Can we be classified as contemporary art collectors?

[Hulksmashed]

If you have to write a paper for University, don't you think you will get better results if you do a little research (Internet, libraries, etc) instead of asking these kind of questions in a forum?

The best research is going directly to the source. Books and online writings can only take you so far. If a person were writing a paper on the civil war and had access to a time machine...which avenue do you think would serve them better? Going and experiencing first hand, or reading a book?

 

[JosephCPR]

The best research is going directly to the source. Books and online writings can only take you so far. If a person were writing a paper on the civil war and had access to a time machine...which avenue do you think would serve them better? Going and experiencing first hand, or reading a book?

None and both of them.

Even personal experiences are subjective, as we are limited by our own knowledge of the reality that surrounds us.

That said, by researching through books or any other sources, you are exposed to other "realities" (opinions, points of views, emotions, ideologies, etc), and you are supposed to build one of your own, which ultimately is as valid as a "first hand experience" because, in fact, it becomes one itself.

 

[Hulksmashed]

None and both of them.

Even personal experiences are subjective, as we are limited by our own knowledge of the reality that surrounds us.

That said, by researching through books or any other sources, you are exposed to other "realities" (opinions, points of views, emotions, ideologies, etc), and you are supposed to build one of your own, which ultimately is as valid as a "first hand experience", because in fact, it becomes one itself.

100% disagree. Forming an opinion based on the opinions of others can never be as accurate as an opinion based on first hand experience. Even if your take on the experience becomes subjective, it's still subjective based on reality. That's not to say that you should close yourself off from differing point's of view, but building an ideology or position based on someone else's interpretations is dangerous at best. It's like whisper down the ally. You can form an opinion off of the message you receive, but you can't be sure that the message you receive was an accurate recap of the events in question.

By your assertion I should be just as capable of describing what Vietnam was like as a Vietnam Vet, or just as able to explain to someone else what walking on the moon is like as Niel Armstrong. If that is in fact true, why bother doing anything yourself. Just let others do it and read a book.

 

[Mr. Green]

I was wondering when someone would blow me up for that.. short answer is I've got all the boring research/journal/literature stuff covered. But I am (I hope) as avid a collector as most guys and gals here... I know this because my I deprive myself of most other things to afford this hobby, and I love it!

I'm asking the question here as I'm getting a lot more insight than what any journals can cover. Besides my actual paper is on how market prices affect demand/supply of contemporary art. It's dreadfully boring So I'm just trying to find out if we can actually be classed as contemporary art collectors , just so I can write something more fun and can justify putting a picture of the Black Cat LSB somewhere in my research

Ahhhh, now we're getting to the root of it all. Market prices and supply and demand!! Are you sure you're not writting a business paper? A flipper trying to get raw data and extrapolating for future investment? Lol, Kidding. May I suggest adding Hulk LSB to balance the Black Cat LSB?

 

[King Darkness]

People who over think their toys are weird.

 

[Mr. Green]

The best research is going directly to the source. Books and online writings can only take you so far. If a person were writing a paper on the civil war and had access to a time machine...which avenue do you think would serve them better? Going and experiencing first hand, or reading a book?

Ahh a great idea...where's my flaux capacitator??!!!!(from Back To The Future)
I would suggest not going to the civil war and get shoot but back a few years and buy every original print of Hulk, Superman, etc. Better yet, buy Microsoft stocks!!!

 

[Mr. Green]

People who over think their toys are weird.

Don't think my friend! Just sex, booz, and rock n roll!!!!

 

[fuzzylojiks]

I was wondering when someone would blow me up for that.. short answer is I've got all the boring research/journal/literature stuff covered. But I am (I hope) as avid a collector as most guys and gals here... I know this because my I deprive myself of most other things to afford this hobby, and I love it!

I'm asking the question here as I'm getting a lot more insight than what any journals can cover. Besides my actual paper is on how market prices affect demand/supply of contemporary art. It's dreadfully boring So I'm just trying to find out if we can actually be classed as contemporary art collectors , just so I can write something more fun and can justify putting a picture of the Black Cat LSB somewhere in my research

In that case, I would highly recommend you pick more clearcut contemporary art to write about. A subjective paper could take a turn for the worse in the eyes of the wrong person, and I would not risk that just to get a nice pic of BC LSB in.

