Budget Stark - Why do Hot Toys figures cost more now, than 5 years ago.

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Just ran across this video, I wonder what others think about the points brought up? Not my video so if its a member's and you don't want it posted here then lemme know and i'll take it down.



A kid who doesnt really understand much about business, costs and licencing etc.

But I do give the guy a bit of credit for putting his opinion out there and also spending the time to do it. A lot of keyboard warrior without putting out a decent argument.

Who ever this youtuber is, I dont agree with you but well done for putting out your opinion.

Looks like he has taken down the video on his channel.
 
Going to try this again, since I didn't get the order correctly last time round, hopefully it's a bit more coherent this time:

Figures Company Steps to Making Quick Cash out of Consumers:
  • The Negotiation
  • The License
  • The Legal Date
  • The Sculpting and Revisions
  • The Master Mould Production
  • The Master Painting
  • The Approval
  • The Materials Gathering
  • The Templates
  • The Mass Production
  • The Painting in Numbers
  • The Quality Run
  • The Promoting
  • The Final Step

The Negotiation
The first and foremost step in every figure/ scale model production, acquisition of sole rights/ copyrights for mass reproduction of said item. With a lucrative deal in profits to be made from both sides of the companies, Hot Toys would have to compete with other companies on getting rights to reproducing Marvel's franchise characters. This is actually a standard process where most companies will present their portfolio to the intended company in the hopes of securing a production run. It's up to the tenderer, in this case Marvel to review and award accordingly based on their needs and directions.

The License
The license is as it is, a legal document that binds both company to an agreement, under which most of it is not revealed to the general public, but will cover a lot of items including release dates and limitations of the licenses. It is usually on paper an agreement that the awarded company can use the tenderer logo on their promotional materials. In short, they are free from any legal issues arising from using Marvel's logo, characters, etc so long they stay within the the agreement. The license is something Hot Toys have to pay for usage, and that does not comes cheap. The more companies tries to obtain the license, the likelihood of the licenses going through the roof.

The Legal Date
To prevent squatters (companies who sits on the licenses awarded) and I'm sure Marvel has learnt its lessons following from Fox Pictures and Sony Films, Hot Toys would have a date to work on the materials, and subjected to cut off dates. Marvel also has the rights to review the dates and adjust accordingly it sees fits. This is important so that Marvel do not have to wait a long time for the production turnover and prevent them from getting more profits than intended, as the initial surge of interests dies off after a while.

The Sculpting and Revisions
The main sculptors of Hot Toys (The A-Team) would reference from materials provided by the studio, run a 3D face scan of the actors/ actresses (or whatever they need to create a accurate sculpt) and create an accurate sculpt of the character. This is not something that is done within a day, week or month. It's probably a long process between the 2 studios as they attempt to communicate the best they can while revising the sculpt. For example, a Robert Downey Junior likeness for Iron Man 3 may run for a few revisions before it is agreed by Marvel and RDJ to go ahead for the Master Mould run.

Thus, to get it right and reduce the amount of time spent on each figure, the A-Team have to be accurate or quite accurate on the first revision. Sculpting is not as easy as it seems and it really involves a lot of time and redoing. The A-Team besides being talented in the first place, would need to spent years honing their skills, and those are not achievable by just themselves; and most probably they have to go on training, courses to improve their skills. All these? Supplied by Hot Toys of course. Wouldn't you balk at the idea that you have to take your money to further improve yourself if you are good enough to be recognized in the industry?

It doesn't just ends here, these sculptors are most likely poached (or tried to) all the time by rival companies, in an effort to get a star talent to head their projects and you know, provide better argument for The Negotiation. Hot Toys will have to spent a bit retaining the talents, while at the same time nurturing and discovering new talents to add to their pool. Ideally that's how a good business will be run.

The Master Mould Production
As suggests, its basically a final run before mass production of the sculpt. This is usually accompanied by minor revisions again, adjusting and inputs from the studio/character portrayals, etc. But in short, this is pretty close to production stage.

