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lcummins said:
Looking back over my years of collecting, I have witnessed a disturbing trend in the collectibles hobby. It began with baseball cards. Rookie cards were promoted as rare and highly collectible while all the time they were being printed in the millions, usually at multiple rates of the normal base cards. Then manufacturers began using “chase” cards to promote pack and box sales. They would artificially create rarities, to produce a “buzz” for their product and spur after-market sales. Finally, card grading and slabbing took hold, and a mint condition card that was slabbed, could fetch magnitudes more that the same un-graded mint card. Result, the bottom fell out of the baseball card market. While prices on older material continued to climb, newer material from the 80’s onward hit new lows and rookie cards that once fetched thousands dropped to hundreds or below. Many baseball card collectors called it quits and departed because the hobby wasn’t fun anymore. The hobby is still recovering to this day.

Move on to comic books, and the same trends developed. Number one issues and origin issues were the “rookie cards” of comics. The manufacturers began producing rarities by issuing comics with multiple covers, some being printed in much lower rates than the others. Then, because number one issues didn’t occur that often, they developed ways to create them artificially by revamping characters and starting titles over, creating the mini-series in comics (although that may have been a good thing), and just plain releasing new titles as fast as possible. And of course, grading entered the hobby as in baseball cards. Predictably, collectors left the hobby because they could no longer afford to just read their favorite comics. The bubble burst and comics reached a low point they had not seen since the early 70’s when comics almost died out completely. The comics industry has been recovering and the advent of trade paperback collections have brought the readers back into the hobby.

Finally, let’s look at non-sport cards (also known as bubble gum cards or entertainment cards). Without rookie cards to promote a set, the manufacturers started short-printing certain cards to create rarities that would be sought after. Because this practice was frowned upon by collectors, the manufacturers quickly moved to chase cards to help promote pack and box sales. They quickly developed autograph cards, memorabilia cards, and the like to keep collectors searching and buying. Of course, the dealers were the ones making the money because they could afford to buy cases of product, break down the boxes, sell the chase cards for small fortunes, and dump the base card sets for a few dollars as extra income. And of course, as you would expect, grading is finally entering this hobby as well. By the early 90’s, there were almost 500 companies producing non-sport trading cards. By the end of the 90’s, almost all of those companies were gone, as well as a couple of the major players in the industry. Collectors gave up trying to finish sets and left because the chase cards were so limited, most could not afford to even try. The hobby hasn’t been the same since, and appears to be in its death throes, but will likely rebound as the other hobbies mentioned above have done.

So, let us examine the field of collectible figures and statues. This hobby is still in its infancy compared to most other hobbies, yet the industry players are following the same footsteps each of the aforementioned hobbies have walked. We are beginning to see more and more “exclusive” product which is the equivalent of the rookie card, number one issue, and chase card that helped drive collectors away from other hobbies. Grading is trying to gain market acceptance but is not making as much ground as the previous hobbies. And just as in the other hobbies, the products continue to get more extravagant and expensive. If these trends continue, and history says they will, it is only a matter of time before collectors get disillusioned and abandon this hobby for greener pastures. This is how I see the current state of the industry.

How do you see things? Let’s discuss…

I have to say that I agree with you.

Collectors (most of them) are a fickle bunch. It just takes that one "exclusive" screw-up (remember Playmates 1701 disaster?) on the companies part and the collector base abandons one area of interest for another.

In my opinion you have three major issues working against the hobby at this time. One, too many companies producing 12" figures(saturation of the market). Two, over inflated prices (prices range from $40.00 to $200.00 per figure) Three, exclusives, exclusives, exclusives (you know which companies are guilty of this).

I blathered on about just this problem on my site a few months ago.
 
King Darkness said:
Small minded rats....Nothing makes me more angry than small minded people who cant see past a stereotype....I dont want to offend Josh, being as they are your bridesmaids, but I hate people like that!!! I have taken my share of "40 year old virgin" jokes but it usaully only happens once!! Not much makes me mad, but it only takes one stupid "how old are you" joke to set me off!! Anyway, thats why we have the freaks board, so we can not be rediculed for our love of collecting!!

Thanks guys.... It doesn't happen often, so yeah I can agree with pixletwin... More people have been wowed that behaving badly. I can handle ridicule pretty well, thanks to Bootcamp..:lol But I was just appalled that they handled the figures so roughly, as if they were not worth anything to me... That is what had me mostly miffed. I'm just glad it only happens once in a blue moon, and I always have you guys to remind me that I am not alone... :D
 
lcummins said:
Excellent discussion guys! I think we all seem to agree for once! :monkey5

Yeah, It was little strange to all be on the same page in this one...Great topic lc....
 
