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What's the point of a prequel if we know that the ending that we just saw was extremely disappointing. I just can't get interested in anything GOT related.
 
Anyone here have the bluray 4K set? Is it worth getting?

I was thinking of buying the entire series and can't decide between regular bluray and the new 4k which seems to me like the dragons will look more fake.
 
Hell.... pretty much all the Starks are boring AF IMO.
Arya's double act with the Hound was great in earlier seasons though.
 
lordnastrond said:
Am I the only one who is and always has been bored to tears by Jon Snow?
Never understood the love for him.
Click to expand...
You're in the minority. Jon Snow is the underdog. The battle of the bastards was soooo good partly because we were all so invested in Jon Snow and wanted him to finally get some justice, that's what makes this moment so goddamn epic:
jonsnow.0.jpg
 
HMC117 said:
You're in the minority. Jon Snow is the underdog. The battle of the bastards was soooo good partly because we were all so invested in Jon Snow and wanted him to finally get some justice, that's what makes this moment so goddamn epic:View attachment 624837
Click to expand...
Yeah I am probably in the minority but I just... cannot express the depths of my boredom with Jon Snow - the character had as much going on upstairs as a wilted lettuce.

"oh no! the child Stark the writers clearly didnt care about and forgot for several seasons is dead, Jon must be so sad"
Over It Reaction GIF

"oh wow! Jon Snow might be the real Targaryen heir - we should absolutely never do anything with this besides make it awkward when he bangs his aunt!"
Bored Matthew Perry GIF by Friends

"oh wow Jon Snow has just been made King in the North despite doing nothing to earn it, not wanting it and immediately selling Northern Independence to the Dragon Queen at the first opportunity!"
Bored Season 4 GIF by Parks and Recreation

"Awesome! Jon Snow was just brought back to life by the Lord of Light! Lets never have a reason for why this happens as he provides precisely nothing to the plot once resurrected"


Jon Snow isn't an underdog - he's a marty stu for whom the plot and characters revolve without really doing anything or having anything going on in his personality besides some "oh no I'm a bastard" angst.
Tyrion is an interesting underdog (at first) - Jon is.... boring AF to me.
 
lordnastrond said:
Yeah I am probably in the minority but I just... cannot express the depths of my boredom with Jon Snow - the character had as much going on upstairs as a wilted lettuce.

"oh no! the child Stark the writers clearly didnt care about and forgot for several seasons is dead, Jon must be so sad"
Over It Reaction GIF

"oh wow! Jon Snow might be the real Targaryen heir - we should absolutely never do anything with this besides make it awkward when he bangs his aunt!"
Bored Matthew Perry GIF by Friends

"oh wow Jon Snow has just been made King in the North despite doing nothing to earn it, not wanting it and immediately selling Northern Independence to the Dragon Queen at the first opportunity!"
Bored Season 4 GIF by Parks and Recreation

"Awesome! Jon Snow was just brought back to life by the Lord of Light! Lets never have a reason for why this happens as he provides precisely nothing to the plot once resurrected"


Jon Snow isn't an underdog - he's a marty stu for whom the plot and characters revolve without really doing anything or having anything going on in his personality besides some "oh no I'm a bastard" angst.
Tyrion is an interesting underdog (at first) - Jon is.... boring AF to me.
Click to expand...
- Just because Rickon was a non-character doesn't mean we can't feel for Jon when his brother is murdered in front of him

- Him being heir to the throne played a large role in Dany losing her mind

- Nothing to earn it? He led the army against Ramsey. He didn't back down or retreat because his numbers were low, he got in the mud and fought harder than anyone else despite knowing he almost certainly was doomed. He absolutely deserved to be made king in the North. And he bent the knee to Dany because he knew they needed her and her dragons to stand any chance at winning.

