Has TPM Aged Well for You?

[Amanaman]

Something about AOTC that still puzzles me was the whole celibacy thing. I actually thought that Anakin was going to be expelled from the Order.

Also in Eps 2 & 3, Obi-Wan was separated from Anakin's whereabouts to make it easier to lure Anakin to the dark side. It's a cheap cop-out, and it couldn't be any more obvious in the second duel with Dooku. The conflict between Anakin/OWK should had grown gradually, not suddenly. I just felt no tension throughout the duel, because there wasn't any! Nothing was built up to convince me that the conflict between these two grown men was legit. The action was good though..

 

[Ultimate Weapon]

Exactly guys, exactly.

There's nothing wrong with being critical of the movies. I can be as critical as anyone about the prequels, and it's a kind of a shame that I have to, but I still enjoy them, just not nearly as much as the original trilogy - though I really want to. It seems like every issue in the prequels that just doesn't work quite right would be such an easy fix. If the flicks were just polished up a bit, if someone like Lawrence Kasden had been involved (I read that he turned down the offer due to George's controlling nature) the films could have been so much more, and I agree it does feel like a missed opportunity of sorts.

As far as Phantom goes if the Gungans, and JarJar in particular, had been treated with a bit more dignity and respect then one of the major flaws would be resolved. Imagine if JarJar were stoic and noble, without such an flamboyant characterization, no one would have a serious problem with him.

 

[Ultimate Weapon]

Something about AOTC that still puzzles me was the whole celibacy thing. I actually thought that Anakin was going to be expelled from the Order.

Also in Eps 2 & 3, Obi-Wan was separated from Anakin's whereabouts to make it easier to lure Anakin to the dark side. It's a cheap cop-out, and it couldn't be any more obvious in the second duel with Dooku. The conflict between Anakin/OWK should had grown gradually, not suddenly. I just felt no tension throughout the duel, because there wasn't any! Nothing was built up to convince me that the conflict between these two grown men was legit. The action was good though..

Therein lies one of the major problems with the prequels, especially EPII and III.

First off there is no immediate sense of real danger or threat at almost any time. In ANH there's the Death Star which presentss a direct and serious threat to our heroes and a princess to be rescued. In ESB there's a direct conflict between Luke and Vader, Rebels and Empire and these themes continue through ROTJ. Even in Phantom Menace Darth Maul is on th heels of our hereoes throughout the film hunting them at every turn.

Once we arrive at EPII and III the immediate threats are gone. Things are mentioned and alluded to, but not developed. Anakin never seems to be in any real danger of being expelled from the order. Obi-wan never seems in danger of finding out what's really going on. The Sith remain in the shadows despite Maul's earlier quote "At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi. At last we shall have revenge."

The clone wars - I found myself wondering well, who cares, it's a war between droids and clones it doesn't really matter who wins. It's all contrived. Throughout history wars have been contrived and staged to manipulate public opinions/fears, so that theme isn't the issue, but the viewer just never has a feeling like the war's outcome matters and presents any real danger. In a sense that's a part of the point, but it still must feel as though it is a credible threat to work. Even when Palpatine declared himself Emperor the first thing he says is "We shall have peace." Well hell, what's wrong with that? That's not evil at all. His machinations are evil to be sure, but we aren't really shown an outcome that feels evil, unlike the ominous nature the empire represents in the original trilogy. Perhaps in reality and modern politics these gray lines between good and evil resonate more, as they should, but in a galaxy far far away where we follow the journeys of the epic hero through a world of mythology we need more definition.

Obi-wan sums it up best in Phantom Menace when in regards to his "bad feeling" he states "it's something elsewhere, elusive ..." and that is the way all the conflicts feel throughout the prequels.

 

[Coheteboy]

^adding to your comments about 'danger'...

There's something I noticed about EVERY Star Wars movie EXCEPT ep2 and ep3. Ep1, 4, 5, and 6 have moments preparing for war. It's the calm leading to the storm.