King Darkness said:
Yeah, It was little strange to all be on the same page in this one...Great topic lc....

Well, don't get me wrong, I love zombies, Jason, Freddy, Star Wars, LOTR, etc., etc., etc., but we were getting a bit stale with umpteen threads going over the same basic stuff, day after day! I needed a little enlightened reading!!! :rotfl
 
King Darkness said:
Enlightened reading on a message board, thats a little wishful thinking, wouldn't you say:lol

Well, with members from all over the world, I've been enlightened!!! :D
 
Great topic, and I appreciate the truly insightful comments thus far. I would only add that in my eyes the "exclusive" craze is really pushing the retailer/brick and morter store further away. When a said company produces exclusives that are to many "must-haves," the retailer is left with what is essentially everyone's seconds. The retailer is obsolete, and while the company needs not deal in wholesale pricing, it may alienate some from their product.

I think companies ought to be careful of a potential backlash in that regard.
 
LOTRFan said:
Great topic, and I appreciate the truly insightful comments thus far. I would only add that in my eyes the "exclusive" craze is really pushing the retailer/brick and morter store further away. When a said company produces exclusives that are to many "must-haves," the retailer is left with what is essentially everyone's seconds. The retailer is obsolete, and while the company needs not deal in wholesale pricing, it may alienate some from their product.

I think companies ought to be careful of a potential backlash in that regard.

That is a very valid point...and a reason a couple of my local comic shops quite carrying SS products....I have always ordered direct from SS, so I hasn't effected me, but i'am sure there are others out there that it has.
 
LOTRFan said:
Great topic, and I appreciate the truly insightful comments thus far. I would only add that in my eyes the "exclusive" craze is really pushing the retailer/brick and morter store further away. When a said company produces exclusives that are to many "must-haves," the retailer is left with what is essentially everyone's seconds. The retailer is obsolete, and while the company needs not deal in wholesale pricing, it may alienate some from their product.

I think companies ought to be careful of a potential backlash in that regard.

That is an excellent point! I deal with Adam at Dark Shadow for anything that isn't an exclusive, being as I live 10 minutes from him and all, and he is one of the best retailers I have dealt with, and now a good friend as well. I have a split loyalty with the exclusive part going to Sideshow (and thinking about their upcoming Rewards Program) and the rest going to Adam for the great prices and service. If it wasn't for him, my collection wouldn't be half of what it is today! I feel guilty every time Sideshow releases an exclusive, because that means I won't be able to order it from Adam.
 
lcummins said:
That is an excellent point! I deal with Adam at Dark Shadow for anything that isn't an exclusive, being as I live 10 minutes from him and all, and he is one of the best retailers I have dealt with, and now a good friend as well. I have a split loyalty with the exclusive part going to Sideshow (and thinking about their upcoming Rewards Program) and the rest going to Adam for the great prices and service. If it wasn't for him, my collection wouldn't be half of what it is today! I feel guilty every time Sideshow releases an exclusive, because that means I won't be able to order it from Adam.

Funny, because I was just talking with Adam about this myself. Sideshow (or insert company here) is a business, and like any other are in it for the money. Of course they have impeccible customer service, and offers, etc, but ultimately it is to increase sales. There is a very hard line to walk between generating sales for yourself, and not pushing all outside sellers away. Retailers have it hard enough with the advent of eBay and sales threads on message boards. :eek:
 
DarkArtist81 said:
Also, on a sidenote.... Last weekend my Fiance's friends (her future bridesmaids) came by our place to meet me. They saw my stuff as I was working on painting... Instantly the jokes began, mean spirited comments... I know they meant no harm, but it hurt. I could not help but feel like I was 2 feet tall, like what I do was the worst thing any man could ever go about doing. I know I'm not alone in this, I'm sure that some of you have been rediculed for your collection... just thought I would share...

But the mere fact that we continue, even despite the negativity, gives me faith that no matter what happens to this industry, we will still be here to comment on it and get the stuff we want...

Mate - I got the same sort of looks going through Spotlight (a fabric store) last week and buying fabric..... I was the only guy there NOT being dragged around by a spouse.
 
LordAzrael said:
Mate - I got the same sort of looks going through Spotlight (a fabric store) last week and buying fabric..... I was the only guy there NOT being dragged around by a spouse.

:rotfl :rotfl :rotfl :rotfl :rotfl
 
I started collecting comics in the 4th grade, so I've lived through both the comic and baseball card meltdown of the 90's. I see the same thing happening to the industry happening today. One of the ironies of the collectibles industry is that the more businesses that expand, the more saturated the market becomes. The more a business seeks to sell more, the more risks it takes on.

