MoS and BvS as commentary on the paradigm shift that “we are not alone”

[Alatar]

The video isn’t contending that the sole purpose of the films is to showcase how the human psyche will react to certain disclosure that extraterrestrial civilizations capable of interstellar travel definitely exist. It’s just noting that that lens is prominently applied by Snyder and invites reflection on it. Within the deconstruction project of placing superhero mythology in our real world (versus superheroes existing in the fictional headspace where they can exist as classical idealizations) there are many things that would be different than the comics and other idealized depictions. But the fact that we are not alone in the universe might very well have the deepest impact of all on us psychologically.

Superman kicks off the superhero genre with a story of an ET visitation. Superman is himself a metaphor for what confirmation of the existence of ET means for us. ET has the potential to be good or bad, or a mix of the two. And we all tend to project our hopes and fears onto that, whether we do it consciously or not.

And by the way, it was a merry Christmas indeed for ufology this year, with this bill passing in the quiet of the night:

https://thedebrief.org/858-billion-...islation-on-unidentified-anomalous-phenomena/
which means military and aerospace folks with knowledge of UFOs are no longer bound by their NDAs. Let the disclosure begin to ring in 2023!

 

[Ombudsman]

Merry Christmas, to you all. Interesting post. I really feel most would not freak if the truth was admitted as I think a lot of folks already suspect. But if we’re waiting on a government to confirm it for us directly; it’s going to be a long wait. No matter what they promise. For me, I don’t need someone in a government to tell me they exist. I’ve been alive long enough to know myself.

 

[Alatar]

Merry Christmas, to you all. Interesting post. I really feel most would not freak if the truth was admitted as I think a lot of folks already suspect. But if we’re waiting on a government to confirm it for us directly; it’s going to be a long wait. No matter what they promise. For me, I don’t need someone in a government to tell me they exist. I’ve been alive long enough to know myself.

What’s new to the situation now: This new whistleblower law allows folks in the know to start sharing the knowledge they have without fear of going to jail for violating NDAs. That is a gigantic step forward. Whistleblower laws are often weak in practice, but I think in this case the whole intent of the law is to open the floodgates and just let the chips fall where they may. I need to examine the new law but if it includes immunity for those who have broken the law by keeping things secret that also sets the conditions for full disclosure.

I totally agree with most of this though, and I think by now polls even show that most people believe in aliens/UFOs are more likely real than not, etc. But we can also examine it as the fear that the military/government/industrial complex who have been keeping the secret for so long have projected onto society as whole. Anyway, there probably was a time when it would have freaked people out. But after 20 years of Ancient Aliens gradually softening people up to the idea in the pop culture, it doesn’t seem so scary by now. Not to mention superhero mythology which is basically a form of sci-fi now, normalizing the existence of ETs.

It’s interesting to listen to Richard Dolan‘s take on why ET chooses to be secretive though. He finds it disquieting, and frankly he’s not wrong about the reasons for that concern.

It would seem that ET has probably been here for a very long time. I remain hopeful that since ET hasn’t already simply taken over our planet that ET’s intentions are fundamentally peaceful. And hopefully prosocial.

 

[Alatar]

Related to this topic:

After the UAP whistleblower act was signed into law, last night Chris Mellon tested the waters by confirming that Eric Davis did in fact author the Wilson Memo.



Shout out to MOS and BVS spotlighting back-engineering of UFOs and the role of the military industrial complex in so doing. BvS’s Luthor through this lens is more interesting to contemplate with his psychiatric decompensation and all the other things about him that deviate from classical comic book Lex, especially the suave BTAS version.

 

[generalszabo]

Not to turn this into a 'do they exist?' debate (I still think there's no evidence that they do, in the sense that most people mean, but am prepared to eat my hat if I'm proved wrong), I think the reaction to actual proof would be met in a wide variety of ways, much like xenophobia and racism that has existed since the start of mankind. Some would embrace them, most would hate and fear. I don't think we're ready for that info, if it were actually reality.