- provides nothing to the plot? Never have a reason? Did you not even watch the show?? Jon literally led everyone in the fight against the dead. If Jon didn't come back to life: nobody would have been prepared for the Night King and his army, the Starks wouldn't have retaken Winterfell and the Night King would have cut through it like a knife through butter when he crossed the wall. Then he would have made his way up to Kings Landing eventually and killed everyone their too. Your comment is ridiculous as Jon Snow literally saved the entire world when he was brought back by the Lord of light.

- Jon Snow is absolutley an underdog. Just because you hate him for some reason doesn't change the facts.
 
HMC117 said:
- Just because Rickon was a non-character doesn't mean we can't feel for Jon when his brother is murdered in front of him

- Him being heir to the throne played a large role in Dany losing her mind

- Nothing to earn it? He led the army against Ramsey. He didn't back down or retreat because his numbers were low, he got in the mud and fought harder than anyone else despite knowing he almost certainly was doomed. He absolutely deserved to be made king in the North. And he bent the knee to Dany because he knew they needed her and her dragons to stand any chance at winning.

- provides nothing to the plot? Never have a reason? Did you not even watch the show?? Jon literally led everyone in the fight against the dead. If Jon didn't come back to life: nobody would have been prepared for the Night King and his army, the Starks wouldn't have retaken Winterfell and the Night King would have cut through it like a knife through butter when he crossed the wall. Then he would have made his way up to Kings Landing eventually and killed everyone their too. Your comment is ridiculous as Jon Snow literally saved the entire world when he was brought back by the Lord of light.

- Jon Snow is absolutley an underdog. Just because you hate him for some reason doesn't change the facts.
Click to expand...
And just to add this brilliant comment, even if you do not subscribe to the idea that Jon rallied Westeros against the Night King and so prevented the apocalyptic tide of ice and death, the prophesized long night, from coming to pass. It is very difficult to deny that perhaps his (other) purpose for resurrection was to stop the Mad Queen before she could fully unleash her own fiery destruction across Westeros. As I see it, he was both ice and fire by blood but his true purpose was to prevent the two avatars of ice and fire from destroying the world.
 
HMC117 said:
- Just because Rickon was a non-character doesn't mean we can't feel for Jon when his brother is murdered in front of him

- Him being heir to the throne played a large role in Dany losing her mind

- Nothing to earn it? He led the army against Ramsey. He didn't back down or retreat because his numbers were low, he got in the mud and fought harder than anyone else despite knowing he almost certainly was doomed. He absolutely deserved to be made king in the North. And he bent the knee to Dany because he knew they needed her and her dragons to stand any chance at winning.

- provides nothing to the plot? Never have a reason? Did you not even watch the show?? Jon literally led everyone in the fight against the dead. If Jon didn't come back to life: nobody would have been prepared for the Night King and his army, the Starks wouldn't have retaken Winterfell and the Night King would have cut through it like a knife through butter when he crossed the wall. Then he would have made his way up to Kings Landing eventually and killed everyone their too. Your comment is ridiculous as Jon Snow literally saved the entire world when he was brought back by the Lord of light.

