Ebay and PP users must file tax forms beginning in 2011 - discuss

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Mesa

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I just heard about this today.

Good news is that there is a $20,000 minimum before being required to file, if I'm reading tht correctly.



https://www.forbes.com/2009/03/17/irs-ebay-audits-personal-finance-taxes-internet-sellers.html


Coming Soon To eBay: The Taxman
William P. Barrett, 03.18.09, 12:00 PM EDT
Are you a spare-bedroom merchant? Time to start reporting sales to the IRS.


With the economy worsening, more and more people are likely trying to make ends meet by selling goods via eBay, Amazon.com, Google Checkout and other online services. The Internal Revenue Service is fixing to wield a big new weapon to get its cut.

Desperate to generate revenues by narrowing the "tax gap" (and at the urging of the Bush administration), Congress last year passed legislation requiring processors of third-party payments and settlements--mainly payment card companies and services like Paypal--to report to the IRS individuals and business entities that receive at least $20,000 a year in credit- or debit-card charges from 200 or more transactions. The mandatory reporting, buried in the Housing Assistance Tax Act of 2008, would begin in 2011.

The IRS is already soliciting comments on how to implement the law. The primary mechanism likely would be a once-a-year issuance of a variation of Form 1099 reporting gross receipts paid.

Here's the big implication: If the IRS sees a credit card or Paypal 1099 issued for an individual who has filed a tax return that doesn't include a Schedule C (Net Profit From Business-Sole Proprietorship) or includes one showing too little in sales, or to a business reporting too little in sales, the agency might target the recipient for an audit. If an audit target fails to produce acceptable documentation of his or her business proceeds and expenses, the IRS might well include all the revenue reported on the 1099s, disallow any undocumented business expenses and then assess taxes, interest and possibly penalties on profits a taxpayer didn't even have.

A large number of mom-and-pop Internet sellers won't reach the $20,000, 200-transaction threshold for payment card reporting. But if you're one who might, or you simply want to avoid any IRS hassles, how best to protect yourself?

For starters, we recommend honesty. (After all, even sales that aren't subject to 1099 reporting are legally required to be reported on your tax return.) Close behind honesty is keeping good records, which, in this day of easy-to-use computer programs like Quicken, Microsoft Money and QuickBooks, is no longer an obstacle. On eBay, if worse comes to worse, regularly download and print out the page showing all transactions for the past two months.

Here are some other pointers:

--Try to produce a profit more often than not. If you show a profit for three years out of five, the IRS presumes you're legitimately in business for profit. If you show a loss for three years out of five, the IRS is more likely to assert that your buying and selling--say, of Star Wars memorabilia--is really just a hobby, not a business. You want it to be a business; legitimate business expenses are all deductible on Schedule C. If, in some years, your expenses exceed your sales, you can claim a loss and use it to offset other income from, say, your day job if you still have one.

By contrast, if you're a hobbyist, all your revenue must still be reported as income, but your expenses can only be deducted to the extent you have revenue. Moreover, they must be claimed as a "miscellaneous itemized deduction" on schedule A of your 1040. Such deductions are only allowed to the extent they exceed 2% of your income and aren't allowed at all in calculating the alternative minimum tax. That means you could be forced to pay tax on profit you didn't have and won't be allowed to write-off any losses you do sustain.


There's nothing wrong with arranging things such that you show a small profit in each of three years and then a substantial loss in the other two. Since most Internet-selling businesses, like individual taxpayers, are on a cash-accounting basis, bunching expenses is pretty easy. For instance, pay for the design of a new Web site, attend sellers' conventions, or buy new office equipment in the years you're not aiming to show a profit.

--Don't use your personal Social Security number as your tax identification number for business purposes. If you operate as a sole proprietor and have no employees, the IRS doesn't require you to get an employer ID. But you're going to have to give a tax ID out to a lot of strangers, especially if you're successful. So get a separate federal employer ID number to protect yourself from identity theft; you can apply online at www.irs.gov.

