Neill Blomkamp's ALIEN is official!

[a-dev]

@ the small print. Horner was a definite self-plagiarist. (shame we have to say 'was' ) They all are to some degree but it could be particularly noticeable with him - thankfully I loved his style and the great melodies he came up with for pretty much everything he did - STII:TWOK, Willow, Braveheart, Apollo 13, Titanic and Avatar.

 

[Khev]

Well even John Williams re-used his own music occasionally so it's hard to fault anyone else for doing so. Heck speaking of plagiarizing and "ALIENS" I always thought that the musical bits in ROTS that accompanied Anakin's immediate regret after executing Dooku and then Grievous doing with funky crab walk sprint to his wheelbike were very reminiscent of the music from ALIENS.

 

[abake]

Actually, as I was listening to music Blade posted, it struck me that once it gets going, it sounds a lot like parts of the Matrix score.
Regarding Aliens' score, maybe I was a bit harsh, but there's simply nothing in it that moves me like the scores for Alien and Alien3. I just keep hearing the horns doing doing that sort of fugue...
Of course, it's not a bad score, far from it.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Horner's score for Aliens is so good that part of it was used for the ending of Die Hard.

That is not true. It is just that Horner's scores sound mostly the same.

That tag ending to Die Hard was slapped on last minute because audiences wanted McClane to meet Al Powell....and they got Horner to tag it (for some reason Kamen was unavailable) -- that is why the movie suddenly sounds completely different. I remember seeing it the first time in the theater and going: why the hell is Horner suddenly here. He uses his usual building fanfare that finally crescendos. The Alien bit you guys all love that became THE music cue for most 20th Fox action movie trailers in the 90's. You hear that same bit in Khan, Cocoon, Krull, Willow, ST3, Brainstorm, Commando, on and on.

He's a composer with a very limited range, much like Alan Silvestri, but I like what both of them do.... over and over again.

 

[a-dev]

I wouldn't describe the guy who composed the music for Forrest Gump on the one hand and ****ing Predator on the other as having limited range But I'm no music expert so I may be misinterpreting the term 'range' in this context.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Like most actors, most composers have their limited bag of tricks -- they do what they do well over and over again (generally what they are paid to do), once in a great while they stretch out.

There's the masters, like John Williams and Jerry Goldsmith, that have an incredible range. Are they repetitive, yes, sometimes. But they can go places musically that no one else can. And they generally set the bar for others to follow.

Then there's the 2nd tier -- in other words, if you can't get the above, then you get: Silvestri, Horner, etc

There's a lot of these guys. Very good too, I love Silvestri, but he has a much smaller bag of tricks than say Goldsmith. There's really no comparison if you listen to soundtracks like I have all my life. When I was a kid, I used to be able to guess the composer at the beginning of a movie in the first few notes, I knew their works that well. Silvestri and Horner were easy to pick out immediately.

Predator's one of my favorite scores, but go listen to Ricochet and tell me which is which.

 

[Rotfish]

Vangelis is a personal favorite, but he hasn't done much this century save for Alexander (actually his soundtrack was the best part of that movie).

 

[a-dev]

Like most actors, most composers have their limited bag of tricks -- they do what they do well over and over again (generally what they are paid to do), once in a great while they stretch out.

There's the masters, like John Williams and Jerry Goldsmith, that have an incredible range. Are they repetitive, yes, sometimes. But they can go places musically that no one else can. And they generally set the bar for others to follow.

Then there's the 2nd tier -- in other words, if you can't get the above, then you get: Silvestri, Horner, etc

There's a lot of these guys. Very good too, I love Silvestri, but he has a much smaller bag of tricks than say Goldsmith. There's really no comparison if you listen to soundtracks like I have all my life. When I was a kid, I used to be able to guess the composer at the beginning of a movie in the first few notes, I knew their works that well. Silvestri and Horner were easy to pick out immediately.

Predator's one of my favorite scores, but go listen to Ricochet and tell me which is which.

I probably listen to Horner more than I do Williams. Goldsmith I listen to the least. I think his best most listenable work is for Star Trek movies - what would become the theme for The Next Generation. I think he also did the main title theme for Star Trek Voyager which was the best thing about that show. Then of course there's his Alien score - very atmospheric but you have to be in the particular mood. You don't demo a sound system with it - not that it isn't best served by a good sound system mind you.

Vangelis is a personal favorite, but he hasn't done much this century save for Alexander (actually his soundtrack was the best part of that movie).

Offhand I can't think of anything other than BladeRunner and Alexander from him. And yes his score for the latter is its best feature.

I've watched Alexander 3 or 4 times, each time expecting to find something in it that I must not have appreciated before but I've always been let down. Just a boring film with distracting Irish accents and an unlikable protagonist

 

[Bravomite]

That is not true. It is just that Horner's scores sound mostly the same.

That tag ending to Die Hard was slapped on last minute because audiences wanted McClane to meet Al Powell....and they got Horner to tag it (for some reason Kamen was unavailable) -- that is why the movie suddenly sounds completely different. I remember seeing it the first time in the theater and going: why the hell is Horner suddenly here. He uses his usual building fanfare that finally crescendos. The Alien bit you guys all love that became THE music cue for most 20th Fox action movie trailers in the 90's. You hear that same bit in Khan, Cocoon, Krull, Willow, ST3, Brainstorm, Commando, on and on.

He's a composer with a very limited range, much like Alan Silvestri, but I like what both of them do.... over and over again.

