sense within the context of the story.

I believe Supes disposition going forward will sync with how humanity overall sees him as they've finally embraced him
due to his self less sacrifice. I also believe that his death and rebirth will likely play a key role in how idealistically optimistic
he becomes throughout the series.

well spoken

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Thanks!

Regarding your comment of WB struggling to get the DCEU right, it depends on what your definition of "right" is in this case. How you personally preferred to see the characters portrayed or the tone of the universe in general according to what you feel is "right", or how the films are performing at the box office? If the latter, then I wouldn't say they're doing anything wrong because the films are making money and the performances of the actors and actresses for their titular characters, Affleck in particular, have been met with mostly praise. At this stage in the game when compared (the dreaded comparison) with the MCU, I believe the DCEU films have made more money and the films have been stronger. The latter is just my opinion though.

All good points! For me it's how the characters in the DCEU have been portrayed thus far. It's also a matter of how the characters were portrayed over the years prior. There's a lot of baggage that comes with that. I don't think most people were expecting what we got with Superman's portrayal in the DCEU. And I'm guilty of this. However I can see where they're going with the character, I just don't feel it's payed off just yet. His death was rushed, but that's just me. I just have to be patient.

With Batman it was a little different. I feel like people are willing to give him more leeway because of how he's been portrayed in films. Save for animation like BTAS, Nolan was the first to introduce Batman's virtue of no killing in the Batman films. At the same time everything with regards to Batman in BVS was spot on, save for the extra edge and violence he was given which worked well for what Zack Snyder was trying to accomplish with the character.

Personally I believe Supes potential optimism should be more of a gradual process. I believe in the wait and see approach
and to allow the story to run its course as oppose to being given everything now in regards to the character, particularly when
this was merely the second film within the DCEU. Supes wary disposition in a world divided by his existence despite his heroism
makes sense within the context of the story.

I believe Supes disposition going forward will sync with how humanity overall sees him as they've finally embraced him
due to his self less sacrifice. I also believe that his death and rebirth will likely play a key role in how idealistically optimistic
he becomes throughout the series.

YESSS!!!!

 

[sj2106]

Not really disagreeing with any of you but I just feel they went just a touch too far in making Superman more like Batman. Obviously they want to get away from the Reeve portrayal. Superman Returns showed what a disaster simply paying homage to that was, but he could be a little less less brooding. Didn't he have less than 50 lines in BvS? I'd prefer him be a little more vocal.

Obviously not everyone will agree but I thought Snyder's Batman was spot on. I like the more brutal Batman, cynical and close to the edge. After so many origin stories it was cool to see one of these heroes at the veteran stage of their career. Will we ever get to see a Spider Man that isn't a high school kid.

 

[creasy]

Anyone looking for a batman, In the uk now?


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[PJB-1138]

I've watched the longer cut of BvS a few times now, and I think the movie the filmmakers were trying to create went over the heads of most movie-goers, especially since it can be argued that their ambition exceeded what they were able to pull off from a credible story-telling point of view.

The arc of the two characters is built around how they contrast one another. Superman is almost physically impervious to harm but emotionally sensitive, evident by how deeply he cares for the people in his life, which only burdens him as his exploits become more public and the world begins to look upon him as a savior. Batman, on the other hand, suffers a great emotional loss as a child, works towards making himself physically powerful while distancing himself from others, until his lifelong war on crime begins to corrupt him ("We're criminals, Alfred. We've always been criminals."), with few friends and little hope towards the future.

So, when our heroes are introduced to one another, they only catch a rather uncharacteristic glimpse of the other. Superman, in his blind rage battling Zod, brings wanton destruction with great collateral damage, leaving Batman with understandable concern that this may only be a sign of things to come. And Batman, with "a new kind of mean in him," is seen by Superman as someone who is allowed to pursue his enemies as he sees fit, unopposed by the police and the justice system.

Thus, when Superman sacrifices himself, Bruce Wayne begins to recognize his sins, decides to form alliances, and re-examines his brutal methods. In the course of the two films, we see Superman saving humanity in many instances from mortal danger, but here we see him saving Batman's soul. He has to be brought to the darkest depths so Superman can bring him into the light.