 

[rushmore223]

If so then why could flipping be so lucrative? I've seen a seller buy a statue on eBay, and relist the same thing for over $1,000 more after just a few days. It sold. That thread is somewhere here on this forum...

I've never sold a statue for less than I bought it and I'm sold most for several hundred pounds more. Point I'm trying to make is that if you are a shrewd collector, your collection will appreciate, not depreciate in value over time as as demand increases for certain pieces.

And this applies to every type of art--modern, contemporary, classic etc., not all the sculpts and paintings catch on. Sometimes you get lucky though and market demand for a piece soars... if you are lucky enough to have that piece in your collection (think Grey Hulk PF, Doom PF EX, X-Men Dio 1 etc) then prepare for a killing when you eventually decide to list it

meethinks the value of these pieces goes way beyond whats in our hearts... it's actually monetary. if you know what you are doing.

PS - I've still got that question I'm hoping more of us would address

Just because it's lucrative now, doesn't mean it will continue to be.

Also, check out the secondary market for SS Star Wars and Indiana Jones, not so lucrative is it? And it seems like you keep associating monetary value with Art. Using Painters as an example, most artists works were actually close to worthless until long after their death.

A little over 10 years ago, i used to line my pockets by buying sought after toys and listing them on Ebay, anything from Hasbro 12" to McFarlane Movie Maniacs, and made quite a bit. Alot of these figures are worthless now, nothing about the figures have changed, just the interest in them is far lower than they used to be. I could also list a very obscure and rare poster on Ebay, one that might be considered to be worth thousands of dollars, but if nobody is looking for it at the time, it may go for next to nothing.

 

[Theokan]

I think while action figure is arguable, a statue by definition is an artwork. There's no such thing as a statue that isn't an artwork, just like a painting can't not be an artwork. Unless you're referring to some crap done by a phony artist, a statue pretty much is art by definition.

Now I don't think these statues are high art by any means, and I think lots of people who say this isn't art are confusing that since it's not high art, it must not be art at all. Just because it's in the toy category doesn't mean it can't be art. If Alex Ross's paintings are considered art, there's no reason why a comic book hero statue can't be considered art, as long as it's done by a real artist.

And to all those people saying this isn't art because you don't care for art, imagine how disheartening the artists would feel if they read your posts... you're basically saying that after dedicating their whole live learning how to sculpt so well, that they're really not artists after all because they choose to sculpt monsters and super heroes instead of naked men and women... and that coming from people who own their pieces, man that must really suck to be their shoe.

 

[rushmore223]

you can classify me as a badass mother____er, and anyone who calls me a "contemporary art collector" is gonna get a knock in the snout. now if you'll excuse me... i'm going to go redress my dolls.

nice.

 

[Hulksmashed]

Ahh a great idea...where's my flaux capacitator??!!!!(from Back To The Future)
I would suggest not going to the civil war and get shoot but back a few years and buy every original print of Hulk, Superman, etc. Better yet, buy Microsoft stocks!!!

Screw that dude. Have some FUN with the time machine! I'd go back and eliminate people that had wronged me while my past self was in a public location and incapable of being accused of the crime!

 

[worstgamerever]

In that case, I would highly recommend you pick more clearcut contemporary art to write about. A subjective paper could take a turn for the worse in the eyes of the wrong person, and I would not risk that just to get a nice pic of BC LSB in.

Hey mate, sorry if I wasn't being clear. This is just us freaks discussing... any views here will not detract from the objectiveness of my paper. That's mostly going to be neo-classical economics theory. This topic is just one I'm curious about as (like you rightfully suggested) it's not clear-cut even though I look at my collection, and go to contemporary art galleries and wonder to myself why my collection is any different from the sculptures, items, and memorabilia in those galleries.

It would appear that at least some of us are reluctant to class this hobby as art. But just looking at the banner at the top of this page, at least a couple of those pieces can easily be pulled off in a contemporary art gallery; it just takes the right presentation.

A little off point, but the sheer detail on the Dr Doom PF or the various connotations to say the Conan Prize diorama should put both in the contemporary art category. I think.