--Set up a separate bank account for your business. Having a separate bank account for your business is not essential but might help convince the IRS in a close case that you had the requisite business motive. It should also make it easier to track business revenue and expenses.

--Take that home-office deduction. Fearful of triggering unwanted IRS attention, many taxpayers running online sales have declined to take this break. But thanks to laws by Congress overturning anti-home-office-court rulings--and the millions of taxpayers now working from home--it's no longer an automatic audit flag. Structured properly, the home-office deduction can include a portion of your home's utilities, property insurance and depreciation (or rental payments if you don't own). Mortgage interest is already deductible for most.

However, you generally still can't claim a home-office deduction that will put your business into a loss. Plus, the area of your home that you deduct should be used exclusively for business--so you can deduct that spare room you've turned into an office or the garage dedicated to inventory storage, but not your home's kitchen or the family room where you wrap your shipments while your kids watch TV.

For more on allowable business expenses, download Publication 334, Tax Guide for Small Business, and Publication 535, Business Expenses, from the IRS Web site.

--Make sure you comply with your home state's laws on business registration and sales-tax reporting. Most of the 45 states with a sales tax require even the smallest business to get an ID number for sales-tax purposes and to make periodic filings. Generally, while you would have to collect and remit sales tax on sales made to buyers in your home state, most states exempt sales to out-of-state buyers. In any event, do not collect a sales tax you fail to remit; this is called fraud.

--Don't forget the other taxes--and tax breaks--associated with your side business. You are liable for self-employment and Medicare taxes, which can be as high as 15.3% on your profit above $400 a year. (If you've got a well-paying day job where you have Social Security tax withheld, you may not owe the 12.4% Social Security tax--those are assessed on only your first $106,800 of your earnings in 2009. All your earnings are subject to the 2.9% Medicare tax. ) There might also be the need for quarterly payment of estimated taxes too, to avoid estimated tax underpayment penalties.

But you may be able to shelter a good chunk of your profits from income tax in a simple-to-set-up retirement plan. For more on the plans, read Savings for One and download IRS Publication 560, Retirement Plans For Small Business, from the IRS Web site.


https://internetbiztaxtips.com/2008/07/paypal-and-ebay-must-report-transactions-to-the-irs/


PayPal and Ebay Must Report to the IRS
July 30, 2008 · Print This Article



Buried deep in the housing act that was just passed is a provision that requires credit card processors – including companies like eBay and PayPal – to report annual gross receipts of it’s merchants to the IRS.

Credit card processors will be required to file Form 1099 for each merchant that has at least $10,000 in gross sales and 200 transactions.

Companies have until 2011 to comply with this new law.

The purpose of this new law is to raise revenue for the housing recovery package and to close the tax gap that exists. The IRS estimates that it loses billions of dollars in tax revenue from small businesses who under-report (or don’t report) income.

While I’m worried that this new law will cause the cost of business for small and online business owners to go up (in the form of higher eBay fees, higher PayPal fees, etc.), I also think that all small business owners should pay their fair share of taxes (I pay my taxes, why shouldn’t all small business owners?).

So here are some tips to help online business owners comply with the new tax law, without paying too much to Uncle Sam:

Treat your business like a business. Register a business name, hire an accountant, keep good records. The more you can do to treat your business like a business, the less likely the IRS will reclassify your business as a hobby.
Keep separate accounts and records – have separate eBay, PayPal and checking accounts for your personal and business activities.
Report your income! Even if you don’t receive a 1099 from eBay, PayPal or the other companies that will be required to file one, you should still report all of your profits from your online business.
Learn what’s deductible and what’s not deductible – you’d be surprised how many people do not deduct business expenses because they don’t know they can.
Don’t be afraid of the home office deduction, and other deductions that have been labeled as a red flag. Being a small business owner is a red flag, but that doesn’t mean you should go out of business, or worse, not report your income!
To read more about the new IRS rules, and how they affect online business owners, please visit Online Sellers Face New IRS Rules in today’s WSJ.
 