The Master Painting
The painting would also be done by the main sculptor first, again, based on their reference materials. It used to be slightly simpler which the face layer has just a few layers of painting and you call it done, but with wax like quality figures in recent times, it's layers and layers of adjustment painting. Did I mentioned that not so long ago most figures eyes are mostly just decals? It's not so simple now with recent headsculpts.

The Approval
The completed prototype would be subjected to the final approval from the studio and such. This prototype will be the basis for the remaining runs, and usually they called it the Master Kit. It can be... a few similar kits produced together depending on the situation (bigger production runs = more Master Kits needed) The approval is the crucial step because that's when the Mass Production can truly began. (No sane company is going to do a complete production run and only to get disapproved by the parent company, imagine the massive losses.)

The Materials Gathering
The materials are the first thing to be secured, this can be the plastics, , metal, resins and even the cloth needed for the costumes. The more complicated the figure, the more time and money is needed for securing these. Raw materials have steadily risen in price over the years and this will inadvertently affect the final pricing of the figure.

The Templates
These range from the body production to cloth production. All these need a template. The body, headsculpts and most accessories run through a Master Mould, which is basically a male and female mould containing the shape of the item usually, and hot resin/ plastic is passed through this mould.

A Master Mould usually costs quite a bit, cos as it suggests, it's the master and thus it shouldn't be discarded just after a few runs. HOWEVER, they do have a lifespan, since wear and tear happens, which would explain very much why Hot Toys in general have limited production runs for each figures.

There are a few explanations for this, namely it's cost prohibitive to produce another Master Mould after the initial production since the likelihood of obtaining maximum profits from the first run is not going to happen, after the interests dies off.

Keep the quality high for each figure run, which is very true for most Hot Toys figures.

And the least possible reason, keep the aftermarket price; since it's considered limited edition, ideal for collectors or hoarders.

Maybe in the early days, these are not so important since Hot Toys need to survive first, and they probably run till the Master Mould wears out and down but they have a reputation to keep now.

The clothes are another issue, since some costumes can be very intricate, there's a need for templates to be made, which reduces the overhead time and keep a steady rate of production. These are drawn up by artisans who will maximize the usage of the subject material space and plan properly.

I have to share though that the current 1/6 scale clothings are not easy reproduced, my mother who was a seamtress do not appreciate the fact that these are small to work with and normal human size templates scaled down to 1/6 just does not work. She speculates that some of the details of the clothings are probably specially engineered by a specialized machine/ template or even both to get the desired quality and fast production.

The Mass Production
The mass production is as suggests, production in high numbers, the machines will churn out the items, and the workers will get to work on the manual stuff, such as putting on the clothes, facial painting and detailing, things that machines will have a tough time or unable to reproduce in accurate amount.

The Painting in Numbers
The Master Kit is used as the defacto reference for reproduction by the factory workers. These are normal day to day workers who work long hours hoarded up in a factory painting your figures, applying decals, weathering, etc. They are your heroes, producing figures so that you can argue online whether it looks like Robert Downey Junior in actual hands.

The painting is usually true to the Master Kit, with small slight differences. They are very very labour intensive since these are small details the workers have to take note of. Compared to the Master Kit, which has spent a considerable amount of time on the input and output, these mass produced figures will pale in comparison, but damn if it still doesn't looks good. Except for a slight slipped up or two at times.

Most of these workers would have to undergo basic training on painting and assembly, and they will also be subjected regularly to training, similar to the A-Team. Most of the A-Team got their start from the bottom of the food chain, which is here. They get recognized, whether through their talents or efforts and moved up the career ladder.

It is imperative Hot Toys pays a lot of attention to these group, since they are the main driving forces before the final figure is packed into the box to be shipped. Retaining skilled workers and recognizing new talents is probably the most crucial thing for Hot Toys here.

The Quality Run
At this point, it's mainly quality checking and ensuring each figure looks almost identical to each other. This includes the packaging and materials. Most of the packing are outsourced usually to save time but the figures themselves would undergo some form of checks before packing.

You will have the occasional slip ups but it's understandable since the amount of figures and time needed to check each figure can be time consuming. Not to mention some issues don't get spotted until its out in the market. The good thing is Hot Toys do allow exchanges and are reasonable usually.