Wor-Gar thanks for your comments. That's very interesting, I had not realised that they tagged that scene in at the last minute of Die Hard but it would make complete sense. The track is definitely from the aliens soundtrack though, it is called 'Resolution and Hyperspace' - I've listened to it sooooo many times (including the percussion only track which really takes a ridiculous level of Aliens fandom to enjoy haha) that I would recognise it anywhere. I was wrong though as the part that was used in Die Hard (the first part of the track) was cut from the theatrical version of Aliens (though still on the soundtrack).

I heard that the track was originally only placed in Die Hard as temporary music to track with the film until Michael Kamen could write his own cue for the scene. However, director McTiernan liked it so much / didn't like Kamen's efforts that the track was retained in the finished film. This was covered on the Netflix show 'Movies we love' when they did the spot light episode on Die Hard. If you've heard differently and they actually did get Horner back into to score it I would be very interested to find out more.

Perhaps one of the reasons the score for Aliens seems so generic to people know is because the track 'Bishop's Countdown' was used so much during the lat 80s and 90s in trailers for other action movies?

I completely agree that you can hear the signatures of most composers in their music. They make certain stylistic choices and will often fall back on similar movements, melodies in many of their scores. John Williams is one of if not the best and you can definitely hear hints or parts of OT Star Wars riffs appearing in some of his other works... impossible to avoid when you have such a large body of work.

Horner is a strange one as his scores almost fall into two camps with all his later stuff sounding quite different (but similar to each other) compared to and distinct from the sound of all of his earlier stuff (which also sounds similar to each other) - I think it might have been when he fell in love with using pipes in his music later during his career (Avatar, Titanic).

I noticed the other day that Michael Giacchino had lifted a whole part out of his Rogue One score and put in into Fallen Kingdom - It's funny how something like that can take you out of a movie (not that Jurassic World Fallen Kingdom is any good to start with!). I do like Giacchino, they put on show for him at the Royal Albert Hall a few years ago for his birthday where he conducted the orchestra through various parts of his movie scores. John Williams was big influence on him and you can hear it, he also said that he loved old Hollywood movies when he grew up and always knew that he wanted to work in movies.

I agree that Vangelis is phenomenal with such a distinct voice to anyone else. I really enjoyed Junkie XL on his score for Fury Road but don't think he has ever captured that magic again (I'd need to double check it but I think the track is 'Brother's in Arms' which is really powerful).

Zimmer is also up there for me with Williams and Goldsmith.

I love Silvestri's soundtrack for Predator. I really enjoyed Infinity War as well but I think he might phone it in a lot nowadays haha.

One of my other personal favourites is Basil Poledouris (Conan, Robocop, Starship Troopers).

I rarely listen to 'pop' music nowadays only musical scores so would be interested in other peoples recommendations.

 

[a-dev]

I was going to edit my last post to bring up Basil Poledouris. The Robocop score has some great stuff. The track Rock Shop contains the most obvious rendition of the Robocop theme although you have to get past a harsh opening bit that you don't want to have the sound high for. The next track 'Home' is also awesome.

Starship Troopers is pretty good too. Always loved this track




Michael Kamen was a great action scorer for Die Hard, Lethal Weapon and License To Kill.

David Arnold made a good successor for the Bond Soundtracks. And he also did 2 other of my favourite scores - Stargate and Independence Day.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Goldsmith I listen to the least.

That is a shame, as he is one of the greats but probably a little old school for many -- especially if you only know him for Star Trek and Alien (not his best work). If you listen to something like Planet of the Apes and then The Great Train Robbery you will see an amazing range -- the two scores couldn't be more different. And then his score for Patton is absolutely amazing and totally different still.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I heard that the track was originally only placed in Die Hard as temporary music to track with the film until Michael Kamen could write his own cue for the scene. However, director McTiernan liked it so much / didn't like Kamen's efforts that the track was retained in the finished film. This was covered on the Netflix show 'Movies we love' when they did the spot light episode on Die Hard.

I did understand they used his music as temp track but then understood that he scored it for that scene -- but honestly, it makes more sense your way -- a temp track they just decided to keep in for the tag scene. I can't see them paying for an orchestra and all for a piece of music they already own that works. Plus, you pointed out the show which I was unaware of.

I any event, that cue of Horner's is like his signature. He uses that same structure for so many tracks and so many movies. Slower, faster, shorter, longer -- but the same build-build-build with horns, then flurry with crescendo. Right on the shot of Al Powell lowering the gun. Its so distinctive... Aliens, Star Trek, Willow, Krull and more all used it. So when I first heard it in 1988 it was unmistakable... even though it said Kamen as the composer. I knew immediately something was fishy. It was a mystery that took a long time to solve because we didn't have the internet or a lot of information about stuff like that back them.

 

[Khev]

Perhaps one of the reasons the score for Aliens seems so generic to people know is because the track 'Bishop's Countdown' was used so much during the lat 80s and 90s in trailers for other action movies?

Which itself was always derivative of the music that accompanied the Rebel ships flying away from the first Death Star right before it exploded.

 

[Rotfish]

I remember hearing a rip-off of that track in the Iron Giant trailer.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Which itself was always derivative of the music that accompanied the Rebel ships flying away from the first Death Star right before it exploded.

I can't believe I never made that connection in all these years.

Never too old to learn something new.

 

[Khev]

I can't believe I never made that connection in all these years.

Never too old to learn something new.

Ha. I didn't notice either until I was watching the laserdisc back in the 90's with a buddy who much preferred the original ALIEN and after Ripley and Bishop escaped the explosion he said "that's totally just Star Wars." The very end of the "countdown" matches almost note for note (exact same context even, lol). Once he made me aware that's all I hear when watching that scene now.

I can almost picture Cameron telling Horner "okay as they're flying away from the explosion can you make it all tense and exciting like the end of Star Wars?"

Horner: "Uh...sure, heh heh."