Zack Snyder's Justice League

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For the 7 people who said I don?t want to have a discussion and even posted after I made this, I?m waiting for a reply.

I'm not one of those seven people, and you're well within your right to dislike the Snyderverse and post your opinion about it. But even though you're never going to appreciate his version of these characters yourself, I can give you my take (just like abake did a few posts earlier) on them. I'll tell you why these versions of their comics counterparts appeal to me.

I'm putting it all in spoiler tags because it's way too much of a wall of text to have to scroll through if you're not interested. But if you genuinely want to know why at least one person here enjoys the Snyderverse, I'm providing my experience with it. And if you don't care, that's cool too.

Spoiler Spoiler:
 
I'm not one of those seven people, and you're well within your right to dislike the Snyderverse and post your opinion about it. But even though you're never going to appreciate his version of these characters yourself, I can give you my take (just like abake did a few posts earlier) on them. I'll tell you why these versions of their comics counterparts appeal to me.

But if you genuinely want to know why at least one person here enjoys the Snyderverse, I'm providing my experience with it. And if you don't care, that's cool too.

I actually prefer superhero stories in comic book form rather than movies. A bunch of super-powered beings wearing absurd costumes and fighting equally absurd villains just plays way better for me in the pages of the comics. But the Snyderverse *does* appeal to me because the characters are used to greater effect for thematic takeaway than they are for plot execution. In the Snyderverse, characters like the DC Trinity are portrayed in a way that more closely resembles classic mythology than how even a mythology-inspired character like Thor is presented in the MCU.

You say that Snyder's Batman doesn't resemble the character in the comics. While I agree with you that Batman's code of not killing is central to the core of his most popular characterization, Snyder's Batman still has similarities to the very first Batman of the late 1930's (who shot guns and killed criminals), as well as to Frank Miller's older version of Batman. So, Snyder's version isn't completely disconnected from *very relevant* versions of his comic book persona. But more importantly, Snyder's version embodies a very similar purpose as the characters of classic mythology. There's a lot of value in that, and there always will be.

Snyder uses Batman almost exclusively as a counterpoint to Superman. You don't get the great detective, and a focus on the street-level grittiness, because those aspects of his character are not relevant to the dynamic being explored in these movies. That version of Batman has already been done to death by others. Snyder focuses on the part of Bruce Wayne that makes him Batman in the first place: The feeling of powerlessness to prevent loss and tragedy. The murder of his parents while he stood there ineffectively made him resent not just criminals, but the powerlessness that's part of being human.

Enter Superman. Another characterization plucked straight out of mythological ground. The alien who is not embraced and revered by his adoptive homeworld, but is feared and even resented. Superman embodies what Bruce Wayne will never have. If Bruce had godlike abilities, his parents would've been protected. Gotham would be safe. Batman could do more; much more! Instead, Bruce initially sees Superman the same way Snyder's Lex Luthor does: A god among men who poses too great of a threat to be left unchecked. And Bruce and Lex both resent Superman for being the godlike person they both wish they could be; because both were powerless victims as children.

All of this character dynamic is more interesting if themes are as important to you as plots. That's what makes mythology compelling. The characters are meant to project aspects about who we are and what makes everyone think, feel, and behave the way we do. There's also lessons being told in every story. Snyder's heroes and villains aren't the depictions you're used to, but part of that is intentional because they're being used in a more classic sense (but mixed with modern sensibilities and stylish embellishments).

In BvS, Bruce Wayne pivots from resenting Superman for being more than he can ever be to respecting Superman for the burden of being who he is (and the responsibility that comes with it). In JL, Batman brings the god back to Earth. That's his character arc. He goes from the adult who is still a wounded child filled with resentment to a man who doesn't feel threatened being in the company of gods (and working with them to better the world).

Wonder Woman and Aquaman are the reluctant heroes. The ones who are more like descendants of gods, but had reasons to turn their backs on being active protrectors of the greater good of mankind. Flash and Cyborg are the humans who were damaged by family tragedy; one wants to save his father while the other resents his. Both end JL more at peace, and with a new sense of purpose.

Everyone has an arc, and everyone has plenty of roots to their comic book origins. If it doesn't connect with you, that's perfectly fine. But if you try to find the value of the Snyderverse (beyond the fact that it's fun to watch from a stylistic sense), it's definitely there. Might not be your cup of tea, but that doesn't mean it's entirely crap.

Damn dude you made have to scroll thru all of that sheesh
 
I'm not one of those seven people, and you're well within your right to dislike the Snyderverse and post your opinion about it. But even though you're never going to appreciate his version of these characters yourself, I can give you my take (just like abake did a few posts earlier) on them. I'll tell you why these versions of their comics counterparts appeal to me.

