DC RELAUNCHING entire Universe in September

[IrishJedi]

Absolutely. Nightwing was a fun ( if weird) read, but it doesn't hold a candle.

Catwoman is still written by Judd Winick so it's safe to say that compared to Batman it's a pile.

 

[Ven]

I love synder's inner dialogue... I also like all the references to real bats and owls. batmaning staying out of the light.. feeling safe in the dark. Just amazing stuff



"....you can't hide from me.... hide in the dark. Because I live here."

 

[Buttmunch]

You really got into Batman's state of mind in that issue. Talon is really messing the Bat up

 

[The Mike]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Snyder & Lemire have a chance to be DC's new Moore & Gaiman. ...If DC doesn't ____ it up.

One thing I love about Snyder is that he is grateful to be working at DC. If you read his Twitter feed he truly his humble and I think that the love of the job is definitely coming through with his characters whereas I can't say the same for some other DC Writers.

No! We don't want his talent spread too thin!! He needs to stick to Batman - no wait, be chained to Batman and someone should throw away the key!

They need to move him to Green Lantern and then throw away the key.

You really got into Batman's state of mind in that issue. Talon is really messing the Bat up

Which is really the first nice thing out of the New 52. You get that this isn't a fully seasoned Batman, that while he has been at it for a while there are aspects where he is still green and it comes out naturally whereas some heroes even though they've only had their abilities for 5 years seem as if they've had them for 70 years and others are bumbling around so much it looks almost ridiculous.

Batman is the first book that actually uses the New 52 premise well where writers like Geoff Johns, Morrison, Winick have kind of skirted the whole "new" issue and used it more to just retcon their own desires into the heroes.

 

[Agent23]

Batman # 5 was as great as I was expecting (from reading your posts).

Nightwing was good, but obviously a drop off after reading Batman.

I still have Catwoman and Red Hood to read.

 

[Buttmunch]

Which is really the first nice thing out of the New 52. You get that this isn't a fully seasoned Batman, that while he has been at it for a while there are aspects where he is still green and it comes out naturally whereas some heroes even though they've only had their abilities for 5 years seem as if they've had them for 70 years and others are bumbling around so much it looks almost ridiculous.

Batman is the first book that actually uses the New 52 premise well where writers like Geoff Johns, Morrison, Winick have kind of skirted the whole "new" issue and used it more to just retcon their own desires into the heroes.

Which makes zero sense. Batman has a Richard, Jason, Tim, Damian, Batgirl, and Inc right now. He's clearly seasoned, but not being written quite as such. You can't have him been green AND have all of those sidekicks that took him 70+ years to get. 1 Robin and him being green would be OK, but him being a rookie now makes zero sense after having 4 Robins.

 

[Agent23]

I read Catwoman and Red Hood & The Outlaws...ehh, Ok at best.

I'll stick them out a bit longer, but I may be cutting back even more.

For $3 a pop, and 20 - 25$ a week I expect more.

Too bad all the comics aren't as good as Animal Man, Swamp Thing, and Batman.

 

[The Mike]

Which makes zero sense. Batman has a Richard, Jason, Tim, Damian, Batgirl, and Inc right now. He's clearly seasoned, but not being written quite as such. You can't have him been green AND have all of those sidekicks that took him 70+ years to get. 1 Robin and him being green would be OK, but him being a rookie now makes zero sense after having 4 Robins.

According to Jim Lee Batman has been active longer than the other heroes but not by much, someone threw out 6-8 years to which he said was about right. In Nightwing Richard seem to indicate that he served as Bruce's Robin for 1 year, he mentions in issue #1 the year under Bruce. It's not solid but it's the only thing we have to go on. We haven't gotten a dedicated timeline for the rest but we know from Batman and Robin that his time with Damien is new and that Damien served under Grayson, we don't have solid times on Tim or Jason but Jason seemed to indicate that his time under Bruce was the shortest.

It's being made to seem like Richard's time was kind of a crash course, Jason was a really short stint and Tim's was the longest with Damien's just starting. I would say in 8 years him going through 4 sidekicks helps punch up the idea that Batman is difficult to work with despite caring for these people and people are wanting to flee his shadow which was a common thread in a lot of Batman books concerning his action with sidekicks. I agree it's an aspect being kind of glossed over but it could easily be smoothed out if they choose to do so. Tim isn't that old and given that he was a teen when he went under Bruce and is still as such it kind of shows how long these Robins actually worked out

 

[Buttmunch]

To me that just says they've half-@$$ed the reboot and didn't think things like that all the way through. These characters have a rich history, but they've thrown it all out but yet want to keep everything as is. You can't have it both ways. Batman can't be just getting started and having already had 3 Robins before his current one. I don't buy the 1 year with Richard reasoning. No way Nightwing would be as skilled as he is if he only hung out with Bruce for a year before going solo. Plus how would Damian serve under Grayson if Bruce hasn't been Batman for that long? And did Bruce father Damian before becoming Batman? And if so, how and why'd he hook up with Talia then?