The Promoting
This doesn't really belong here, since by this time the promotion would have been long over by Hot Toys. MOST companies though, will run a promotion on their latest releases, followed by an expected shipping date. Usually this is within a few months ahead or just days ahead as they neared the release date.

In the case of Hot Toys, the prototype is used for the promotion first, followed by actual production runs, shipped to a few select known reviewers for their assessment and photography as additional promotional materials.

The Final Step
Finally, the shipping. The logistics, I shall not delve into as it's mostly debatable. BUT Hot Toys is just the producer and the distribution rights are maintained by them to the distributors. I noticed that certain figure has a higher markup than other countries and that could be usually due to the shipping logstics, taxes, distribution agreement (Distributor only took 1/100 of the production run, thus running higher in costs of the figure) stuff like that. It's really up to the distributor at this point in time.

Unless of course you are in Hong Kong. Then you can get from Hot Toys direct.

On a small side note: I reside in an Asian country, got my start in scale modelling first before collecting Iron Man figures, followed by a long break, and then restarted on this from DX 11 Joker and DX 12 Batman.

You are free to disagree with the processes, as I mainly took reference from the scale modelling industry largely. But these 2 areas run in a pretty similar fashion, I really don't see an difference from them except that the end product caters to different groups of enthusiasts.

Is the rise in cost justified? It is, to an extent. We may not know everything, but there's a lot of factors at play when it comes to rising costs. Many of use are new to the hobby and it seems we have a completionist attitude, which further drives the point that Hot Toys or other companies can charge whatever they want as there will be people taking it up, case in point, Iron Man Midas which is an convention exclusive and we see hoarders jacking the price up immediately after purchase. This is the same situation happening in sneakers release right now (The Air Jordans are the prime example)

My only advice to those who dislike the prices, don't place an order. NO DEMANDS, NO SUPPLY. Make a calculated decision before placing that order. Hot Toys or other companies are not taking a gun to your forehead and forcing you to buy. You have a choice, answer them with your wallet and naturally the price will be adjusted, in a while.

Now if I can have a dollar from everyone who seen this post it would be great. :pray:

TL : DR, Hot Toys priced this figures because they can, if you choose to ignore all the above stated points
 
Just ran across this video, I wonder what others think about the points brought up? Not my video so if its a member's and you don't want it posted here then lemme know and i'll take it down.



What is he talking about, Igor is only $100 :)
 
Great Vid Budget! I haven't read the whole thread but Budget and Motux hit some things right on the head.

I tried bringing up this point in the HT Vader thread with ppl complaining about the price and variation of the figure when compared to film. Just to give a bit of background on my opinion.. I've worked in the movie/tv/game industry for over a decade, and while I don't know much about how HT/SS does it, I do know a little something about licensing costs and control.

Using Star Wars as an example, I worked on a SW game a number of yrs ago (before Disney took control). The cost for just the license was in the millions, and they had total control over every aspect of how the models looked. So if they no longer want a model (figure) to look a certain way with slight tweaks here and there, then it's getting changed.

Thanks for all the informative vids Budget!
 
Herculean post, yasuo! Very informative.

Ljaat, in regards to Star Wars, did LFL ever have you tweak the model away from what it looked like on film? Just curious as there are so many rumours in regards to LFL and if they want the merchandize to closely resemble the actors as opposed to the 'character'.
 
Herculean post, yasuo! Very informative.

Ljaat, in regards to Star Wars, did LFL ever have you tweak the model away from what it looked like on film? Just curious as there are so many rumours in regards to LFL and if they want the merchandize to closely resemble the actors as opposed to the 'character'.

In regards to what I witnessed at the time.. no. I was just trying to point out that IF a change was wanted, then it would have to be made or it would never get approved. The game I worked on was a themed one that did not have all the main characters in it.
 