To some extent, I see some manufacturers combating the problem. Bowen, for instance, intends to curb the ES, which should help, and hopefully, they'll follow through.

Sideshow went from ES shown -> ES TBA -> Exclusive ES & Regular ES -> Exclusive ES TBA & Regular ES TBA -> Inclusive ES TBA & Regular ES TBA. Given this progressions, the only line I would permanantly keep in my collection is their Marvel Dios. The rest of their stuff is plagued with high ES's and low quality, imo. Trying to make things "inclusive" is no different to me than bagging comics and saying "Exclusive Collector's edition!" like in the 90's.

With regards to Sideshow Weta stuff, "True Market Value" only exists at a particular moment in time, since prices fluctuate based on hype, season, etc. Sideshow Weta pieces $$$'s are low right now, and for that reason, I'm in hoarding mode. For me, their "True Market Values" won't be realized for another couple of years. ;)
 
If you're using the SS/W line as an example, they went from open editions to announced limited editions, to ES TBA. The flippers did it to themselves by hoping to fund their entire collection with one balrog. Thus we got the 9500 ES's. But why shouldn't a collectibles company make as many as they think they can sell? It sure beats double-dipping like MR does by making essentially the same item but calling it something different like the Elite Editions.
 
Darklord Dave said:
If you're using the SS/W line as an example, they went from open editions to announced limited editions, to ES TBA. The flippers did it to themselves by hoping to fund their entire collection with one balrog. Thus we got the 9500 ES's. But why shouldn't a collectibles company make as many as they think they can sell? It sure beats double-dipping like MR does by making essentially the same item but calling it something different like the Elite Editions.

...and as a collector, I would rather be able to get a piece at retail and not have to pay high prices because it was too limited! I don't want to see huge edition sizes either, but I think there is a happy medium in there that companies can find!
 
Darklord Dave said:
If you're using the SS/W line as an example, they went from open editions to announced limited editions, to ES TBA. The flippers did it to themselves by hoping to fund their entire collection with one balrog. Thus we got the 9500 ES's. But why shouldn't a collectibles company make as many as they think they can sell? It sure beats double-dipping like MR does by making essentially the same item but calling it something different like the Elite Editions.

Certainly there is exists a middle ground here. Yes, collectors drove ES up, but the companies themselves figured they could make more of a profit with the larger sizes. Again, it certainly comes back to the $$$, more of a prospect for the company, because of increased demand. I get tired of hearing that the blame lies with the collectors (not that Dave was implying this), they are not the ones making the product. Equal "blame" (if you want to use that term) lies with both sides. Though I would say that the demand originated with the supplier, that began the ball rolling.
 
Actually I think the company gets caught in the middle of this argument. Sure they are in business to make money, if they don't make as much as they can then they can't continue to bring us product and SS definitely has brought us product with a huge diversity.

Then they have to keep their collectibles popular and one of the ways of doing this is through the ES. If the products are not limited enough the demand can suffer and even disheartened those collectors who want their collections to at the very least hold their original value. However, if the ES is too low then they have to deal with grumbling and bad press because they are not looking out for the true collector.

They don't have a magic button and secret recipe for the perfect ES. Some companies handle it better than others. I'm very satisfied with the way Sideshow handles it for the most part and have adjusted my habits accordingly. Pieces that I think the ES is a little high on I wait and save money down the road picking them up when prices drop. Ones that I think they hit about right or I can't stand the thought of missing, I'll order immediately.

But improvements can always be made and things are going to constantly change. We've just got to hang on for the ride :D
 
Darklord Dave said:
If you're using the SS/W line as an example, they went from open editions to announced limited editions, to ES TBA. The flippers did it to themselves by hoping to fund their entire collection with one balrog. Thus we got the 9500 ES's. But why shouldn't a collectibles company make as many as they think they can sell? It sure beats double-dipping like MR does by making essentially the same item but calling it something different like the Elite Editions.
I was talking about Sideshow's handling of ES in general.

With regards to the high SSW ES, I knew enough to stay a mile away from the ROTK line.

As to why a company shouldn't make as many as they can sell, welp, just look back at the Comic book and baseball card industry in the 90's. As I mentioned above, there's risk of saturating the market, the effects of which may not be immediately discernible but oh so evident when the market drops.

And isn't there a certain parallel with Sideshow making essentially the same thing but calling it something different like "Sideshow Exclusive"? Whenever I see a new item come out, I make it a note by looking at the overall ES = exclusive + regular.
 
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