They've really f-ed up continunity by thinking they could reboot everything but keeping the same characters. Johns had the right idea IMO with Green Lantern and just continuing like nothing happened. The current GL events are directly tied into the events before the reboot. There was no GL reboot as far as I'm concerned. And that was a very wise move IMO. Its really ruining Batman for me right now.

 

[IrishJedi]

They didn't completely reboot Batman either, though. The Batman, Inc. stuff is still canon, for starters. Actually, I think the only Batman that's really in reset mode is the one in Justice League, but since that book pretty much sucks anyway...

According to Jim Lee...

I stopped reading right there.

 

[Buttmunch]

That has been my take too, but I do have to admit Batman has seemed a little green like Mike has said. Maybe the Owls are really just getting to him?

 

[KBA]

Just read Batman #5. Holy ____. I need to go back and pick up 2-4... Amazing comic. I agree with you though, BM, on the whole Robin thing and Bruce's experience. Having your cake and eating it too doesn't always work out. Still awesome stuff though.

 

[The Mike]

I would say that the "greenest" Batmans are in Batman, Justice League and The Dark Knight. While in Justice League International, Batman and Robin and Detective Comics he seems amazingly seasoned. I'm interested to see where Morrison places him within his own Batman: Incorporated once that starts up again.

 

[KBA]

I would say that the "greenest" Batmans are in Batman, Justice League and The Dark Knight. While in Justice League International, Batman and Robin and Detective Comics he seems amazingly seasoned. I'm interested to see where Morrison places him within his own Batman: Incorporated once that starts up again.

Definitely agree there. If that book is suppose to illuminate some of Batman's early adventures, I'd of never guessed.

 

[The Mike]

That's the weird part, In Action Comics AND Detective Comics you're supposed to see the beginnings of Superman and Batman respectively. It seems to not be working with either. Superman seems to be only slightly greener in AC and only mildly more mature in his own book whereas with Batman it's backwards. He seems to be in his element and in Batman he seems to be catching his own missteps.

 

[IrishJedi]

He doesn't seem that green to me in Batman, actually. More like over-confident. Also, I think with the Court of Owls Snyder is establishing a nemesis that just might be a step or 7 ahead of Batman, because they've been in Gotham a hell of a lot longer than him. And that's pretty cool.

 

[The Mike]

Maybe, it's just that in the other books, he seems to be very cool and calculated and even ahead of the games whereas in Batman he seems to be almost learning as he goes and secondguessing himself. Could be overconfidence but it reads a bit like being new on the job.

 

[IrishJedi]

Maybe, it's just that in the other books, he seems to be very cool and calculated and even ahead of the games whereas in Batman he seems to be almost learning as he goes and secondguessing himself. Could be overconfidence but it reads a bit like being new on the job.

Actually, I just re-read that awesome CBR interview with Snyder and it pretty much confirms my theory that Batman isn't meant to be new/green, he's just over-confident and the Court of Owls have the best of him right now, because they've been a part of Gotham much longer than him. This line in particular stands out:

The [Court of Owls] is something that is my interpretation of Bruce's Achilles' heel -- his confidence in his familiarity of the city, as its protector and its only legend and its savior.

Also, Snyder was planning this arc well before the New 52:

CBR News: Did you conceive the Court of Owls specifically for the launch of the New 52 or would you have told this story with Batman regardless?

Scott Snyder: No, I actually started thinking about this story back when I was on "Detective Comics." I was about halfway through my run when I started really putting it together as the next thing I wanted to do. I approached Mike Marts -- this was maybe three or four months before there was a New 52 -- and I told him I was really interested in this story that would pit Bruce against this historical enemy of Gotham. I wanted to use the symbol of the owl because of both the mythological baggage that it would bring to the Bat Universe and also because I felt like it was just a genuinely and objectively creepy symbol we could get behind for new fans also.

I told him the story, such as it was then, and he liked it and asked me, why don't I switch with Tony Daniel, because Bruce was going to come back and be in "Batman" and they weren't sure if ____ Grayson was going to be in "Detective" or not. So I switched with Tony -- he was excited to go over to "Detective" -- and a couple of months later, they were like, oh, and it's going to be "Batman" #1, which created a whole new level of anxiety and terror.

Luckily for me, at the end of the day, I'm very fortunate because a lot of people that I know had less time to prepare stories for things. Not that they were any way rushed, but it's just that I happened to be working on this story for a while before there was a New 52. So, back to your original question, yes, I would have been telling this story whether there was a New 52 or not.

So I think it's safe to say that the BATMAN title isn't in Batman origin territory, either.

 

[The Mike]

Also, Snyder was planning this arc well before the New 52

 

[IrishJedi]