In Ep1, we have them planning out their strategy of how to take back the palace. The gungans also march out to the fields to await the tanks. The Battle of Naboo.

In Ep4, we have the prep for the Battle of Yavin.

Ep5, we have the calm before the Battle of Hoth, one of the greatest Star Wars battles on film too.

And in Ep6, we have the second battle of the Death Star as well as the Battle of Endor.


EACH of those battles were do or die situations. There were no second chances.


In ep2, the Battle of Geonosis just kinda happens. There was no prepping for it. If it WAS a do or die situation, it sure didn't feel like it. Everything was happening all at once and I just didn't feel a connection to it.

Ep3, there were battles all over the place. Heck, we start the movie right in the middle of one. And winning that one sure didn't HELP their cause that's for sure!


Ep2 the most feels like a random series of unnecessary events. And ep3 is just TOO MANY events crammed into too short of a time. This is the birth of VADER and it happens right after Mace Windu goes out the window? I mean seriously... i just don't buy how fast the turn to the dark side was.

 

[Outer_Rim]

There isn´t an obvious threat in Episodes 2 and 3 because the lines between good an evil are blurred. By the end of Ep 2 the Jedi are no longer keepers of the peace but soldiers. They accept violence and deception as a way to fight the Dark Side when ironically these are weapons of the Sith. By the other hand, the galaxy as a whole becomes greedy and inhospitable.

In Episodes 1, 4, 5 and 6 we got Darth Maul and the Empire as agents of evil, meanwhile in 2 and 3 the real threat is hidden inside the Replublic. It is like a cancer corrupting life quietly and growing stronger until it is too late.

 

[Agent0028]

Seeing the Jedi prepare to go to war on Geonosis would have been really cool. I say King George should do that in one of the special editions he'll undoubtably do.

I like how ROTS starts out right in the middle of the battle. I know the first time I saw it (I hadn't read any book or anything so I had no clue what was going on with the Clone Wars) and saw all those ships over Coruscant I was thinking, "Holy crap, this war is not going well." Unfortunately, that feel kinda gets lost through the rest of the movie.

 

[SolidLiquidFox]

As much as I like Qui-Gon and Maul, I think the saga should have started at AOTC. it would have made for a stronger prequel. This is the story of Anakin Skywalker. We do not need to see when he was such a young boy. The prequels did not need to mirror the OT so much.

I would have prefered to have 2 movies of Anakin as he was in AOTC with a developing relationship between him and Obi-Wan, the resentment he feels due to the council not fully embracing him as one their own, the love story being played out better, etc.

 

[Customikey]

I think it would have been cool if:

1. Anakin had been pursued by Padme, not the other way around. Make her more pro-active in the relationship. Hell, make her a Jedi, too! 2X the forbidden love, yo.

2. Maul had lived to the end of ROTS. Cut out GG and Dooku, and set up a very dangerous and continuing threat in Maul.

3. Anakin were already a teen jedi wunderkind when TPM began. I don't need the slaveboy stuff, which had almost NO bearing on anything to come.

4. Cut Shmi and Jar Jar. Have them take Watto with them. Better dynamic. Put a truly selfish but likeable character in with all those self-less Jedi. Shake things up.

5. Make the Gungans more interesting. Except for the main three, they all looked alike!! I'm sure Watto would have had some interesting scenes with Boss Nass (who needs to be re-thought).

6. Have Palpatine use the gangster-filled underworld as a tool/patsy instead of the bland "seperatists."

7. Cut Zam Wessel, put in Aurra Sing. Pay off the promise of that character and cut the totally pointless "changeling."

8. When Anakin finally confesses his love to Padme, let Obi-Wan make the mistake of telling Yoda and getting Anakin kicked out of the Order. Set up their conflict better.

TPM has aged well for me. There's something grand, sweeping, and innocent about it now. Can't put my finger on it. AOTC has definitely not. Kenobi's magical beard, Zam Wessel, and the "love" dialogue make much of it nearly unwatchable for me right now. Maybe that will change.
ROTS I'm on the rock about. There is much to love. But the way Dooku is quickly dispatched and forgotten, the lack of pay-off for GG, and the terrible way Padme was handled make it a difficult watch right now.

