McCain Shocker!

[Vader AL]

this country has never seen such a mess... magna carta is gone.. due process is gone... this is no longer the country the founding fathers worked for... 8 years of degeneration with a glimmer of hope in november... how can anyone not feel the need to get off this dim path?

carry on... lets discuss further with more emoticons!

and step towards what, socialism?

 

[barbelith]

and step towards what, socialism?

That's one of the key words that always shows someone needs to cut back on the Kool Aid. None of the Democrats want to impose socialism.

 

[Vader AL]

That's one of the key words that always shows someone needs to cut back on the Kool Aid. None of the Democrats want to impose socialism.

their health care plan is a socialistic healthcare, whatever they want to call it that's what it boils down to.

 

[barbelith]

their health care plan is a socialistic healthcare, whatever they want to call it that's what it boils down to.

So is the fire department and the roads they ride on.

The proposed system does not replace the private system we have now. If you want to continue with private insurance and hope your HMO approves your tests and procedures, you are free to do so. But there are more than 45 million Americans without any sort of health coverage whatsoever beyond emergency room care. That's an abomination and needs to be addressed.

 

[Vader AL]

So is the fire department and the roads they ride on.

The proposed system does not replace the private system we have now. If you want to continue with private insurance and hope your HMO approves your tests and procedures, you are free to do so. But there are more than 45 million Americans without any sort of health coverage whatsoever beyond emergency room care. That's an abomination and needs to be addressed.

actually most fire departments are state/locally ran and the roads are run by the state too, they get federal money to pay for most of it though. i don't mind paying for those because I use them...i don't want to pay for someone else's healthcare.

the 45 million without healthcare don't want it or they'd sign up for it or get a job that offers it. healthcare isn't a right...my parents didn't have it growing up.

 

[Nuka Cola Kidd]

actually most fire departments are state/locally ran and the roads are run by the state too, they get federal money to pay for most of it though. i don't mind paying for those because I use them...i don't want to pay for someone else's healthcare.

the 45 million without healthcare don't want it or they'd sign up for it or get a job that offers it. healthcare isn't a right...my parents didn't have it growing up.

Exactly why is it my fault that these 45 million people dont have health care...i shouldn't have to pay for their mistakes. If they want it then they should go get it. Whats stopping them? Im not rich by all means so should i go up to a millionaire just because they have money and demand that they give me some? Might be a stupid example but it makes the point

 

[barbelith]

actually most fire departments are state/locally ran

I will say this as politely as I can: you need to research what the word "socialism" means. The level of government administering these programs is irrelevant.

i don't want to pay for someone else's healthcare

First of all, that's how private insurance works. You are literally paying for other people's health care. Secondly, you wind up paying for public care anyway, because federal law prohibits hospitals from refusing admittance to the ER. Emergency care is always more expensive than preventative care. Non-paying ER visits come out of your pocket in the form of higher service costs for those who do pay. If your interest is in reducing the amount you pay, a nationalized system is the best solution short of denying emergency care altogether.

To say nothing of the moral issue.

the 45 million without healthcare don't want it or they'd sign up for it or get a job that offers it

Not every job offers health care and private insurance is too expensive for many people. Nobody wants to be without coverage.

 

[Vader AL]

I will say this as politely as I can: you need to research what the word "socialism" means. The level of government administering these programs is irrelevant.



First of all, that's how private insurance works. You are literally paying for other people's health care. Secondly, you wind up paying for public care anyway, because federal law prohibits hospitals from refusing admittance to the ER. Emergency care is always more expensive than preventative care. Non-paying ER visits come out of your pocket in the form of higher service costs for those who do pay. If your interest is in reducing the amount you pay, a nationalized system is the best solution short of denying emergency care altogether.

To say nothing of the moral issue.



Not every job offers health care and private insurance is too expensive for many people. Nobody wants to be without coverage.

Main Entry: so·cial·ism
Pronunciation: \ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm\
Function: noun
Date: 1837
1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a: a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state 3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

This plan would crack the door open for the gov't to completely socialize medicine.

 

[barbelith]

Main Entry: so·cial·ism

So you can see that the local administration of fire departments is a socialist enterprise. In fact much of the American way of life you take for granted are socialist enterprises. The military is the biggest and most obvious example! And of course the very notion of public school. Municipal utilities. Roads. Police. Fire departments. Indeed if we remove every remnant of socialism from the United States it would be unrecognizable!

