Re: The First Avenger: Captain America Discussion Thread
Except that in the blending of Batman and Iron Man nothing changed in our world. Same with Hulk. They just dropped in those characters to the world we know exists.
They didn't replace all the cars in Iron Man with futuristic looking Minority Report self driven vehicles.
They didn't dress everyone in Gotham like a ____ Tracy character with bright yellow and orange zoot suits and exaggerated facial features.
They didn't give the guys fighting Hulk laser rifles and jet packs.
They did change virtually everything about Captain America's world instead of just dropping this character that can move and kick ass into Saving Private Ryan, they replaced real planes with X-Men Jets. Jets were not very common in WW2. They gave us fake looking non real motorcycles, wierd robotic looking villains with non existant star wars looking guns. Little personal covert submarines. They made him have "international" appeal, in other words they sold him out.
In reality, "blending" is exactly what they didn't do.
So back in 50's they strapped characters to rockets as the first shot points out, is that really what your defense of this movie is going to be?
They also said ducking under you desk would keep you safe from an atomic blast. We've come a long way. We don't accept the same things.
Batman, Iron Man, Hulk, successful and accepted.
Wolverine went full comic, went home empty handed. Never go full comic.
But again Spiderman and Supes were both the comic characters along with only there enemies. They are the only ones with access to this comic book technology and powers.
They were just like Batman, dropped into existing real world environments we are familiar with. With alot of regular people and locations we know, vehicles we know, its the familarity with these cities etc, and the crime and things we know happen there, that make the idea of this superhero work. We want someone to clean up the cities where we live and keep us safe.
The same principle applies, the Nazis weren't just an American enemey, plenty of people just wanted to see Cap storm a beach and kick some ass. Instead he is fighting people in suits? Or are they robots? Is it in 1944, if so why are there all these laser guns and stuff? Was that Tony Stark, is he being played by a new actor? I guess it isn't in the past then? Alot of regular people won't know these things man. It's confusing and strange and IMO won't work.
When the Iron man and Batman trailers came out people were talking. Yo man, new Batmans coming out and looks cool. I have not heard a single friend or anyone I know outside of the comic fan community mention Captain America.
I just had to come in here and back up Deckard. I completely agree with everything he's been saying. I don't think he's being critical or negative just for the sake of it. I think the more successful comic book movies stuck to the idea of not going "full comic", which I think helped make them more relatable.
I believe, like I think Deckard does, that the story of Cap would me much more compelling and interesting if it was more rooted in our reality instead of creating an alternate universe. There is more emotional investment with the audience if it feels more real. Think of how satisfying it was to have Iron Man visit Afghanistan and save that village from the oppressors. Or have Batman drop down in Hong Kong and extract Lau in such an awesome way that was still grounded in some kind of reality. Now think of how awesome it would be to have had someone like Cap in WWII kick all kinds of Nazi butt and perhaps saved hundreds of GI's lives in the process. Instead, we have Cap fighting a fringe group that have mini subs and super cars and motorbikes. Did we really need to create another world crisis on top of WWII? Was WWII not difficult enough? Were Nazis not evil enough? Were bullets and nuclear bombs not threatening enough?
Inglorious Basterds was fun and worked emotionally because up to the end, it was all set up to be real. It wasn't an alternate reality. So when the conclusion hits, you emotionally really feel like it happens, not that it happened in another time and place. And in Raiders, Indy is working in an outside story to history, but that is still grounded in reality. So when ghosts come out of the ark and kill all the Nazis, you really feel that satisfaction of justice. Even HellBoy, with the interdimensional machine and Kroenen, felt like it was more grounded in WWII reality than this does.
Having said all that, I think there was still the potential for the movie to have been good, despite it being so removed from history and reality. I really enjoyed League of Extraordinary Gents, another movie that takes place in a technically advanced past. I got into it and felt like it was a great story with great action pieces. But I'll also gladly admit that there was no real emotional involvement in it for me. It was just fun.
However, I have very little hope for Cap to be, at the very least, a fun movie. All because of one thing: Joe Johnston. If the director was Stephen Norrington, or Guillermo Del Toro or Alfonso Cuaron or any other capable director, then MAYBE there would have been a chance that despite the fantastical elements, the movie would have turned out good. I just have not faith in Johnston.
We all just want the best Cap movie there is, and I personally don't think this is looking like it will be. If it turns out brilliant, then great! We'll all be happy. And you'll all be even more happy to throw this back in our faces!
