Temple Of Doom Fans

[Shadow Master]

That's like proto-Indy, in a way.

 

[Shadow Master]

The only thing about TOD I ever took issue with was making it a prequel to Raiders. Not even really issue per say, I just feel it flows better when watched after Raiders. Raiders is more subdued with it's pacing but TOD is just a rocket from start to finish with it's pacing that when watching Raiders after you have to wind down, if that makes any sense. I usually watch TOD after Raiders as I feel they flow better that way.

Of course there's also the problem of Indy saying he doesn't believe in the supernatural in Raiders, but I always chalked that up to him simply not wanting to have his teaching credentials revoked from the university staff from telling what he saw and experienced at Pankot, so he said he didn't believe simply as a cover more than anything.

 

[Mad Old Lu]

WOW! That is amazing detective work, Kuat! Thanks for posting all that! Very informative!

 

[Shadow Master]

It seems after TOD the series lost some of it's pulpy feeling it had so much with the first two. Raiders and especially TOD both have that feeling of being like the vintage adventure serials come to life and TOD also has it's EC Comics flare going for it. It'd be great for the fifth to bring back that feeling.

 

[Dash]

It seems after TOD the series lost some of it's pulpy feeling it had so much with the first two. Raiders and especially TOD both have that feeling of being like the vintage adventure serials come to life and TOD also has it's EC Comics flare going for it. It'd be great for the fifth to bring back that feeling.

 

[Shadow Master]

That's another thing I found lacking about the latter two Indy films in hindsight, for some reason they lost the pulp feeling the first two had. Raiders and TOD both felt like the classic vintage pulp adventure stories come to life. I never got that feeling from TLC or KOTCS, for some reason. Although KOTCS at times had it moreso than TLC. That was such a huge part of what worked about the first two to begin with and they'd be wise to bring that back for 5.

The vintage pulp style and dark mood for me is a must for Indy 5. Some people dislike TOD's darker tone but for me that's part of it's strength. I love that it gets so unflinching dark and malevolent with it's tone which for me gives it a feeling of danger and foreboding the other films barring Raiders are lacking. I always thought making TLC much lighter and more comical was a mistake and a kneejerk reaction to the TOD backlash.

 

[Shadow Master]

The Tales From The Crypt/EC Comics similarities TOD has just reminded me how none other than Short Round himself was actually in a TFTC episode, Undertaking Palor from Season 3. One of my favorite episodes from the show. Pretty awesome to have both an Indy movie and a TFTC episode on your resume.

 

[Khev]

The only thing about TOD I ever took issue with was making it a prequel to Raiders. Not even really issue per say, I just feel it flows better when watched after Raiders. Raiders is more subdued with it's pacing but TOD is just a rocket from start to finish with it's pacing that when watching Raiders after you have to wind down, if that makes any sense. I usually watch TOD after Raiders as I feel they flow better that way.

Of course there's also the problem of Indy saying he doesn't believe in the supernatural in Raiders, but I always chalked that up to him simply not wanting to have his teaching credentials revoked from the university staff from telling what he saw and experienced at Pankot, so he said he didn't believe simply as a cover more than anything.

Yeah, I never got why they felt the need to make TOD a prequel to Raiders. At first I thought it might be because they wanted to suggest that he and Marion lived happily ever after but obviously that went out the window with TLC. And the pistol vs. swordsman gag is pretty goofy in reverse since Ford obviously plays it as if he were remembering his encounter with the Cairo Swordsman.

 

[Shadow Master]

I believe Spielberg and Lucas opted to make it a prequel to go for a different adversary other than the Nazis, but they could've still done that even during the Nazi years. The Nazi regime was still active during 1935, when TOD takes place. Which sort of makes Spielberg and Lucas' intention moot.

 

[Khev]

I believe Spielberg and Lucas opted to make it a prequel to go for a different adversary other than the Nazis

You're right, I found an interview where Lucas says as much:

We made Temple Of Doom a prequel because we didn't want to use the same bad guys. We had ideas about the Monkey King. We had ideas for a haunted-castle movie but then Steve had just done Poltergeist and said, "I don't wanna do that again." We were struggling to come up with another MacGuffin. We couldn't find anything as good as the Lost Ark. We ended up with the Sankara Stones, which was a little obscure.

https://web.archive.org/web/20080808115736/https://www.empireonline.com/indy/day10/

The rest of the article is pretty interesting too. Funny that Capshaw and Spielberg think that it sucks and was only good for bringing them together while Ford still loves how dark they made it, he's the man.

I though this bit was interesting considering Kathleen Kennedy's mindset compared to George's in light of her current studio clout vs. back then:

Capshaw: I don't think there was a good review. I was blind-sided by it. The thing that surprised me the most was that the critics, women critics in particular, were very critical of Willie Scott, as if we were making a political statement and I was doing nothing for my sisters. I found it odd that it was an action-adventure film and we were meant to be doing message work.

Kennedy: You really think I'm going to enter a discussion about Willie as a female role model when Willie is now Steven's wife? You don't wanna go there.

Big shocker that Kennedy didn't care much for Willie Scott.

 

[Shadow Master]

It's a shame how both Spielberg and Capshaw hate TOD. I bet that probably plays a big role in the disliking it gets, especially since Spielberg is so hard on it. I got to wonder if his views on it would be better if not for the backlash it got at the time. When you think of vintage Spielberg, Indy comes to mind right away, but especially moreso the first two movies when Spielberg had more of an edge to his style.