Any aliens with the technology to visit us would be so advanced that it is in their best interest, or ours, that they don't make themselves known to us. We simply are not on their level in any way. Stephen hawking warned us of the dangers of announcing our existence to the galaxy, but that doesn't stop us from doing so

Liu cixin's books the three body problem, the dark forest etc bring this concept to life in a massive way. To think other life would be benevolent is an insane concept to me and a lot of others

I do think there's life out there, it's just far beyond our comprehension, and thankfully too far away for us to have to worry about

 

[Alatar]

Not to turn this into a 'do they exist?' debate (I still think there's no evidence that they do, in the sense that most people mean, but am prepared to eat my hat if I'm proved wrong), I think the reaction to actual proof would be met in a wide variety of ways, much like xenophobia and racism that has existed since the start of mankind. Some would embrace them, most would hate and fear. I don't think we're ready for that info, if it were actually reality.

Any aliens with the technology to visit us would be so advanced that it is in their best interest, or ours, that they don't make themselves known to us. We simply are not on their level in any way. Stephen hawking warned us of the dangers of announcing our existence to the galaxy, but that doesn't stop us from doing so

Liu cixin's books the three body problem, the dark forest etc bring this concept to life in a massive way. To think other life would be benevolent is an insane concept to me and a lot of others

I do think there's life out there, it's just far beyond our comprehension, and thankfully too far away for us to have to worry about

That’s the beauty part about this new UAP whistleblower law. Those that have actually done work on back engineering UFO crash retrievals can actually confirm it now without fear of going to jail.

 

[Alatar]

I wonder if the new law includes immunity for politicians who colluded with keeping this information secret… such that up to a known $21 trillion (actual spending is probably much, much more) in black budget money awarded mostly to the private aerospace industry (in order to avoid FOIA requests) with zero congressional oversight for the people’s money are also protected from going to jail for such offenses. I’ll eventually read the whole thing but it released on Christmas Eve, lol.

 

[Alatar]

Just a bit of clarification as I learn more about the new law. There’s a new office for the Department of Defense titled “All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office” (AARO). All disclosures have to be made to that office. Folks that know things cannot go directly to the press or to Congress. I would imagine that this is in order to protect sensitive information that in some cases is legitimately related to national defense and intelligence, etc.

 

[Otomofan]

I've been fascinated by UFOs and the unexplained since I was a really little kid. I'd check out books on Project Blue Book from my school library and then spend the weekend in sleepless terror. It scared the hell out of me, but I just couldn't get enough.

I also think the internet is the greatest invention in history, but it's also torn society apart in ways we couldn't imagine before. We are so divided as a people that even if a 100% real alien life form were to land on the White House lawn in real time in high def, maybe only 15% of the population would actually believe it was real. A massive percentage would simply reject it on religious grounds, and another massive percentage would reject it thinking that it's all a fake psy-op by the government or "the elites" in order to move us on to the next phase of the new world order.

Plenty of people believe that already. "Project Blue Beam." They're already dismissing any and all reports of UAPs as "controlled opposition." These are the people that believe the ISS is "fake" and "done with CGI." Anyone that believes that is pretty far gone.

I've wanted disclosure my whole life, but it terrifies me at the same time, on a primal level. Everything we've ever know or believed, shattered in an instant?? That's horrifying. And what if these things are malevolent? What if our biggest cities just look like ant hills to them? Some people stomp on ant hills just for the hell of it. Let's hope these entities aren't wired the same way.

 

[ZE_501]

Given the scale and age of the universe, it wouldn't surprise me that there is sentient life out there in space-time.

I have no concrete opinion on whether or not we've been visited by an advanced intelligence (either in person or via observation tools) but taking a step back and looking at our species ... violent, perplexing, irrational, splitting atoms while killing each other over intangible deities and limited resources ... it wouldn't surprise me if said intelligence didn't want to hang out. Imagine a truly alien intelligence trying to work out what we even are. Our entertainment alone make no sense out of context. Do they even *have* entertainment as we know it?

As for whether or not they would be hostile ... I've pondered that recently in terms of evolutionary biology.

Our violence towards each other and non-human animals stems from our being territorial apes with a taste for flesh.

Is it possible an organism with a different evolutionary blueprint could achieve advanced sentience and would said blueprint render them better ... or worse?

Is it possible that solving or avoiding sociopolitical problems within an advanced species to ensure sufficient cooperation for extreme technological advancement requires either a pacifist mindset or on a more unsettling note ... at least a hive-mind level of cooperation?

 

[JacktheRipper]

 

[ajp4mgs]

Damn fine way to break up the monotony. Kudos to the op for this thread and the discussion it has inspired.