 

[JosephCPR]

100% disagree. Forming an opinion based on the opinions of others can never be as accurate as an opinion based on first hand experience. Even if your take on the experience becomes subjective, it's still subjective based on reality. That's not to say that you should close yourself off from differing point's of view, but building an ideology or position based on someone else's interpretations is dangerous at best. It's like whisper down the ally. You can form an opinion off of the message you receive, but you can't be sure that the message you receive was an accurate recap of the events in question.

By your assertion I should be just as capable of describing what Vietnam was like as a Vietnam Vet, or just as able to explain to someone else what walking on the moon is like as Niel Armstrong. If that is in fact true, why bother doing anything yourself. Just let others do it and read a book.

I agree that you can't base an opinion on others' opinions or points of views. I didn't want to mean different. But IMO (), you can't deny that your own interpretations are much influenced by external stimuli. Considering others' opinions/experiences (essays, biographies, narration of events,...personal opinions or points of view) as those stimuli.

What I meant was that by exposing yourself to a wide range of external "realities", you achieve to form/construct a whole new one, influenced of course by others' output, but developed by your own self.

 

[worstgamerever]

I think while action figure is arguable, a statue by definition is an artwork . There's no such thing as a statue that isn't an artwork, just like a painting can't not be an artwork. Unless you're referring to some crap done by a phony artist, a statue pretty much is art by definition.

Now I don't think these statues are high art by any means, and I think lots of people who say this isn't art are confusing that since it's not high art, it must not be art at all . Just because it's in the toy category doesn't mean it can't be art. If Alex Ross's paintings are considered art, there's no reason why a comic book hero statue can't be considered art, as long as it's done by a real artist.

And to all those people saying this isn't art because you don't care for art, imagine how disheartening the artists would feel if they read your posts... you're basically saying they're really not artists...

very good points. there are actually artist names to these sculpts; and someone raised a point about the Picassos and Rembrandts probably being willing to produce various issues of the same art if technology allowed them. While that's a hard one to conclude (as the limitedness of SS pieces for instance, make them unique and that I think is why Bowen cant also charge as much due to much higher ES despite being so well-known), it certainly brings food for thought.

And about the comparisons to Alex Ross' art, its funny you should say that... as its actually really nice compared to what you see sometimes at Tate Modern gallery in London. Sometimes even a letter, or a can of coke with matches etc form part of an exhibition

 

[Hulksmashed]

I agree that you can't base an opinion on others' opinions or points of views. I didn't want to mean different. But IMO (), you can't deny that your own interpretations are much influenced by external stimuli. Considering others' opinions/experiences (essays, biographies, narration of events,...personal opinions or points of view) as those stimuli.

What I meant was that by exposing yourself to a wide range of external "realities", you achieve to form/construct a whole new one, influenced of course by others' output, but developed by your own self.

Ok, I can agree to that!

 

[devilof76]

Wow. I'm so happy for nam and Prog. Everyone said it would never work.

 

[Mr. Green]

Just because it's lucrative now, doesn't mean it will continue to be.

Also, check out the secondary market for SS Star Wars and Indiana Jones, not so lucrative is it? And it seems like you keep associating monetary value with Art. Using Painters as an example, most artists works were actually close to worthless until long after their death.

A little over 10 years ago, i used to line my pockets by buying sought after toys and listing them on Ebay, anything from Hasbro 12" to McFarlane Movie Maniacs, and made quite a bit. Alot of these figures are worthless now, nothing about the figures have changed, just the interest in them is far lower than they used to be. I could also list a very obscure and rare poster on Ebay, one that might be considered to be worth thousands of dollars, but if nobody is looking for it at the time, it may go for next to nothing.

Ahh, the classic "Starving artist syndrome". Whos here want to grow up to be a starving artist trying to make ends meet?

You do have a valid point but it is greatly overshadow by a piece of art's extrinsic value over its intrinsic value. Although we all should be careful of over-hyped items.

 

[Mr. Green]

Screw that dude. Have some FUN with the time machine! I'd go back and eliminate people that had wronged me while my past self was in a public location and incapable of being accused of the crime!

Hmmm, you don't happen to be the Zodiac killer are you? Confess!!!!

 

[Hulksmashed]

Hmmm, you don't happen to be the Zodiac killer are you? Confess!!!!

most certainly NOT sir! I've never killed a constellation in my life!