 

[Khev]

Honestly with Spielberg being such a faint shadow of his former directing self I don't consider the fact that he still disowns the movie today as being very damning. Not too unlike Lucas disowning the theatrical OT IMO. But I do remember him publicly apologizing for the violence not too long after it came out (back when he *was* still at the top of his game) which only added to the momentum of backlash against it.

 

[Shadow Master]

He's said he made TLC to apologize for TOD, which is so silly to me. I always have to wonder how the post-TOD Indy films might've been like if not for the TOD backlash. It seems he took it really hard. It's unfortunate because TOD is one of the very first films of his that comes to mind when I think of him and it's him firing on all cylinders. Regardless of his preference for TLC, it doesn't show with the directing which compared with TOD is much more by the numbers whereas TOD has so much more energy, style and atmosphere by contrast.

 

[Khev]

I wonder if he's just bitter that the film was infused with so much of George's (negative post-divorce) energy and not his combined with the fact that it features Ford making out with his wife. Because it's just such a fantastic roller coaster ride of a movie (I've even found myself wondering if describing adventure films as "roller coaster rides" was coined after TOD's mine cart chase, does anyone know?) that is just so unapologetically dark and gruesome in parts that it makes the characters' escapes so much more exhilarating as a result.

I just find it funny that Spielberg himself felt the need to apologize for a film that itself made no apologies. He complained that it "out poltered Poltergeist." Another great film that every kid wanted to see even though they knew in advance that it'd most likely give them nightmares for weeks on end. TOD is just so damn unique. What other semi-family oriented blockbuster features a main hero who punches/hits innocent women *and* children in the same movie? And in a way that doesn't taint the character no less? That film is pure magic.

 

[Shadow Master]

I know both Spielberg and Lucas went through a rough time at the time they made it and they likely is part of why the movie is so dark and mean-spirited much of the time, but it's unfortunate if that clouds their views of the film. Didn't the even apologize for it on an intro for a DVD release or something? They regard the film as if it's a skeleton in the closet.

 

[Khev]

Yeah Spielberg pretty much said point blank on the DVD set that the only thing he liked about it was that he got to meet Capshaw. And it looks like as recently as last year he was still bitching about it when being interviewed for an HBO documentary, claiming that TOD was worse than TLC and even KOTCS.

Oh well, I'd much rather him disown the movie outright than try to go back and "fix" it. I'm glad that he quickly came to his senses after the E.T. Special Edition debacle.

 

[Shadow Master]

I never saw the E.T. Special Edition and methinks I should keep it that way. I've read about the changes made and it's ridiculous he felt the need to do that.

It's too bad he's so down on TOD, I bet that's probably played a massive role in it's negative reception over the years. I wonder how he'd react if a fan came up to him and told him it was their favorite of the series and a life-changing film for them?

 

[Khev]

I never saw the E.T. Special Edition and methinks I should keep it that way. I've read about the changes made and it's ridiculous he felt the need to do that.

Yeah the changes were terrible. Thank God that the new version was unceremoniously erased from circulation after its initial DVD release (it was excluded from both the blu-ray and 4K home releases and when it airs on TV it's always the 1982 version.)

It's too bad he's so down on TOD, I bet that's probably played a massive role in it's negative reception over the years. I wonder how he'd react if a fan came up to him and told him it was their favorite of the series and a life-changing film for them?

Based on his regret for updating E.T I think he still "gets" that films transcend directorial ownership once they imprint on other people's lives. I bet he'd be cool enough to appreciate the compliment even if he wouldn't understand what a fan sees in that film. He's always come across as nothing if not gracious and kind in real life.

 

[Shadow Master]

I own the Blu-ray and when I first watched it I was relieved to see it was the original unedited 1982 cut.

He might be taken aback if a fan told him TOD was their favorite and a life-changing movie for them, but in a good way. I believe it was the first film of his I ever saw, when I was only about 2 or 3, and at that age it totally blew me away and left a mark on me. Movies like it inspired me to want to get into the film business, someday. I doubt his opinion on it would sway very much if someone told him such a thing but I'd hope he'd look at it in a better light seeing it might have that much of an impact on somebody else.

 

[Khev]

Yeah he's so overly sentimental (often times to a fault) that I could actually see him rethinking his stance on the film if someone like yourself said that to him. It's weird because he acknowledges point blank that he over-reacted to some people's criticism of E.T. but seems incapable of doing the same for TOD:

For myself, I tried [changing a film] once and lived to regret it. Not because of fan outrage, but because I was disappointed in myself. I got overly sensitive to [some of the reaction] to E.T., and I thought if technology evolved, [I might go in and change some things]…it was OK for a while, but I realized what I had done was I had robbed people who loved E.T. of their memories of E.T. […] If I put just one cut of E.T. on Blu-ray and it was the 1982, would anyone object to that? [The crowd yells “NO!” in unison.] OK, so be it.

https://www.slashfilm.com/steven-spielberg-regrets-altering-et-raiders-hit-bluray-original-forms/

What's funny is that he made the above quote during a screening of Raiders with *Lucas and Ford sitting right next to him*. I wonder if he was partly trying to publicly shame George into rethinking his stance on the original release of Star Wars. Maybe it's part of the reason George turned a blind eye to the Harmy edits, lol.