I can't help but laugh when people say that there's no evidence of extraterrestrial life. *We* are the evidence. It's one thing to believe that interstellar travel doesn't exist anywhere out there, but the view that a universe expansive enough to include the equivalent of mirror galaxies doesn't have sentient and intelligent life elsewhere just absolutely boggles my mind.

I don't know if that point of view has its genesis in fear of the philosophical/theological consequences, or in simple myopic vanity, or in some other factor... but to have even a remedial understanding of the unfathomable size of the universe and its complexity and still believe that Earth houses the only intelligent life is such an odds-defying POV that I can't even wrap my head around it.

As for the human reaction if extraterrestrials were to ever make themselves known, that's one of the reasons I appreciated Snyder's take on Superman in his 3 films using the character. No matter how much Snyder's approach lacked nuance, the theme employed could just as easily be applied to the idea of God among us as it could to "alien" among us. Distrust, fear, worship, pleading, hate, reverence... a fairly full spectrum of emotional response would be part of the reaction equation.

I don't think anything scares human beings more than powerlessness. Be it a superior alien race, or God, the majority reaction would be based in fear, IMO. The fear would either lead to efforts to take down the "threat" or to submitting to the higher power in reverence and hope for wisdom imparted to extend/improve our lives.

The "aliens" exist out there. But any species capable of developing the technology necessary to traverse the distance necessary to reach Earth would look upon our planet as we look upon a zoo. Primitive beings "cute" enough to appreciate and take pictures of. Perhaps prospective pets. But I doubt we'd be of interest as a resource or anything else. And if they have the technology to exceed the speed of light, or to bend spacetime at will, they should be more than capable of remaining undetected if they so choose. A 'crash" would likely be more of an intentional prank. Like throwing a Rubik's Cube into an ape cage and watching what they do with it.

Merry Christmas, everyone!

 

[generalszabo]

I can't help but laugh when people say that there's no evidence of extraterrestrial life. *We* are the evidence.

I'm still waiting for actual evidence, not just a theory

 

[ajp4mgs]

I'm still waiting for actual evidence, not just a theory

I get that. Obviously, it'd be great to get verifiable proof. But I don't think human lifespans afford us the luxury of waiting for the technological leaps necessary to get concrete evidence to prove what can be assumed by way of solid logic.

Plenty of aspects about our greater reality might never be proven through direct observation, yet we don't stop presuming we "know" something if all signs are pointing to it. Humans have never technically "seen" an atom, for example, but several centuries of advancements in understanding were made by recognizing the logical likelihood and working from there. Until, of course, the development of the electron microscope could "confirm" what was already assumed.

We will always be victims to the limits of our field of vision. And in many ways, we continue to epitomize Plato's Cave. I get that "seeing is believing" is firm footing to stand on, but if we predicate our worldviews entirely on only what is directly observable at the time and place we occupy, then logistic limitations will potentially impede a fuller and richer understanding of the bigger picture while we're here. Some things only get officially proven after we're dead and gone; always been that way.

Logical extrapolation is sometimes the best "evidence" you'll ever be able to have. Call it "circumstantial" if you want, but life sentences to prison get ordered on that notion. I know that "probable" doesn't always equate to "actual," but I don't need to witness a crime in order to extrapolate a truth about it from obvious clues.

Making certain assumptions about alien life existing would, at the very least, better prepare society in the event that proof comes knocking.

 

[JacktheRipper]

I think most logical people come to the conclusion that there has to be other forms of life out there; intelligent or otherwise. The evidence we are seeking is whether they are here or have ever been here. I think there is a high likelihood of Bigfoot, but nothing I've seen, heard, or read proves they exist.

 

[Prime Clone]

When the aliens turn out looking like humans, it's a lot less unsettling!

 

[generalszabo]

People would lose their minds if we really established contact with aliens, they wouldn't know how to cope. I have little faith in the human race lol

 

[Alatar]

Damn fine way to break up the monotony. Kudos to the op for this thread and the discussion it has inspired.

I can't help but laugh when people say that there's no evidence of extraterrestrial life. *We* are the evidence. It's one thing to believe that interstellar travel doesn't exist anywhere out there, but the view that a universe expansive enough to include the equivalent of mirror galaxies doesn't have sentient and intelligent life elsewhere just absolutely boggles my mind.

I don't know if that point of view has its genesis in fear of the philosophical/theological consequences, or in simple myopic vanity, or in some other factor... but to have even a remedial understanding of the unfathomable size of the universe and its complexity and still believe that Earth houses the only intelligent life is such an odds-defying POV that I can't even wrap my head around it.

