Collectible figures and censorship??

[EVILFACE]

Doesn't bother me at all. It's history. Make it as accurate as possible.

If you don't like the it, don't look at it.

 

[screamingmetal]

There are degrees of injustice. "Eugenics" having "a presence" is one thing ... the wholesale extermination of millions of people via ovens in concentration camps is quite another. I do not understand the need of some to equate the United States with the worst regimes in the history of the world -- apparently up to, and including, the Nazis. Completely ridiculous. There is no comparison.

SnakeDoc

I'm not saying the United States is evil just that some REGIMES of the US were evil. It's comparing regimes of the US with regimes of Germany.

Degrees of injustice don't matter to those that were wronged. And I get creeped out when people try to compare numbers to see which is the worst. Does it matter that The US only killed somewhere between 2500-5000 Native Americans on the Trail of Tears and not more, or that the terrible thing was done in the first place?
The US isn't a evil regime today but has at times been in it's past. To me, I find it equally disturbing to have a picture of Andrew Jackson on our twenty dollar bill as it would be for someone to have a Nazi doll on their shelf.

 

[DeltaForceChung]

To me, I find it equally disturbing to have a picture of Andrew Jackson on our twenty dollar bill as it would be for someone to have a Nazi doll on their shelf.

--

One must wonder how many Andrew Jackson twenty dollar bills were spent on a 1:6 Nazi doll/figure or any equally controversial doll/figure.

 

[DPrime]

All depends on context, I guess.

Which brings me to my next point, do you think it is in good taste to keep Nazi, terrorist, Viet Cong, etc. figures up on display if you have friends that might be offended by them. (i.e. Jewish, South Vietnamese-American, African-American)

One of my relatives has a rebel flag in their room but removes it when their African-American friends visit. Is that hypocrisy or just good manners

Personally, I think it's just good manners.

 

[Cryoguns]

It isn't arguable that the British Empire or the United States are just as evil as the Nazis. Segregation is not comparable to the Holocaust. If nothing else, the survival rate for victims is a lot higher among those that suffered American injustices instead that of the Nazis.

I'm sure Native Americans will be happy to know that, as would African American slaves. Our country does have history prior to WWII, you know. Figures also do exist of cowboys, "Indians", US Cavalry, and the US Civil War as well.

With regards to the south, I don't have as big an issue with the confederate flag. This is moreso because I grew up with the "Dukes of Hazzard" and the bars n' stars across the top of the General Lee. Because of that, the confederate flag means something different to me than it would somebody who would be historically offended by it. That tied an association with me of the confederate flag with the type of values shown by the Dukes. A couple of years ago, AMT/ERTL re-released one of the Dukes of Hazzard model kits WITHOUT the decal of the confederate flag on top (and removed from the box art), citing reasons that people may be offended. I thought that was taking censorship too far.

With Nazi figures, my collection is geared mostly towards movie figures. I've only bought a couple of historical/military figures (DML's astronaut Buck and Vietnam Russell are the only two I remember). However, I did have a custom Nazi uniform Kroenen. In the context of the movie, it didn't bother me. I eventually did sell it for space reasons.

 

[devilof76]

The U.S. was at war with the Native Americans and it was not a one-sided war. I think it would be a stretch to say that the colonists started it, although it has long been fashionable to blame them.

Fact is, the tribes lost the war. I'm not excusing crimes committed by the U.S. government or its citizens in that period of history, but comparing the U.S. to the Third Reich based on the conflict with the native tribes is completely wrong. I'd call it hyperbole, but the word isn't big enough to encompass how false the comparison is.

 

[surfin4]

the road to hell is paved with good intentions.......keep it real

 

[devilof76]

You should write fortune cookies.

 

[Blackthornone]

The U.S. was at war with the Native Americans and it was not a one-sided war. I think it would be a stretch to say that the colonists started it, although it has long been fashionable to blame them.

Fact is, the tribes lost the war. I'm not excusing crimes committed by the U.S. government or its citizens in that period of history, but comparing the U.S. to the Third Reich based on the conflict with the native tribes is completely wrong. I'd call it hyperbole, but the word isn't big enough to encompass how false the comparison is.

The colonists invaded their land and took over their hunting grounds. The U.S. government broke about every treaty they ever made with the native peoples. Everything the native peoples did was in defense of themselves and their land.

 

[Adrosi]

The colonists invaded their land and took over their hunting grounds. The U.S. government broke about every treaty they ever made with the native peoples. Everything the native peoples did was in defense of themselves and their land.

PWNT!!!!!!

 

[SnakeDoctor]

The colonists invaded their land and took over their hunting grounds. The U.S. government broke about every treaty they ever made with the native peoples. Everything the native peoples did was in defense of themselves and their land.

Heh. The War of American Indian xenophobia ... the first American anti-immigrant advocates.

A war between Native Americans and American settlers is not comparable to the Nazi Holocaust, trendy as the self-hating comparison might be. Native Americans were not exterminated. They were outnumbered in a two-sided war -- which arose from a conflict of culture between free settlers and nomadic tribes over sparsely-occupied nomadic lands. They lost the war. Hell, many died of diseases incidentally introduced by settlers. That isn't a genocide; it is an accident of biology. Sad story. Tragic. Not a genocide.