Going to try this again, since I didn't get the order correctly last time round, hopefully it's a bit more coherent this time:

Figures Company Steps to Making Quick Cash out of Consumers:
  • The Negotiation
  • The License
  • The Legal Date
  • The Sculpting and Revisions
  • The Master Mould Production
  • The Master Painting
  • The Approval
  • The Materials Gathering
  • The Templates
  • The Mass Production
  • The Painting in Numbers
  • The Quality Run
  • The Promoting
  • The Final Step

The Negotiation
The first and foremost step in every figure/ scale model production, acquisition of sole rights/ copyrights for mass reproduction of said item. With a lucrative deal in profits to be made from both sides of the companies, Hot Toys would have to compete with other companies on getting rights to reproducing Marvel's franchise characters. This is actually a standard process where most companies will present their portfolio to the intended company in the hopes of securing a production run. It's up to the tenderer, in this case Marvel to review and award accordingly based on their needs and directions.

The License
The license is as it is, a legal document that binds both company to an agreement, under which most of it is not revealed to the general public, but will cover a lot of items including release dates and limitations of the licenses. It is usually on paper an agreement that the awarded company can use the tenderer logo on their promotional materials. In short, they are free from any legal issues arising from using Marvel's logo, characters, etc so long they stay within the the agreement. The license is something Hot Toys have to pay for usage, and that does not comes cheap. The more companies tries to obtain the license, the likelihood of the licenses going through the roof.

The Legal Date
To prevent squatters (companies who sits on the licenses awarded) and I'm sure Marvel has learnt its lessons following from Fox Pictures and Sony Films, Hot Toys would have a date to work on the materials, and subjected to cut off dates. Marvel also has the rights to review the dates and adjust accordingly it sees fits. This is important so that Marvel do not have to wait a long time for the production turnover and prevent them from getting more profits than intended, as the initial surge of interests dies off after a while.

The Sculpting and Revisions
The main sculptors of Hot Toys (The A-Team) would reference from materials provided by the studio, run a 3D face scan of the actors/ actresses (or whatever they need to create a accurate sculpt) and create an accurate sculpt of the character. This is not something that is done within a day, week or month. It's probably a long process between the 2 studios as they attempt to communicate the best they can while revising the sculpt. For example, a Robert Downey Junior likeness for Iron Man 3 may run for a few revisions before it is agreed by Marvel and RDJ to go ahead for the Master Mould run.

Thus, to get it right and reduce the amount of time spent on each figure, the A-Team have to be accurate or quite accurate on the first revision. Sculpting is not as easy as it seems and it really involves a lot of time and redoing. The A-Team besides being talented in the first place, would need to spent years honing their skills, and those are not achievable by just themselves; and most probably they have to go on training, courses to improve their skills. All these? Supplied by Hot Toys of course. Wouldn't you balk at the idea that you have to take your money to further improve yourself if you are good enough to be recognized in the industry?

It doesn't just ends here, these sculptors are most likely poached (or tried to) all the time by rival companies, in an effort to get a star talent to head their projects and you know, provide better argument for The Negotiation. Hot Toys will have to spent a bit retaining the talents, while at the same time nurturing and discovering new talents to add to their pool. Ideally that's how a good business will be run.

The Master Mould Production
As suggests, its basically a final run before mass production of the sculpt. This is usually accompanied by minor revisions again, adjusting and inputs from the studio/character portrayals, etc. But in short, this is pretty close to production stage.

The Master Painting
The painting would also be done by the main sculptor first, again, based on their reference materials. It used to be slightly simpler which the face layer has just a few layers of painting and you call it done, but with wax like quality figures in recent times, it's layers and layers of adjustment painting. Did I mentioned that not so long ago most figures eyes are mostly just decals? It's not so simple now with recent headsculpts.

The Approval
The completed prototype would be subjected to the final approval from the studio and such. This prototype will be the basis for the remaining runs, and usually they called it the Master Kit. It can be... a few similar kits produced together depending on the situation (bigger production runs = more Master Kits needed) The approval is the crucial step because that's when the Mass Production can truly began. (No sane company is going to do a complete production run and only to get disapproved by the parent company, imagine the massive losses.)

The Materials Gathering
The materials are the first thing to be secured, this can be the plastics, , metal, resins and even the cloth needed for the costumes. The more complicated the figure, the more time and money is needed for securing these. Raw materials have steadily risen in price over the years and this will inadvertently affect the final pricing of the figure.