I'm putting it all in spoiler tags because it's way too much of a wall of text to have to scroll through if you're not interested. But if you genuinely want to know why at least one person here enjoys the Snyderverse, I'm providing my experience with it. And if you don't care, that's cool too.

Spoiler Spoiler:

Beautifully put as always ajp.
 
What redemption arc is that though? ?I?ll ****ing kill you? is how this Batman ends up. Snyder is somehow redeeming him one moment then making him revert back the next? Batman is basically a wrestler now flipping between good guy bad guy? That isn?t Batman either because for Batman his code, his mission, is absolute. There is no questioning the man or his mission, regardless of what happens. This version of Batman doesn?t work. Snyder had it partially right in BvS with Batman?s distrust of Superman. He ruined it when Batman gives total trust to Superman. Let?s be honest, Batman would have shown up to Superman?s resurrection with a Kryptonite ring and Lois Lane basically as a hostage. What he pulled is something that is better suited for Barry Allen to pull.

Fair point, but I would put forward two thoughts:

1. The "I will ****ing kill you" line is part of the Knightmare, so potentially an alternate universe, and we don't know what's happened in-between anyway. If he'd said that to someone in the timeline of the movie, I'd be scratching my head as well.
2. You're basing your understanding of Batman on just one interpretation of the character. Granted, it's the most popular, but it's not the only one.
 
I’ll go one further than ajp on Batman.

He might rise to the occasion and work with the new gods but to not feel threatened by them and more importantly for the earth to never be threatened by them he will absolutely and cynically build a contingency plan against them.

So he’s still not fully trusting of these new gods and super beings he is really not the goody two shoes ajp is making him out to be lol

He even said it....

I am real when it is useful

I’ll work with these gods when it benefits my mission
 
Fair point, but I would put forward two thoughts:

1. The "I will ****ing kill you" line is part of the Knightmare, so potentially an alternate universe, and we don't know what's happened in-between anyway. If he'd said that to someone in the timeline of the movie, I'd be scratching my head as well.
2. You're basing your understanding of Batman on just one interpretation of the character. Granted, it's the most popular, but it's not the only one.

1. The Knightmare Batman have no code of conduct, he just want to complete his mission and send Flash back in time to save the world, it was his mistake that destroyed the world. This is the Batman in survival mode, he can't go easy because he is only human against Gods.
2. you're absolute right, i dont get why people can only see batman as show in the "superfriends" cartoon.

I love how Snyder did not make Batman try at all to stop Superman in JL, he is in a place of hope that if Superman tried to kill him, he would gladly die to make up his wrongs.
 
These 2 still bug me especially when they are the core premise of the plot!

Why did Cyborg hate his father for holding down a job.

Why did Superman allow his grief over Lois to make him weak willed against Darkseid corrupting him with the ALE so the entire world should pay for his loss.
 
These 2 still bug me especially when they are the core premise of the plot!

Why did Cyborg hate his father for holding down a job.

Why did Superman allow his grief over Lois to make him weak willed against Darkseid corrupting him with the ALE so the entire world should pay for his loss.

1. Cyborg was upset with his father because he blame his father for not being present in his life putting his job always in front of him.
2. He lost his everything, in the seconds that he was grieving Darkseid wins. Superman is no Spider-man.
 
Fair point, but I would put forward two thoughts:

1. The "I will ****ing kill you" line is part of the Knightmare, so potentially an alternate universe, and we don't know what's happened in-between anyway. If he'd said that to someone in the timeline of the movie, I'd be scratching my head as well.
2. You're basing your understanding of Batman on just one interpretation of the character. Granted, it's the most popular, but it's not the only one.

I wonder if the Knightmare dream was the doing of Martian Manhunter? Seems odd for him to fly to Bruce's house at that moment.

Also...

 
1. Cyborg was upset with his father because he blame his father for not being present in his life putting his job always in front of him.
2. He lost his everything, in the seconds that he was grieving Darkseid wins. Superman is no Spider-man.

I’ll give you the latter but for Cyborg I think I prefer that he blames his father for his mothers death over him him holding down a job lol
 
I’ll give you the latter but for Cyborg I think I prefer that he blames his father for his mothers death over him him holding down a job lol

I dont think its just that because when he understand what he is now, he forgive his father. Its a "you give more importance to your job than your own son, its your fault mother died in the acident and i became this dickless monster."
 
Lol that music got annoying real quick . I was so annoyed by the fourth time they played her theme
 
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