Socialism exists quite happily hand in hand with capitalism. Every single Western capitalist nation leverages socialist enterprises, and for good reason. All of these "isms" are tools. Republicans have their own socialist prizes too - they wouldn't dare shut down the military or the intelligence community, for example. So usually when Westerners start being frightened of "socialism" they're really just demonstrating they don't know what they're talking about.

This plan would crack the door open for the gov't to completely socialize medicine.

The government has no reason to shut down the private health care sector. These conspiracy theories make no sense. The sky is not falling. This is about making sure every American has health care. If "socialized medicine" is good enough for our leaders, our veterans and our elderly then it should be good enough for those unfortunate enough not to be able to afford private care.

 

[The Josh]

actually most fire departments are state/locally ran and the roads are run by the state too, they get federal money to pay for most of it though. i don't mind paying for those because I use them...i don't want to pay for someone else's healthcare.

the 45 million without healthcare don't want it or they'd sign up for it or get a job that offers it. healthcare isn't a right...my parents didn't have it growing up.

Well the fire department here is run by a board. Its not run by the state or the city. Actually, as far as I know most aren't but some are.

Healthcare is a right. Thats beyond stupid to not think people don't have the right to health care. If people could look past themselves for a few mins we might be better off. Its easier to think about #1 than try to help people.

 

[barbelith]

Healthcare is a right. Thats beyond stupid to not think people don't have the right to health care.

I find it hilarious that the people most in favor of guns and bombs usually seem to be the same people most against healing.

 

[Vader AL]

:emperor

 

[Darklord Dave]

Wait - we're talking about healthcare in the Palin thread and Palin in the Obama thread! This is not right!

I had no health coverage and broke my finger - emergency care and follow up cost $6,000. I now have all my health insurance through a PPO at work, but this is my first time in being in the workforce for 20 years that I've had that opportunity.

To just tell people that don't have healthcare to go out and find a job that supplies it doesn't really track for me.

 

[automaton]

imagine all of those young families that don't have healthcare... the parents may have menial jobs that provide it, but they are unable to further themselves in fear of not being covered...

 

[DarthNeil]

Wait - we're talking about healthcare in the Palin thread and Palin in the Obama thread! This is not right!

I had no health coverage and broke my finger - emergency care and follow up cost $6,000. I now have all my health insurance through a PPO at work, but this is my first time in being in the workforce for 20 years that I've had that opportunity.

To just tell people that don't have healthcare to go out and find a job that supplies it doesn't really track for me.

Michael Moore's documentary SICKO sums up the US "health plan" to a T.
Glad I live in a country where there's universal--granted we have hiccups as well, but I never have to worry about $$ when I have to go to the emergency room--- having said that my insurance through work would cover it if this was the US... But the right of all citizens to proper medical aid should be at the top of the list for every true free society. I hope that the US will move towards something similar.

 

[sirrobert]

I find it hilarious that the people most in favor of guns and bombs usually seem to be the same people most against healing.

I own a gun and stand by the second ammendment but would vote for universal health care. A little socialism aint gonna hurt anybody except the greedy.

 

[DarkArtist81]

I LOVE the thought of universal health care. It's sad that in this country if you hurt yourself and aren't lucky enough to have insurance... you are S.O.L.

A year ago my Wife stepped in a pothole and nearly broke her ankle, she sat crying in my lap for an hour because she was afraid... She didn't know what to do, we didn't have insurance and surely didn't have enough money to take the hit ourselves. I desperately wanted to help her, but had to deal with the fact that I couldn't. Thankfully, it was nothing... but for a while there.. It was really scary.

 

[barbelith]

I own a gun and stand by the second ammendment but would vote for universal health care. A little socialism aint gonna hurt anybody except the greedy.

The greedy are paying more without it, which is the really funny part.

And you're a good example of why I said "usually." I too support the second amendment and endorse the right of citizens to own pistols and hunting rifles (assault weapons no).

 

[hoodonit00]

The greedy are paying more without it, which is the really funny part.

And you're a good example of why I said "usually." I too support the second amendment and endorse the right of citizens to own pistols and hunting rifles (assault weapons no).

Why not assault STYLE weapons?

 

[Darth Caedus]

Funny, she's only been in office since late 2006, but she's still done more than hillary and obama combined