Interesting. Makes sense though as ebay is a major source of revenue for many people.

That's true...... I've heard of people that could make a living off it. I think the $20,000/year is a good limit. Many people don't make that much, only do it as extra cash on the side (which includes me) But it's interesting to hear this. I figured it would eventually happen.
 
So you're basically having to pay taxes on something 3 times.

1. You pay tax on the money you've earned to buy the item.

2. You pay tax when you buy the item.

3. Now you pay tax on the money that you get for selling the same item.

Yup......that seems fair. :rolleyes:
 
All this is going to accomplish is putting most "mom and pop" ebay sellers out of business. My wife has been selling things on eBay for several years, and usually just barely exceeds the $20,000 annual transaction volume they are targeting. But most of what she sells comes from garage sales, estate sales, and craigslist, and she buys many things in lots, which she often breaks up and bundles with items from other lots before listing them on eBay.

Trying to keep track of the costs/profits of all of those items will be a nightmare, not to mention the time spent on the internet (the cost of our ISP), printer supplies (for printing invoices, packing slips, and shipping labels), gas expenses driving around to buy all of the things she sells, and wear and tear on her car. She'll end up spending more time managing this "business" for tax purposes than actually doing anything with it.

And the real irony is that although she exceeds the $20,000 threshold, she doesn't make anywhere near that in profits.

Thank you, Washington, for screwing us yet again.
 
I'm thinking this is only for US-based PayPal & eBay users, right? I will hate PayPal & eBay forever if they "encourage" this practice to all countries where their members reside.
 
I'm thinking this is only for US-based PayPal & eBay users, right? I will hate PayPal & eBay forever if they "encourage" this practice to all countries where their members reside.


If you pay income taxes, and if your government THINKS it can make money this way, they'll do it.
 
That's true...... I've heard of people that could make a living off it. I think the $20,000/year is a good limit. Many people don't make that much, only do it as extra cash on the side (which includes me) But it's interesting to hear this. I figured it would eventually happen.

If I'm reading this right, it's $20,000 or 200 transactions. If that's the case, alot more people would get hit.
 
So you're basically having to pay taxes on something 3 times.

1. You pay tax on the money you've earned to buy the item.

2. You pay tax when you buy the item.

3. Now you pay tax on the money that you get for selling the same item.

Yup......that seems fair. :rolleyes:

It's really no different than anything else you may sell in that price range.

For example let's use a car.

You pay Income Tax on the money you use to buy the car.

You pay Sales Tax when you buy the car.

You are supposed to pay Income Tax on the car when you sell it if you make a profit (anything over Blue Book value).

Depending on where you live, you may or may not have to pay all three of these....and some you can even write off as a deduction (sales tax when you buy the car is deductible).

This new "Ebay" tax is fair once you exceed the established threshold. The record keeping part is what people will hate...and the part that potentially could get them a larger refund at the end of the year.

Now here's when people should get worried: IF they start requiring all of the various taxes brick and mortar businesses have to pay: social security, medicare, etc.
 
taxes-main_Full.jpg
 
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So you're basically having to pay taxes on something 3 times.

1. You pay tax on the money you've earned to buy the item.

2. You pay tax when you buy the item.

3. Now you pay tax on the money that you get for selling the same item.

Yup......that seems fair. :rolleyes:
Actually I think this tax would be fair, if it was a tax on profits. Additional profits equal additional tax. However, people should only have to pay any taxes on any profits they make here. If they sell items at or below what they paid for them, they shouldn't have to pay any tax, regardless of how much they sell. The income tax is unfair, because it taxes WAGES, and THAT is double taxation, because the money used to pay those wages was already taxed. If only real profits from ebay were taxed, then that would not be triple taxation.
 
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