The Templates
These range from the body production to cloth production. All these need a template. The body, headsculpts and most accessories run through a Master Mould, which is basically a male and female mould containing the shape of the item usually, and hot resin/ plastic is passed through this mould.

A Master Mould usually costs quite a bit, cos as it suggests, it's the master and thus it shouldn't be discarded just after a few runs. HOWEVER, they do have a lifespan, since wear and tear happens, which would explain very much why Hot Toys in general have limited production runs for each figures.

There are a few explanations for this, namely it's cost prohibitive to produce another Master Mould after the initial production since the likelihood of obtaining maximum profits from the first run is not going to happen, after the interests dies off.

Keep the quality high for each figure run, which is very true for most Hot Toys figures.

And the least possible reason, keep the aftermarket price; since it's considered limited edition, ideal for collectors or hoarders.

Maybe in the early days, these are not so important since Hot Toys need to survive first, and they probably run till the Master Mould wears out and down but they have a reputation to keep now.

The clothes are another issue, since some costumes can be very intricate, there's a need for templates to be made, which reduces the overhead time and keep a steady rate of production. These are drawn up by artisans who will maximize the usage of the subject material space and plan properly.

I have to share though that the current 1/6 scale clothings are not easy reproduced, my mother who was a seamtress do not appreciate the fact that these are small to work with and normal human size templates scaled down to 1/6 just does not work. She speculates that some of the details of the clothings are probably specially engineered by a specialized machine/ template or even both to get the desired quality and fast production.

The Mass Production
The mass production is as suggests, production in high numbers, the machines will churn out the items, and the workers will get to work on the manual stuff, such as putting on the clothes, facial painting and detailing, things that machines will have a tough time or unable to reproduce in accurate amount.

The Painting in Numbers
The Master Kit is used as the defacto reference for reproduction by the factory workers. These are normal day to day workers who work long hours hoarded up in a factory painting your figures, applying decals, weathering, etc. They are your heroes, producing figures so that you can argue online whether it looks like Robert Downey Junior in actual hands.

The painting is usually true to the Master Kit, with small slight differences. They are very very labour intensive since these are small details the workers have to take note of. Compared to the Master Kit, which has spent a considerable amount of time on the input and output, these mass produced figures will pale in comparison, but damn if it still doesn't looks good. Except for a slight slipped up or two at times.

Most of these workers would have to undergo basic training on painting and assembly, and they will also be subjected regularly to training, similar to the A-Team. Most of the A-Team got their start from the bottom of the food chain, which is here. They get recognized, whether through their talents or efforts and moved up the career ladder.

It is imperative Hot Toys pays a lot of attention to these group, since they are the main driving forces before the final figure is packed into the box to be shipped. Retaining skilled workers and recognizing new talents is probably the most crucial thing for Hot Toys here.

The Quality Run
At this point, it's mainly quality checking and ensuring each figure looks almost identical to each other. This includes the packaging and materials. Most of the packing are outsourced usually to save time but the figures themselves would undergo some form of checks before packing.

You will have the occasional slip ups but it's understandable since the amount of figures and time needed to check each figure can be time consuming. Not to mention some issues don't get spotted until its out in the market. The good thing is Hot Toys do allow exchanges and are reasonable usually.

The Promoting
This doesn't really belong here, since by this time the promotion would have been long over by Hot Toys. MOST companies though, will run a promotion on their latest releases, followed by an expected shipping date. Usually this is within a few months ahead or just days ahead as they neared the release date.

In the case of Hot Toys, the prototype is used for the promotion first, followed by actual production runs, shipped to a few select known reviewers for their assessment and photography as additional promotional materials.

The Final Step
Finally, the shipping. The logistics, I shall not delve into as it's mostly debatable. BUT Hot Toys is just the producer and the distribution rights are maintained by them to the distributors. I noticed that certain figure has a higher markup than other countries and that could be usually due to the shipping logstics, taxes, distribution agreement (Distributor only took 1/100 of the production run, thus running higher in costs of the figure) stuff like that. It's really up to the distributor at this point in time.

Unless of course you are in Hong Kong. Then you can get from Hot Toys direct.

On a small side note: I reside in an Asian country, got my start in scale modelling first before collecting Iron Man figures, followed by a long break, and then restarted on this from DX 11 Joker and DX 12 Batman.

