Captain Marvel - March 8, 2019

[Sassafras]

I am not supporting this movie i don't believe in people openly pushing agendas in my comic book movies.

THIS. Didn't care for it in BP either. Esp. when that kind of thing tends to over-generalize - like "all white men are *&^%; all white people are *&&^%, etc."

To their credit, comic book writers (tho am no expert) have been ground-breaking in their inclusiveness. Funny how that doesn't seem to get mentioned a lot, or loudly. MCU (and DC) whatever flaws they may or may not have, WERE just about telling a story. And while the MCU has touched serious issues before - IM, TWS, CW - it wasn't taking direct slaps.

Does an actor/director/producers world view color your enjoyment of a film?

Yes. There's been a few. If I found it offensive enough, don't get into a film the same way. 'Coz u can't turn your brain off depending. On some level, even if I like a film, I'm thinkin' "great film too bad he/she is a *&^% tho." Bad enough behavior, I don't support at all.

But, unless reviews had been off the charts, had no plans to go to CM anyway. Might've gone grudgingly at some point, like BP - way after release. Or not.

Coz, why the *&^% is this CM bein' stuffed into End Game again? Bull*&^%. She ain't needed IMO. Not with the players on board. Fury would've called her way back when Loki was causing trouble. So awkward from a narrative standpoint. Way back remember folks online getting excited about the prospect of X-men, TV series characters, FF, MAYBE showing up. Don't remember anyone asking for CM.

Just because Feige had his bean-counters and social media data miners spot some untapped gold and new sells (at least for the all-important box office opening weekend) doesn't mean I need to get on the train. Esp. when even the trailers look bland. Doesn't help knowing trailers often grab the most exciting part of a film - so far a flip onto a train, and some CGI blasts, and that's it? Oh, yeah - she got hard training and can't remember stuff and got enhanced *cough*.

 

[a-dev]

Sigh.

So this bit from the article Buffinator linked

As you may have expected, this has sparked a bit of a whiny backlash from a small, angry corner of the internet. Because of course it has. But it’s obvious to anyone with a non-festering brain that this is a good thing, and it’s cool to see Larson using her power to help provide access for marginalized journalists in a time when the profession is under fire.

Sure it's a good thing - assuming these people want the job and are qualified. If they don't want the job and they aren't qualified then they shouldn't just arbitrarily be granted jobs for arbitrary reasons but I assume that's not the case.

But, y'know, a handy way of avoiding the whiny backlash might just be to do all this inclusion stuff minus the public references to too many white men. It should be possible to do what you want to do without making it seem like white men as a group are a 'problem'. When you have 2 options and you know one of those options will cause the backlash - and that's the one you choose - you must bear some blame.

Ask yourselves, might we actually be doing something needlessly wrong here? Make the necessary adjustment and then see how it goes. Just try it on for size. And if white men still take issue with it, as I said yesterday, then you've probably identified the genuine arseholes. But you did it by a more careful process that didn't simply expect all good white men not to be offended when you intimate that white men are a problem. You can't say 'too many black people', you can't say 'too many women', you can't say 'too many jewish people' or 'too many *insert any other grouping*'

Be consistent within your own principles.

 

[loki2371]

I'm seriously getting tired of "white men" bashing. It's out of hand. I wasn't alive when groups of races/gender people were persecuted. I don't feel I should be held responsible for crimes of the past I didn't commit nor was a part of, or even alive during. Yet fore some reason I am forever part of that group.

Same with all the LGBTQ stuff. I was if anything a kid when it was taboo and frowned upon. And I have a sister that is married to her partner "IE Lesbian". Yet I have to listen to how I'm responsible for their social problems as well.

The media and outspoken people need to stop lumping everyone together. All WHITE MEN, All MEN.... FO..

 

[SwedishHeat]

As a white man, I have no problem with what she said. I simply find it unfortunate that people are upset about it.

 

[M United]

Well while i am Australian my background is Greek so really i am not the "white" person she is talking about. But it doesn't matter if she said white, black, asian, indian if she targets any audience for an agenda i have an issue with it even if its not me.

 

[The Buffinator]

I'm seriously getting tired of "white men" bashing. It's out of hand. I wasn't alive when groups of races/gender people were persecuted. I don't feel I should be held responsible for crimes of the past I didn't commit nor was a part of, or even alive during. Yet fore some reason I am forever part of that group.

Same with all the LGBTQ stuff. I was if anything a kid when it was taboo and frowned upon. And I have a sister that is married to her partner "IE Lesbian". Yet I have to listen to how I'm responsible for their social problems as well.

The media and outspoken people need to stop lumping everyone together. All WHITE MEN, All MEN.... FO..

As a white man, I have no problem with what she said. I simply find it unfortunate that people are upset about it.

While many of us may not have been around during outright persecution of or criminal activity directed at any particular race or gender group, we all live in a time where inequality still exists in terms of pay, privilege, access, etc.. We may not have had a hand in creating or perpetuating the predominantly patriarchal systems in our society, but most of us have benefited from their existence. I'm a white man too, and like SwedishHeat I have no problem with BL pointing out this situation exists. But while SH finds it unfortunate that people are upset by this, I just find it embarrassing.