If the DC cinematic universe is to play the long game, it shouldn't begin by showing our heroes as audiences have come to expect them portrayed right out of the gate (that's just fan service, and there's plenty of that going around already!), but where they are as three-dimensional characters first. That way, it leaves us with more than just learning how they get their powers and why they wear the costumes they do.

 

[enzolt]

I've watched the longer cut of BvS a few times now, and I think the movie the filmmakers were trying to create went over the heads of most movie-goers, especially since it can be argued that their ambition exceeded what they were able to pull off from a credible story-telling point of view.

The arc of the two characters is built around how they contrast one another. Superman is almost physically impervious to harm but emotionally sensitive, evident by how deeply he cares for the people in his life, which only expands as his exploits become more public and the world begins to look upon him as their guardian. Batman, on the other hand, suffers a great emotional loss as a child, works towards making himself physically powerful while distancing himself from others, until his lifelong war on crime begins to corrupt him ("We're criminals, Alfred. We've always been criminals."), with few friends and little hope towards the future.

So, when our heroes are introduced to one another, they only catch a rather uncharacteristic glimpse of the other. Superman, in his battle with Zod, brings wanton destruction with tragic collateral damage, leaving Batman with understandable concern that this may be a sign of things to come. And Batman, with "a new kind of mean in him," is seen by Superman as someone who is simply allowed to pursue his enemies as he sees fit, unopposed by the police and the justice system.

Thus, when Superman sacrifices himself, Bruce Wayne begins to recognize his sins, decides to seek allies, and re-examine his brutal methods. In the course of the two films, we see Superman saving humanity in many instances from mortal danger, but here we see him saving Batman's soul. He had to be shown in the darkest depths in order for Superman to bring him into the light.

If the DC cinematic universe is to play the long game, it shouldn't begin by showing our heroes as we've come to expect them right out of the gate (that's just fan service, and there's plenty of that going around already!), but where they are as three-dimensional characters first. That way, it leaves us with more than just learning how they get their powers and why they wear the costumes they do.

Very good analysis.

 

[SilverStar17]

I've watched the longer cut of BvS a few times now, and I think the movie the filmmakers were trying to create went over the heads of most movie-goers, especially since it can be argued that their ambition exceeded what they were able to pull off from a credible story-telling point of view.

The arc of the two characters is built around how they contrast one another. Superman is almost physically impervious to harm but emotionally sensitive, evident by how deeply he cares for the people in his life, which only burdens him as his exploits become more public and the world begins to look upon him as a savior. Batman, on the other hand, suffers a great emotional loss as a child, works towards making himself physically powerful while distancing himself from others, until his lifelong war on crime begins to corrupt him ("We're criminals, Alfred. We've always been criminals."), with few friends and little hope towards the future.

So, when our heroes are introduced to one another, they only catch a rather uncharacteristic glimpse of the other. Superman, in his blind rage battling Zod, brings wanton destruction with great collateral damage, leaving Batman with understandable concern that this may only be a sign of things to come. And Batman, with "a new kind of mean in him," is seen by Superman as someone who is allowed to pursue his enemies as he sees fit, unopposed by the police and the justice system.

Thus, when Superman sacrifices himself, Bruce Wayne begins to recognize his sins, decides to form alliances, and re-examines his brutal methods. In the course of the two films, we see Superman saving humanity in many instances from mortal danger, but here we see him saving Batman's soul. He has to be brought to the darkest depths so Superman can bring him into the light.

If the DC cinematic universe is to play the long game, it shouldn't begin by showing our heroes as audiences have come to expect them portrayed right out of the gate (that's just fan service, and there's plenty of that going around already!), but where they are as three-dimensional characters first. That way, it leaves us with more than just learning how they get their powers and why they wear the costumes they do.

Great assessment!