- Jon Snow is absolutley an underdog. Just because you hate him for some reason doesn't change the facts.
Click to expand...
Alright, time to take my gloves off.
- the characters themselves don't care about Rickon - how do I know that? Because they never acknowledge his death beyond Jon Snows 10 second reaction during the BOTB. Sansa, Arya and the other Starks don't even mention him when they catch up together.
- Jon charged into battle foolishly after taking Ramsey's bait and forced his army to give up their position to save him, yes he fought on the field - but its not like he did more than anyone else, Sansa won the battle with her army from the Vale.
- Jon bent the knee without so much as consulting the lords who elevated him on the very basis of pursuing an independent North. Also when questioned his main reasoning was "I don't want it" - something he repeats ad nauseum. This is precisely why there is conflict between him and Sansa later on.
- Jon Snow did not lead the fight against the dead, he spent most of the battle watching from his dragon (not even USING the dragon all the time like Daenerys was - rewatch the episode, he is in clear line of sight doing absolutely nothing when they are trying to light the signal for Dany to ignite the trench), then he tries to kill the Night King but doesnt even get close.
- The Starks absolutely would have retaken Winterfell without him - Jon lost the BOTB, Sansa was the one who won it. Until she intervened the Bolton's were easily winning.
- The most you can credit Jon with is making Dany aware of the problem and convincing her to help - which is not insignificant, but not something only he uniquely was capable of.
- The Night King DID cut through Winterfell like a knife through butter - it was only Arya pulling a deus ex machina that saved them. The defences and armies barely lasted a couple of hours.
- You calling my comment ridiculous does not make it so - what did Jon Snow do that ONLY he was capable of that was instrumental to victory? He didn't kill the Night King, he didn't gather the majority of the allies. The most he did was convincing Daenerys - which seems like something someone else could of done, not the divinely resurrected Jon Snow. He wasn't Azor Ahai, He wasn't the Prince that was Promised, there was nothing unique to him or what he did that required or justified the divine intervention.
- Jon Snow is not an underdog, precisely because things work out for him without his own agency numerous times - this becomes more obvious in later seasons but its the truth. Sure in earlier seasons he is an underdog, he has to work harder and be smarter to survive and rise in Castle Black, but once he is resurrected things just come together for him.

Bravomite said:
And just to add this brilliant comment, even if you do not subscribe to the idea that Jon rallied Westeros against the Night King and so prevented the apocalyptic tide of ice and death, the prophesized long night, from coming to pass. It is very difficult to deny that perhaps his (other) purpose for resurrection was to stop the Mad Queen before she could fully unleash her own fiery destruction across Westeros. As I see it, he was both ice and fire by blood but his true purpose was to prevent the two avatars of ice and fire from destroying the world.
Click to expand...

This is a more interesting interpretation, and I think with some work it could have convinced me. The problem is that the show doesn't subscribe to it, the Red Priestesses that support Dany make it clear that, apart from potentially being Azor Ahai, they support her precisely BECAUSE she and her dragons could "purify non-believers by the thousands" with dragonfire, so it seems unlikely that this would be something R'hllor would be against.
 
Last edited:
lordnastrond said:
Alright, time to take my gloves off.
- the characters themselves don't care about Rickon - how do I know that? Because they never acknowledge his death beyond Jon Snows 10 second reaction during the BOTB. Sansa, Arya and the other Starks don't even mention him when they catch up together.
- Jon charged into battle foolishly after taking Ramsey's bait and forced his army to give up their position to save him, yes he fought on the field - but its not like he did more than anyone else, Sansa won the battle with her army from the Vale.
- Jon bent the knee without so much as consulting the lords who elevated him on the very basis of pursuing an independent North. Also when questioned his main reasoning was "I don't want it" - something he repeats ad nauseum. This is precisely why there is conflict between him and Sansa later on.
- Jon Snow did not lead the fight against the dead, he spent most of the battle watching from his dragon (not even USING the dragon all the time like Daenerys was - rewatch the episode, he is in clear line of sight doing absolutely nothing when they are trying to light the signal for Dany to ignite the trench), then he tries to kill the Night King but doesnt even get close.
- The Starks absolutely would have retaken Winterfell without him - Jon lost the BOTB, Sansa was the one who won it. Until she intervened the Bolton's were easily winning.
- The most you can credit Jon with is making Dany aware of the problem and convincing her to help - which is not insignificant, but not something only he uniquely was capable of.
- The Night King DID cut through Winterfell like a knife through butter - it was only Arya pulling a deus ex machina that saved them. The defences and armies barely lasted a couple of hours.
- You calling my comment ridiculous does not make it so - what did Jon Snow do that ONLY he was capable of that was instrumental to victory? He didn't kill the Night King, he didn't gather the majority of the allies. The most he did was convincing Daenerys - which seems like something someone else could of done, not the divinely resurrected Jon Snow. He wasn't Azor Ahai, He wasn't the Prince that was Promised, there was nothing unique to him or what he did that required or justified the divine intervention.
- Jon Snow is not an underdog, precisely because things work out for him without his own agency numerous times - this becomes more obvious in later seasons but its the truth. Sure in earlier seasons he is an underdog, he has to work harder and be smarter to survive and rise in Castle Black, but once he is resurrected things just come together for him.