 

[Robopredinator]

Every one saying "support the movie, in spite of BL" : You do understand that the *only* influence you have in such is your wallet correct?

If everyone supports the movie, BL is justified in her head, and Disney's SJW theme will continue to get worse. Only by backlash in sales do they "get it".


Every thing about the trailers has been very ho-hum, but I would have seen it in first week. No way in hell now.

Do you actually think they'll "get it" though? It seems like in the past, if a movie/show does poorly, they'll double-down and their cries of bigotry/misogyny/sexism/racism grows louder.

 

[KitFisto]

While many of us may not have been around during outright persecution of or criminal activity directed at any particular race or gender group, we all live in a time where inequality still exists in terms of pay, privilege, access, etc.. We may not have had a hand in creating or perpetuating the predominantly patriarchal systems in our society, but most of us have benefited from their existence. I'm a white man too, and like SwedishHeat I have no problem with BL pointing out this situation exists. But while SH finds it unfortunate that people are upset by this, I just find it embarrassing.

Cuck beta-male alert!

 

[Robopredinator]

While many of us may not have been around during outright persecution of or criminal activity directed at any particular race or gender group, we all live in a time where inequality still exists in terms of pay, privilege, access, etc.. We may not have had a hand in creating or perpetuating the predominantly patriarchal systems in our society, but most of us have benefited from their existence. I'm a white man too, and like SwedishHeat I have no problem with BL pointing out this situation exists. But while SH finds it unfortunate that people are upset by this, I just find it embarrassing.

Could you explain how society is inherently patriarchal and how exactly white males have benefited from it today?

 

[a-dev]

But while SH finds it unfortunate that people are upset by this, I just find it embarrassing.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Perfect comeback for...

"Oh, you think darkness is your ally. But you merely adopted the dark; I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but BLINDING! The shadows betray you, because they belong to me!"

 

[SwedishHeat]

"We've never had a female equivalent to Indiana Jones until now. Ripley was close, but not quite."

For those trying to follow along, Brie Larson never said the above.

Here is what she actually said

Keah Brown:Let’s talk about Captain Marvel. What do you think it means for young girls and people who identify as female to see this woman not need to be saved, but to do the saving and be the strong person in the face of so much adversity?

Brie Larson: ‘It’s so interesting, as it’s not something I thought about until 
I was in the cinema watching Wonder Woman. About two minutes in, I was sobbing and thought, “Why am I crying so much over this?” But it was seeing all of these warrior women who were so self-sufficient. That wasn’t something I identified with growing up – my hero was Indiana Jones. To have the chance to be one example of this is powerful and exciting.’

 

[The Buffinator]

Could you explain how society is inherently patriarchal and how exactly white males have benefited from it today?

I live in a country (the U.S.) where all men are created equal, it took @130 years or so for women to gain the right to vote and another 50 years or so before they would be seriously considered for anything more than domestic work or stenography. It doesn't get much more inherently patriarchal than that. That's not to say we still live in a purely patriarchal system, but clearly vestiges of it remain.

As for white males benefiting from it TODAY, please note that I used the past tense, not the present. Up to this point we've benefited because we had the majority of the high paying jobs, so we (generally speaking) had a head start on those women who joined our career fields. That's why on average we have been paid more for "doing the same job". When you have more seniority & experience, you naturally have had more opportunity for pay raises & career advancement opportunities. Now young white men entering the workforce today are probably (at best) on equal footing with their female counterparts. Hiring & promotions/advancement are based more than ever on merit, and if it's a toss-up between a white male and a "diversity candidate" you know who's winning the tiebreaker. I'm not saying that's fair, but I can understand how there's little sympathy when we complain about our plight.

 

[Robopredinator]

Thank you for at least acknowledging that women and men are on equal footing today. I acknowledge that women have had an uphill battle in the past and 70's feminism catapulted women to where they are now - that's great and welcomed. My issue is that we live in a society where there are no privileges men have that women don't and yet you have people like Brie cry misogyny from the mountain tops as if it's still a pervasive issue in society/workforce. Is patriarchy the reason why most STEM-related careers are held by men or is it perhaps because women find other careers appealing? Should the demographics of the country dictate the workforce population of every profession? If so, that' equality in outcome versus equality in opportunity. Brie is simply regurgitating the ubiquitous third-wave feminist rhetoric -like the wage gap myth - that's been failing to gain traction in Hollywood.

I don't really have a problem with Brie Larson but her comments are part of a growing rhetoric against white males specifically and I'm not surprised that people have had enough of it over the years. It's sad to say this but as there are times where I jokingly say to myself, "Thank God I'm not white."

 

[Popnfresh98]

For those trying to follow along, Brie Larson never said the above.