Land was not stolen. It was settled. I suppose there is an argument that the land was conquered -- though it was never invaded, and nobody landed here with the intention of going to war. Either way -- settled or conquered -- it ain't a holocaust. Lands have been conquered since the beginning of time. It ain't always pretty, but it happens ... human nature. Still not comparable to the Nazi holocaust.

SnakeDoc

 

[thenammagazine]

I dunno, intentions or not, if people are digging up Native American artifacts, skeletons, etc., in their back yards, your argument suddenly fails, doesn't it?

The fact is, our government pilfered their lands from them, violence or no, and gave them ____ land to live on afterwards, completely obliterating a society for personal gain. Then, when they found out those lands had oil on them, they stole those lands and gave them even ____tier lands to call home. Let's not forget that they also hunted sacred animals to near extinction and then told the Native Americans that they're only able to hunt a limited amount for their rituals, etc., because of said threat of extinction.

Honestly, it's been long over and done with and in today's America, people are who they make of themselves. But don't make light of the situation and blow it off like it was nothing. It was rape, plain and simple.

 

[Adrosi]

Mass graves are still being dug up.

 

[devilof76]

Oh, look...a mass grave in Germany...and a mass grave in America. They must be the same thing. Also, your toilet is a throne, just like the pharoah's.

 

[thenammagazine]

Oh, look...a mass grave in Germany...and a mass grave in America. They must be the same thing. Also, your toilet is a throne, just like the pharoah's.

So you don't see someone kicking in your front door, stealing your home, stealing all your food, then telling you how to live and forcing you to live in a dumpster, starting a fight?

 

[devilof76]

They didn't own North America.

In most cases, they didn't even have a concept of private property. There wasn't even a unified 'they'.

Nomads are always going to have issues with fixed settlements, and they're never going to have a valid claim if all they can come up with is "we were here last year" (and my father was here before that, and his father, and his father, etc.).

Once they decide to start massacring settlers in the night, all bets are off.

 

[Adrosi]

Well that's settled then...
Might as well just start a scalp collection.

 

[ILUVSkinner]

It's not about the numbers, it's just about the injustices.
Eugenics also had a presence in the US before the Nazis started doing the same.

Same in France, which had IQ tests to weed ''inferiors'' out for sterilization. The ''Fin de siècle'' nonsense of the late 19th Century and early 20th Century lead to the horror of the 20th Century.

That said, NAZIs were the worst for the simply reason that they had a whole ideology based around racial purity and killed people simply because they thought they had different genetics. But this does not excuse the US, UK, France etc. obviously.

 

[Blackthornone]

Heh. The War of American Indian xenophobia ... the first American anti-immigrant advocates.

A war between Native Americans and American settlers is not comparable to the Nazi Holocaust, trendy as the self-hating comparison might be. Native Americans were not exterminated. They were outnumbered in a two-sided war -- which arose from a conflict of culture between free settlers and nomadic tribes over sparsely-occupied nomadic lands. They lost the war. Hell, many died of diseases incidentally introduced by settlers. That isn't a genocide; it is an accident of biology. Sad story. Tragic. Not a genocide.

Land was not stolen. It was settled. I suppose there is an argument that the land was conquered -- though it was never invaded, and nobody landed here with the intention of going to war. Either way -- settled or conquered -- it ain't a holocaust. Lands have been conquered since the beginning of time. It ain't always pretty, but it happens ... human nature. Still not comparable to the Nazi holocaust.

SnakeDoc

Not a genocide?? What about the U.S. government deliberately giving the native people smallpox infected blankets with the intent of giving them a disease they knew they had no immunity to in order to wipe them out and kill all of them? Hmm? What about the deliberate killing of most of the Buffalo, which was the native peoples staple in their diet, which the government knew would starve them to death? This they did in part to clear the lands to make grazing land to supply beef to rich English beefeaters, by the way.
No one landed here with the intention of going to war only because they thought they could just push the native peoples aside with mere intimidation. How many hundreds of thousands of the native peoples died as a result of the European invasion? What about that Manifest Destiny imperialism? The U.S. government knew that the land they wanted to take over was hundreds of thousands of people
's home, and so they forced them to move en masse on the Trail Of Tears, where thousands died.
It was a war, and it was a genocide. It was a genocide by design with the smallpox infected blankets and the killing of the buffalo.

 

[thenammagazine]

They didn't own North America.

In most cases, they didn't even have a concept of private property. There wasn't even a unified 'they'.

Nomads are always going to have issues with fixed settlements, and they're never going to have a valid claim if all they can come up with is "we were here last year" (and my father was here before that, and his father, and his father, etc.).

Once they decide to start massacring settlers in the night, all bets are off.

So I guess everybody with a winter and/or summer home isn't entitled to their "property" given they're nomadic, right? So by that rational, the homeless can acquire your property by right since because you have "seasonal" property. Up until a decade ago, New Jersey didn't have a law regarding incest. California didn't have laws against necrophilia until Schwarzenegger took office. Does that make it right?