You are free to disagree with the processes, as I mainly took reference from the scale modelling industry largely. But these 2 areas run in a pretty similar fashion, I really don't see an difference from them except that the end product caters to different groups of enthusiasts.

Is the rise in cost justified? It is, to an extent. We may not know everything, but there's a lot of factors at play when it comes to rising costs. Many of use are new to the hobby and it seems we have a completionist attitude, which further drives the point that Hot Toys or other companies can charge whatever they want as there will be people taking it up, case in point, Iron Man Midas which is an convention exclusive and we see hoarders jacking the price up immediately after purchase. This is the same situation happening in sneakers release right now (The Air Jordans are the prime example)

My only advice to those who dislike the prices, don't place an order. NO DEMANDS, NO SUPPLY. Make a calculated decision before placing that order. Hot Toys or other companies are not taking a gun to your forehead and forcing you to buy. You have a choice, answer them with your wallet and naturally the price will be adjusted, in a while.

Now if I can have a dollar from everyone who seen this post it would be great. :pray:

TL : DR, Hot Toys priced this figures because they can, if you choose to ignore all the above stated points

I actually really enjoyed reading that. Thank you for taking the time to post as I like to educate myself.
 
Kill.......this.........thread.........


Which is worse..the guy that writes a long post but contains an actual thought....or the post moaning about the long post, and the thread? Maybe you don't care about certain aspects of these things, but there are those that do. The "boring" and "to many words" posts are childish and have no point. Don't like the topic, move on. Think a post is to long or the words to big, skip it. People care even less about you not caring then you do about a post you don't like. If you want to have a discussion, about what's said and not the person, please chime in. But if your whole contribution is basically white noise feel free to start a blog.
 
Anyone who has ever worked on a product production side can tell you that there is often so much that goes on behind the scenes it can make your head spin. It's not just what is sitting in front of you in a display case. I worked in the consumer electronics industry for several years working with television, settop boxes and wireless handset manufacturers. these are hugely competitive industries with high costs of R&D, personnel, manufacturing, distribution, etc. Ultimately you take all those costs into consideration and then figure a profit margin. Certainly when competition is weak and demand is strong you can enjoy a higher profit margin.

That's the enviable position Hot Toys has carved out for itself. They have huge costs, but they also have strong sales and a loyal and motivated core customer base. Customers are never going to be happy as prices rise. And I think part of this is the frustration of not being able to get all the great pieces they see coming out. But if you compare the improved quality and stronger likenesses that HT has been able to deliver in the past few years it's as a direct result of getting their systems and workflow down, hiring some of the most talented artisans in the business, and going after top licenses. The reality is we are paying for the "Lexus" of action figures. To me that's worth it. I'd rather have one high quality figure than three mediocre figures like those that were being produced years ago. But that's probably why I didn't get into this hobby until two and a half years ago. I do feel Hot Toys is watching prices and is trying to give their customers the best product possible for their dollars. But delivering that quality ain't cheap. Yes it's possible they may be enjoying a higher margin than they would if there was more viable competition in the market. But they aren't crazy. Intentionally pricing customers out of the marketplace makes no sense. Hot Toys is raising the bar rather than cutting corners. Id take that approach any day.
 
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Which is worse..the guy that writes a long post but contains an actual thought....or the post moaning about the long post, and the thread? Maybe you don't care about certain aspects of these things, but there are those that do. The "boring" and "to many words" posts are childish and have no point. Don't like the topic, move on. Think a post is to long or the words to big, skip it. People care even less about you not caring then you do about a post you don't like. If you want to have a discussion, about what's said and not the person, please chime in. But if your whole contribution is basically white noise feel free to start a blog.

I didn't realize I needed your permission to make a post. Oh wait.......I never said anything personal about a post or comments contained in a post.

Post containing relevant information is interesting reading however, people fighting about their knowledge of a subject shows zero character. No one posting here actually works for HT or has any impact on the pricing decision so it is pure speculation. Being angry and insecure because people don't agree or offer counter points is childish and that is when the thread needs to close.
 