Here is what she actually said

(Can we still use this gif? )

Larson compares it to seeing Indiana Jones for the first time when she was young. “I remember losing my mind,” she says. Harrison Ford’s character became her ideal. “I couldn’t think of a female equivalent,” she says. “There was Sigourney Weaver in Alien, of course, but there wasn’t enough of that spectrum of confidence and sass and a little bit of a mess, just a mix of everything. Women weren’t allowed to do that.” When she got the first draft of the Captain Marvel script, she had finally found her female Indy.

You’re pulling from a different interview.

A simple google search turns it up as the top result, in an interview with instyle magazine. You might want to do more research before positively claiming and telling people something is false.

As for her statement, the perfect blend of confidence and sass and a bit of a mess already did exist in female form: Leia, who was there for years before Indy ever was.

 

[a-dev]

Thank you for at least acknowledging that women and men are on equal footing today. I acknowledge that women have had an uphill battle in the past and 70's feminism catapulted women to where they are now - that's great and welcomed. My issue is that we live in a society where there are no privileges men have that women don't and yet you have people like Brie cry misogyny from the mountain tops as if it's still a pervasive issue in society/workforce. Is patriarchy the reason why most STEM-related careers are held by men or is it perhaps because women find other careers appealing? Should the demographics of the country dictate the workforce population of every profession? If so, that' equality in outcome versus equality in opportunity. Brie is simply regurgitating the ubiquitous third-wave feminist rhetoric -like the wage gap myth - that's been failing to gain traction in Hollywood.

Speaking of embarrassment, I find present-day feminism embarrassing considering the much tougher time their predecessors had* and the vital things they had to fight for. Now it's 'micro-aggressions' and umpire decisions not going their way (Serena Williams a few months back).

*and that women in certain other cultures today still endure

Perfect comeback for...

"Oh, you think darkness is your ally. But you merely adopted the dark; I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but BLINDING! The shadows betray you, because they belong to me!"

It would be. Man, I love Bane's dialogue.

 

[SwedishHeat]

You’re pulling from a different interview.

Thanks for letting me know.

 

[xipotec]

I live in a country (the U.S.) where all men are created equal, it took @130 years or so for women to gain the right to vote and another 50 years or so before they would be seriously considered for anything more than domestic work or stenography. It doesn't get much more inherently patriarchal than that. That's not to say we still live in a purely patriarchal system, but clearly vestiges of it remain.

As for white males benefiting from it TODAY, please note that I used the past tense, not the present. Up to this point we've benefited because we had the majority of the high paying jobs, so we (generally speaking) had a head start on those women who joined our career fields. That's why on average we have been paid more for "doing the same job". When you have more seniority & experience, you naturally have had more opportunity for pay raises & career advancement opportunities. Now young white men entering the workforce today are probably (at best) on equal footing with their female counterparts. Hiring & promotions/advancement are based more than ever on merit, and if it's a toss-up between a white male and a "diversity candidate" you know who's winning the tiebreaker. I'm not saying that's fair, but I can understand how there's little sympathy when we complain about our plight.

Said better than I can....but

Could you explain how society is inherently patriarchal and how exactly white males have benefited from it today?

If you REALLY cannot admit to this, then thats the problem.

I am also the dreaded white male. My colleagues of equal standing and education get paid less then me. That is a FACT. Its a fact across most jobs.

Explain why that is? History is your guide. Women did not have a vote until 1920, and didnt even enter the workforce enmasse until 1960’s due to the expectation of being a stay at home mother and wife....woman STILL cannot hold every combat rank male soldiers can. They cannot be in the NBA, MLB or NFL.....they have to have a separate league.....

To disagree with the backlash is one thing but to call a guy out as a beta male , or just plain ignore the facts of history????? Then there is really nothing to talk about with such a person.....

Sad we live in an age , with all the available technology and instant information, and people still cannot see facts.





Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

They cannot be in the NBA, MLB or NFL.....they have to have a separate league.....

Wut?

They're not good enough.

 

[Robopredinator]

Said better than I can....but



If you REALLY cannot admit to this, then thats the problem.

I am also the dreaded white male. My colleagues of equal standing and education get paid less then me. That is a FACT. Its a fact across most jobs.

Explain why that is? History is your guide. Women did not have a vote until 1920, and didnt even enter the workforce enmasse until 1960’s due to the expectation of being a stay at home mother and wife....woman STILL cannot hold every combat rank male soldiers can. They cannot be in the NBA, MLB or NFL.....they have to have a separate league.....

To disagree with the backlash is one thing but to call a guy out as a beta male , or just plain ignore the facts of history????? Then there is really nothing to talk about with such a person.....

Sad we live in an age , with all the available technology and instant information, and people still cannot see facts.





Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

Thanks for the history lesson and the intriguing idea of throwing women into the NFL but the wage gap is a myth. The idea that women are getting paid less for the same job is FALSE. Your case of being paid more than your colleagues is anecdotal evidence. There is a lifetime earnings gap that is explained by a few factors such as men typically choosing higher-paying professions, working more hours during the week, more likely to take on over-time, taking less days off, choosing high-risk positions. Studies show that men tend to focus more on their career and women focus more on their family.