As for the human reaction if extraterrestrials were to ever make themselves known, that's one of the reasons I appreciated Snyder's take on Superman in his 3 films using the character. No matter how much Snyder's approach lacked nuance, the theme employed could just as easily be applied to the idea of God among us as it could to "alien" among us. Distrust, fear, worship, pleading, hate, reverence... a fairly full spectrum of emotional response would be part of the reaction equation.

I don't think anything scares human beings more than powerlessness. Be it a superior alien race, or God, the majority reaction would be based in fear, IMO. The fear would either lead to efforts to take down the "threat" or to submitting to the higher power in reverence and hope for wisdom imparted to extend/improve our lives.

The "aliens" exist out there. But any species capable of developing the technology necessary to traverse the distance necessary to reach Earth would look upon our planet as we look upon a zoo. Primitive beings "cute" enough to appreciate and take pictures of. Perhaps prospective pets. But I doubt we'd be of interest as a resource or anything else. And if they have the technology to exceed the speed of light, or to bend spacetime at will, they should be more than capable of remaining undetected if they so choose. A 'crash" would likely be more of an intentional prank. Like throwing a Rubik's Cube into an ape cage and watching what they do with it.

Merry Christmas, everyone!

Yes! “Alien“ means “different—not us.” Dictionary says “unfamiliar, disturbing, distasteful.”

I love when the first teaser for BvS came out it signaled the deconstruction and included an ordinary member of the public whispering “alien!”



This is seriously one of the best trailers I have ever seen. Still gives me goosebumps. It signals the deconstruction beautifully, but for a lot of folks including me it sailed over our heads at the time.

So the instinctual human fear of what is “alien” runs like a bright red thread throughout the film. It shows up in many forms. Wayne Enterprises employee Wallace Keefe vandalizes the statue of Superman by spraypainting “false god” onto it, and we see the “alien go home” protesters, etc.

“Alien” as a psychological concept is also a major theme for Bruce as well in relation to Superman, and as he descends in his “fall” it’s a key manifestation of his own Jungian shadow kicking his ass. He can’t handle the fact that the line between vigilante and criminals has blurred, and he’s made all criminals the “bad other,” the “not-me.” Superman is literally an alien. He projects all his unresolved **** onto him like Ahab going after the great white whale.

 

[Alatar]

I think most logical people come to the conclusion that there has to be other forms of life out there; intelligent or otherwise. The evidence we are seeking is whether they are here or have ever been here. I think there is a high likelihood of Bigfoot, but nothing I've seen, heard, or read proves they exist.

There’s the Drake Equation and Fermi Paradox as well, which is that statistically there should be a substantial amount of life out there among the stars, and yet thus far we’re not detecting bio-signatures of life yet when we look out through our telescopes. Instead it seems to be the ‘great silence’ as it is sometimes called. It’s certainly possible that we just aren’t looking for the right signatures. Also JWST is soon going to start giving us detailed profiles of exo-planet atmospheres, etc. So we might crack the code very soon here.

But the military, especially the Navy and Air Force pilots, have for many decades been regularly and frequently encountering craft that move with flight capabilities that vastly exceed any technology humans have developed. This is what we have learned in recent years through programs like AATIP. And no, it’s not human. The consensus is that China or Russia has not leapfrogged the US, and it’s also not black budget US projects. These things don’t even behave according to the laws of physics as we understand them. Not to mention that to even get to our planet from other solar systems they’d almost have to be creating wormholes in spacetime. It’s unlikely that UFOs are traveling around the universe under the threshold of the speed of light as “spam in a can” as the our own Mercury astronauts coined it back in the 1960s (they meant it in a different context, but it applies beautifully.)

Former DOD folks like Lue Elizondo and Chris Mellon have said that there is a treasure trove of high def video footage of such encounters that would blow our minds. And that it will all be released eventually, they have promised. This law that was just signed took a key step toward that finally happening.

 

[JacktheRipper]

It will be interesting how all this information will be received once it starts to get released. It's exciting, but at the same time a bit unsettling.
It's one thing to speculate and wonder, but to actually know something as fact. Peoples' reactions scare me more than aliens. Our response to Covid. The way we treated each other. How we fought for toilet paper. Well, we will all have to hold on for the ride.