 

[JSA]

TPM is my favorite NT Star Wars film by far, and actually is the most fun
Star Wars film period to watch with my kids. I have no problems with Jar Jar
and the Darth Maul fight sequences are still the best in any Star Wars film.

As far as the other NT films, I like RotS, but I don't care for AotC at all, and
actually think it was pretty bad overall, and I wanted very much to like it.

OT Star Wars films are great for my own nostalgia, but TPM is the most fun
film overall for me.

JS

 

[Amanaman]

It's true that the main threat in the prequels was meant to be hidden until the very end. That's fine, but I wanted to see a tangible manifestation of that threat throughout the series. The whole point of a movie is to engage the audience. To simply show what's going on isn't very exciting. Best example is the introduction of the twins. It was so rushed and forced. Padme was too quick to name them, without even knowing their genders.

How the hell did the Jedi become so daft from AOTC onwards? They had a good lead that the main Sith was controlling the Senate, so why didn't they investigate? Even if they didn't trust Dooku, they knew something fishy was going on! It gives me very little faith in the authority of Jedi Order, when they're more than willing to serve as generals for some suspicious clone army that came out of nowhere.

I also wanted to see some more of the Jedi temple. I wanted to see Anakin's fall to the dark side brewing right at home.

There were countless themes introduced that were never resolved. The plot to kill Padme got old and predictable. I wanted to see Anakin's fall to be more along the lines of ideological disagreements with Obi-Wan.

 

[Agent0028]

I think if Anakin's descent to the dark side had been better that the slave boy part would be better too. I think Lucas' point in doing that was to create this question of, "How does that poor little boy become Vader?"

The funny thing about the prequels for me is that I love them, I really do, but something feels off about them. It's like a sideshow figure that isn't quite there in the likeness, but I can't put my finger on what it is.

 

[jedibear]

TPM has always and will always "work" for me...

....one main reason. Qui-Gon Jinn.

 

[Coheteboy]

TPM has aged well for me. There's something grand, sweeping, and innocent about it now. Can't put my finger on it. AOTC has definitely not. Kenobi's magical beard, Zam Wessel, and the "love" dialogue make much of it nearly unwatchable for me right now. Maybe that will change.
ROTS I'm on the rock about. There is much to love. But the way Dooku is quickly dispatched and forgotten, the lack of pay-off for GG, and the terrible way Padme was handled make it a difficult watch right now.

I'm so with you on Zam. She was HORRIBLE. I know some defenders of Ep2 and ep3 would say that there are some cool scenes and the story is what's important... but we never really argued about the overall story... it's just a mess that really needed to be sorted out. Not just by George but by another party.

Back to Zam. She was POINTLESS. That whole beginning of the film was completely a waste of time.

-Jango Fett hired by Tyranus (and Nute Gunray I suppose) to assassinate Padme. What does he do? He hires Zam to do the dirty work as he "supervises".

-Zam fails to kill Padme because she used a decoy.

-Jango then gives Zam poisonous bugs to do the job.

-Zam gives the bugs to a droid to actually do it. Uhhhh... couldn't Jango have done that??)

-Droid takes the bugs to Padme but is spotted... brings Obi-Wan to Zam and she fails to bring him down.

-We follow Obi-Wan and Anakin through the long and unnecessary chase through Coruscant.

-The jedi find her, and she gets killed by Jango from afar, WHICH LEADS obi-wan to Kamino.



Okay yah.... that just happened. Seemed a bit overly complicated didn't it? And that's the problem with Ep2 in general. The underlying story is that the clones need to be discovered, anakin and padme fall in love, and the war begins. THAT'S IT. We shouldn't be on this lame-brained chase through Coruscant.

I know that they tried to make the film darker than ep1 and it's noticeable, but at a price. There's no FUN in this movie until Yoda brings it on. And even that was too short.