If I may add one thing to your statement of saying that the arc of the two characters is built around how they contrast one another, I would say that is true, however, they're also not so different. In BvS, Batman has already gone off the deep end, so to speak. He already no longer has faith in mankind and is a cynic as far as believing in the hope for it. He doesn't think good exists anymore because he once stood for it, but instead of him changing the world, the corrupt world just pushed back twice as hard. Superman represents the man Bruce Wayne started out as, just as Clark is now starting out on his endeavor to do what he can to help with what he has. However, he's finding out that everything isn't unicorns and rainbows, per se. Very prominent in the scene after the Capitol building bombing, with Superman overlooking the DC skyline from Lois's hotel room balcony. One of the most poignant scenes in the film, in my opinion, as he's realizing that everything Jonathan warned him about in MoS is coming to fruition. The question is, what path Superman is going to take? Is he going to let the cynical world change him, the way it changed Batman, or is he going to persevere? Superman chooses the latter and as you mentioned, in order for Batman to be brought back, he had to first be brought to the darkest depths, which was killing in cold blood with no contrition.

The one thing that I personally thought would have been a nice little addition in the famous "Martha" scene, was when after Superman said "Martha" and Batman had his flashback of the murder of his parents, it should have showed the face of the gunman after the gunman shot his mother, after showing the bullet casing discharge, but instead of it being the face of the actual gunman, it be Bruce's face. Thus, further illustrating to the audience that he was realizing he was becoming the same man that murdered his parents in cold blood in that dark alley. Would have also been an extremely poignant scene in my opinion, especially with the score that was playing in the background.

 

[Cicada17]

The one thing that I always personally thought would have been a nice little addition in the famous "Martha" scene, was when after Superman said "Martha" and Batman had his flashback of the murder of his parents, it should have showed the face of the gunman after the gunman shot his mother, but instead of it being the face of the actual gunman, it be Bruce's face. Thus, further illustrating to the audience that he was realizing he was becoming the same man that murdered his parents in cold blood in that dark alley.

Excellent idea! That would've really hit home.



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[sj2106]

Great assessment!

If I may add one thing to your statement of saying that the arc of the two characters is built around how they contrast one another, I would say that is true, however, they're also not so different. In BvS, Batman has already gone off the deep end, so to speak. He already no longer has faith in mankind and is a cynic as far as believing in the hope for it. He doesn't think good exists anymore because he once stood for it, but instead of him changing the world, the corrupt world just pushed back twice as hard. Superman represents the man Bruce Wayne started out as, just as Clark is now starting out on his endeavor to do what he can to help with what he has. However, he's finding out that everything isn't unicorns and rainbows, per se. Very prominent in the scene after the Capitol building bombing, with Superman overlooking the DC skyline from Lois's hotel room balcony. One of the most poignant scenes in the film, in my opinion, as he's realizing that everything Jonathan warned him about in MoS is coming to fruition. The question is, what path Superman is going to take? Is he going to let the cynical world change him, the way it changed Batman, or is he going to persevere? Superman chooses the latter and as you mentioned, in order for Batman to be brought back, he had to first be brought to the darkest depths, which was killing in cold blood with no contrition.

The one thing that I personally thought would have been a nice little addition in the famous "Martha" scene, was when after Superman said "Martha" and Batman had his flashback of the murder of his parents, it should have showed the face of the gunman after the gunman shot his mother, after showing the bullet casing discharge, but instead of it being the face of the actual gunman, it be Bruce's face. Thus, further illustrating to the audience that he was realizing he was becoming the same man that murdered his parents in cold blood in that dark alley. Would have also been an extremely poignant scene in my opinion, especially with the score that was playing in the background.

Love that idea, would have been super cool to have seen it in the movie.

 

[北京国安]

Just made a blue cape for client




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[Luisenigma1]

I would have thought it could have looked more dark blue and leaving the belt as it was and making the suit lighter but also keeping in the dark tones to it. Something like this. But this is some one else figure so this was there option which is fine. But I have been thinking about doing this to my batman only thing is I would need a dark blue leather cape.

 

[WhoaItsJBot]

Color scheme like this would be ideal to me:

 

[北京国安]

Yes this will be a classic comic version


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[jedijim3002]

That is a very bright blue.

 

[actionfiguremovies]

Yes this will be a classic comic version


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I like the blue you chose and am really looking forward to your picture of the finished product. The darker blue would look cool too. It's just nice to see the different renditions, even the brighter blue. Keep up the great work.

AFM