I didn't realize I needed your permission to make a post. Oh wait.......I never said anything personal about a post or comments contained in a post.

Post containing relevant information is interesting reading however, people fighting about their knowledge of a subject shows zero character. No one posting here actually works for HT or has any impact on the pricing decision so it is pure speculation. Being angry and insecure because people don't agree or offer counter points is childish and that is when the thread needs to close.

Never said you need permission. Course that goes both ways.

You think people debating back and forth is childish...what would you call your post I commented on. And if it's asxbad as you think and no one should make a counter point, what was the point of your follow up post. You not only did the exact thing you complained about, but also the very interesting and complex three word and 26 period brilliant essay.

I wasn't entirly or only talking about your post, but others like it. A few people have a discussion more then a sentence long and over a couple pages and then there's five one liners (if the even get to a full sentence, sometimes it's a word) about how it's boring or who cares or like yours. Without taking offense of being pissy, what exactly is the point of that?

As for my other posts being pissy because someone disagrees. Feel free to go back and show me where I get upset about someone disagreeing. It's the personal stuff that irritates me. Don't agree that's fine. But call me names or a liar or make one liners then I have an issue. I wouldn't accept it face to face so I'm not accepting it online. I don't care if you disagree. Especially when it's opinion. But, I happen to have a bit of experience some people might not and I've gotten to the point where i felt I should say what I think or know. It's the Internet, take it as you want.

Edit-hey I shouldn't have gone so hard at your post. Wasn't all about you. I apologize for that
 
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U
Never said you need permission. Course that goes both ways.

You think people debating back and forth is childish...what would you call your post I commented on. And if it's asxbad as you think and no one should make a counter point, what was the point of your follow up post. You not only did the exact thing you complained about, but also the very interesting and complex three word and 26 period brilliant essay.

I wasn't entirly or only talking about your post, but others like it. A few people have a discussion more then a sentence long and over a couple pages and then there's five one liners (if the even get to a full sentence, sometimes it's a word) about how it's boring or who cares or like yours. Without taking offense of being pissy, what exactly is the point of that?

As for my other posts being pissy because someone disagrees. Feel free to go back and show me where I get upset about someone disagreeing. It's the personal stuff that irritates me. Don't agree that's fine. But call me names or a liar or make one liners then I have an issue. I wouldn't accept it face to face so I'm not accepting it online. I don't care if you disagree. Especially when it's opinion. But, I happen to have a bit of experience some people might not and I've gotten to the point where i felt I should say what I think or know. It's the Internet, take it as you want.

Again my post didn't specify a person however, it appears you took it personally. Rest assured, I am simply responding to a comment about my post. It is not a personal attack to you or anyone else in the thread. I have zero desire to be a keyboard hero.

I am familiar with debate protocol however, the confrontational tone used by "some" is unnecessary. Everyone has different background and experience in these matters but no one from Howard's War Room is posting here so folks who take their thought as gospel is really lame.

Folks sharing information and educating the rest of us in the process is awesome but those who want to argue about being right is childish. When a thread becomes more about who is right versus the sharing of information it is a candidate to close. That is my point and only point.
 
.....people fighting about their knowledge of a subject shows zero character.


Actually people who post uneducated rants about a market they barely understand are arguing with people who have worked in the industry and have first hand knowledge and experience
 
Actually people who post uneducated rants about a market they barely understand are arguing with people who have worked in the industry and have first hand knowledge and experience

Debates require facts... A lot of knowledge on the subject which sharing is great and educational but unless Howard's War Room is posting no real hard facts. As a result, the debating is based on speculation from experience etc. but shouldn't be considered gospel.

Share experiences and knowledge but don't hold that as fact to why HT, SS or any company makes their current decisions. It isn't questioning anyone's knowledge in the field moreso questioning without first hand knowledge of the company's strategy can anyone state their info is fact. Highly educated guess perhaps but not fact....pretty simple.
 
Your augment is upside down. The people that are presenting their info as fact are of the group that does not have experience in the industry, and the people that have worked in the industry are not misrepresenting their characterizations.

You are also over looking the fact that Motuxmen has started that he worked for SSC and has negotiated with Hot Toys.
 
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