Maybe ep2 and 3 are bad because Ep1 also promises a lot. It has the best choreographed lightsaber battle. It has the fun as well as the cool. It had Anakin say that "someday he was going to come back and free all the slaves" and that someday he's going to see all the stars. I mean... that to me hits an emotional chord with me because I thought it would be brought up again later. The emotional hopes of ep2 and 3 were not met.

Ewan McGregor poured his heart and soul to the end of the saber battle against Anakin. And for Anakin to cry out "I HATE YOU!!!" seemed too unbelievable. Ep3 lasts a period of a few days. Beginning of the film, he was "we're not leaving without him (obi-wan)." And now he HATES him. The guy who's been his friend and teacher for all of his youth. And he HATES him????


I blame Ron Howard and Steven Spielberg. Lucas had originally asked them to head ep2 and ep3 respectively. They turned him down saying that HE had to do it.

 

[bcm77]

No. And I'll say the same about the other prequels too. Time doesn't make the acting,the endless totally unecessary CGI characters or any of the other issues I have with the PT any better.

 

[Agent0028]

I think ROTS lasted longer than a few days but I could be wrong. I got the feeling that it lasted a couple months given Padme's pregnancy and the space travel involved but I could be wrong, I don't have any real evidence for that except that Padme seemed pretty thin at the beginning and was showing a bit by the end. I would look to ESB as an example of a movie that doesn't seem to span much time, but I think it did.

 

[Coheteboy]

I think ROTS lasted longer than a few days but I could be wrong. I got the feeling that it lasted a couple months given Padme's pregnancy and the space travel involved but I could be wrong, I don't have any real evidence for that except that Padme seemed pretty thin at the beginning and was showing a bit by the end. I would look to ESB as an example of a movie that doesn't seem to span much time, but I think it did.

ROTS was probably a week max. Everything happens so fast. I think it was too much story for one movie even. Grievous really didn't need to be in this. It just took up time that could have been spent better on the other Jedi. How about mentioning their names ON screen at least once?

 

[piccolodaimaoh]

The best thing about the 3 prequels is Star Wars: Clone Wars by Genndy Tartakovsky.
All 3 prequels have issues that we fans could fix, but Clone Wars looked like it was done by fans for fans.
Star Wars is a combination of the genres of Samurai, Old West, World War II and Hot Rods all set in a galaxy very similar to that of Flash Gordon.
Somewhere between Last Crusade and Phantom Menace George Lucas forgot his inspiration.

With that being said I do not believe the prequels are all that bad. I enjoyed them all, I just found Clone Wars to be a real eye-opener. Clone Wars is what the prequels should be.

And now I am off my soap box.

 

[KitFisto]

I would have to say ROTS had to be a couple of months due to Padme not showing much in the begining and then being fully preggers by the end.

It was either a few month time frame OR another terrible job by Lucas on consistency.

 

[Agent0028]

It was either a few month time frame OR another terrible job by Lucas on consistency.

Hopefully even he couldn't get that wrong.

 

[abstractharmony]

My only real problem with TPM and the prequel trilogy as a whole is that Anakin was too young and there wasn't enough space between AOTC & ROTS for me.

If they had made Ani 15 in TPM, 25 in AOTC & 35 in ROTS I think that would've been a much better timeline making him 55 at ANH and 58/59 in ROTJ.

Also, Yoda's 'No, he is too old' would have been more fitting.

That way the 'romance' between Padme & Ani would also have been more believable.

I have to say though that when AOTC first came out I absolutely detested every minute of it. Now I can at least watch 2/3 of the movie and think that Hayden played Anakin pitch perfect in that movie (God, don't you just want to slap him!!!!).

a slightly older anakin in the TPM would also have been more dramatic rather that the pissy little mummy's boy that he was.

On the whole though I do enjoy the PT and ROTS has some fine, fine moments (i just wish that Uncle George would have actually had Anakin kill Padme.)