This is a more interesting interpretation, and I think with some work it could have convinced me. The problem is that the show doesn't subscribe to it, the Red Priestesses that support Dany make it clear that, apart from potentially being Azor Ahai, they support her precisely BECAUSE she and her dragons could "purify non-believers by the thousands" with dragonfire, so it seems unlikely that this would be something R'hllor would be against.
Click to expand...
Time to "take your gloves off"? 🤣🤦‍♂️
- you realise that it's a tv show with only 10 hours per season? (And less after season 6) You don't see EVERYTHING they ever say after returning to winterfell. I'm sure they had a conversation offscreen about their dead brother, which is not necessary for us to see at that point because the time is better spent talking about characters we knew and loved like Ned Stark.

- Jon charged in because he loved his brother. Jon has a big heart and if he didn't charge in, that would just not fit his character at all. Was it dumb from a military leader point of view? Yeah, so what. In his head, he had to try to save him. Sansa on the other hand, refused help from Littlefinger until the last minute and didn't even tell anyone about it. She did f@#k all, she sat on a horse while her stalker brought an army to win the battle for her. Jon absolutely did more than anyone, he killed a ridiculous amount of people with his skill in combat, he talked his army of wildlings into fighting with him and they said yes because he is a good man who inspired them. Without them, and him, winterfell would not have been retaken. He also demolished Ramsay in a 1v1.

- That's because he knew exactly what the Lords would say and he knew they were wrong and that he needed Dany and her dragons to win. The Lords are all pretty clueless on the dead until season 8, Jon knew it was all that mattered because if they weren't ready they would end all life.

- Jon assembled the army's to fight the dead. Jon was at the center of the battle at hardhome. Jon got them dragon glass. Jon warned everyone he could about the dead. Without him, there literally would have been ZERO defense and no army to fight the dead. He was on his dragon killing wights and waiting for his chance to take out the night king because he knew that the battle against the dead was unwinnable unless they killed the night king. What's the best chance at taking him out? By getting him in the sky with his dragon, which he tried to do.

- seriously, did you even watch season 6? If Jon stayed dead, wildlings never fight Ramsay's army. The Knights of the Vale would be the only army. They won because Ramsays army was already cut down a significant amount by the wildlings. If The Knights of the Vale outnumbered Ramsays army, he never would have met them in the open like he did with the wildlings. He would have just stayed in the castle. He met Jon's army because he thought they had no chance of winning. Sansa did f@*k all.

- Ridiculous. I've already explained how without Jon there would have been NOBODY READY FOR THE DEAD. It would have been an extinction event.

- Arya was there because of Jon retaking winterfell. Arya only got a shot at taking him out, and only knew how to take him out, because Jon came back to life. How hard is this to understand??? Jon coming back changed everything. Let's say Jon stayed dead: Ramsay still owns Winterfell, Arya is off trying to murder Cersei, and nobody even has a clue who the Night King is, apart from Tormund and the wildlings, who nobody would even talk to without Jon leading them. Arya played her part, but she was able to play that part because of everything Jon had done.

- Again, already answered in my several points above what Jon did. And how without him, nobody would even stand a chance or have any clue what to do.

- Jon Snow is an underdog. Just because he eventually, after six seasons, finally had good things happen to him like becoming king in the North doesn't take that away. He won that title because he was the underdog. He defied expectations and became far more than the bastard of winterfell through courage, bravery and sheer will. He never gave up. And he lost it all and ended up exiled at the end for the same reasons. Rocky Balboa became heavyweight champion of the world at the end of Rocky II, and he's literally the greatest underdog in cinematic history.
 

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