Indiana Jones & The Kingdom of The Crystal Skull Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

[RevRanger]

If you read the new making of the indy films book, it says --

George and Steven both say the idea is that these ALIENS CREATED THE HUMAN RACE.

Well, YOU CAN'T DO THAT when you already had Indy 1 and 3 prove that the stories of God and Christ are true.

Also, it says Steven and Harrison BEGGED to make another Indy for 15 years. George always said "Not unless it has ALIENS and UFOS!" and that's why Steven and Harrison wouldn't do it. They thought that idea stunk. They finally caved and Lucas got his sheety movie.

 

[The Mike]

Wow.....this thread has gone into interesting places. How can one put complete faith in deities and accept that on pure blind faith with no emperial truths or proof that they exist whether you are a poly or monotheist and not allow themselves that out there somewhere may be life like ours or even more advanced in existence? This aspect of humanity's self centered and self indulgent nature always made me laugh that we as a society can be so arrogrant and so conceited to believe that we are the only intelligent life out there always made me scratch my head.

Let's put it this way....the odds that aliens exist that are in the exactly same technological boat as we are is the rarest form of all so in reality either they are behind us technologically and so of course we can hear or meet them because they haven't reached that status and we in fact are the aliens of lore to them or they have surpassed us and may in fact have no desire to deal with beings who are primitive in their minds or in actuality have realized that as humanity is continuing that we as a people much further to go to accept each other let alone a whole other Alien race....

Rant aside, interesting to see that the spoiler thread isn't contained anymore and that one little plotline from it is causing so much hulabaloo.

Oh, and they were setting up Shia to take over the reigns, everyone knew it going in and knows it now so him grabbing a fedora? Only natural.

 

[RevRanger]

The book ALSO says the other stuff George INSISTED be in the movie for no other reason than he thought it was cool. #1 being Indy surviving a nuclear bomb in a fridge!

 

[MaulFan]

Well, I'm with Lucas, Spielberg, et al. in that it doesn't feel out of place in an INDY movie set in 1957.

Same here... as I have said before.. it fits the period to me. Doesn't feel out of place at all.

I'm almost glad my nonexistent film career never happened... obviously I am waaaaay off base in my tastes.

I think the challenge is, with the Skull myth, tying it to Indy really requires you to understand the time period to feel like it fit, as my not knowing the time period and feeling it didn't fit demonstrates. However, the religious power and relevance of the situations in the first 3 films somewhat transcends time periods and just feel like situations an adventurer would get into, even one in the 90's traveling through desserts and such.

 

[pjam]

Uh, hello... Area 51 actually exists you know.

By the way, I am the only one here who remembers that the first draft of the script (by Jeff Boam) was called "Indiana Jones And The Saucermen From Mars"?

Jeff Boam didn't write the first draft of Indy4.

It was Jeb Stuart. (Diehard, The Fugitive, etc).

I thought you were an expert.

It was called "Saucermen From Mars" though so you get props for that. At least I think it was.

 

[TheObsoleteMan]

I don't know, I guess I'm just not one of those guys that dissects cg effects in movies. I grew up with stop-motion animation and clunky composited model effects. If dodgy cg pops up in a movie, unless it's really really bad, my imagination can usually do the extra work of making me buy into it. It'd be great if the effects in every movie were flawless, but they're not. What can ya do?

 

[Agent0028]

I think people dislike the CGI because it isn't at all real where models and such are tangible and you can tell they are real.

 

[DarkArtist81]

I think the challenge is, with the Skull myth, tying it to Indy really requires you to understand the time period to feel like it fit, as my not knowing the time period and feeling it didn't fit demonstrates. However, the religious power and relevance of the situations in the first 3 films somewhat transcends time periods and just feel like situations an adventurer would get into, even one in the 90's traveling through desserts and such.

True. I think that is the hardest sell. Many people don't know a thing about the Crystal Skull legends, and most people who didn't grow up in the 50's don't have a true understanding of the period. Whereas the religious mythology is very pertinent to our time... at least the last few hundred years.

 

[TheObsoleteMan]

I think people dislike the CGI because it isn't at all real where models and such are tangible and you can tell they are real.

I can understand that, but that's just not how movies are made anymore.

 

[DarkArtist81]

I don't know, I guess I'm just not one of those guys that dissects cg effects in movies. I grew up with stop-motion animation and clunky composited model effects. If dodgy cg pops up in a movie, unless it's really really bad, my imagination can usually do the extra work of making me buy into it. It'd be great if the effects in every movie were flawless, but they're not. What can ya do?

Same here. I have a love for old school techniques but still love some CG. It doesn't bother me. I am very imaginative already and I just connect the dots in my mind without overanalyzing it or really even noticing. Unless it's Godzilla bad... or Scooby Doo bad.

 

[adambadadam]

Thanks a lot guys... I will not be seeing this film. I loved the Indy Franchise but from what you guys are saying, the heavy use of CGI and ridiculous and implausible action(Mutt w/monkeys, crazy waterfall stunt, Dopey Gofers) I will not be seeing this monstrosity in any theater, or, in the future on DVD from the discount bin at Jacks 99 cent store.

It sounds like this should never have been made. I have heard the same things from co-workers who saw the film today and I trust their and your opinions.

Time for Lucas to turn over the reigns of his franchises over to more capable hands.

Remember... "Howard the Duck"

But you would spend your time posting your about a movie other people told you not to watch?????

 

[jedibear]

Wow...
I wish i could say I was surprised at the abundance of bad feedback this movie is getting in here, but I'm not. Sad, but not surprised. This is the place where Sideshow' latest releases are ripped apart for every detail so why should a movie be any different?

I guess I'm in the extreme minority here for my enthusiasm for this movie...I loved it.

Like the ones before it were created in the '30s serial style, this one "updated" to an over-the-top '50's pulp vibe that once you got into the spirit of it, it was quite fun. From the Atomic Bomb/Red Scare backdrop to the whole cheesy "Chariots of the Gods" sci-fi ending, "Crystal Skull" whips through it's paces by not taking itself too seriously, yet it still manages to ground the viewer by having it's focus right where it should be...on Indiana Jones.

Where there over-the-top moments that go just a little too far? You bet...
Having Mutt pull a "Tarzan" after a wacky chase that was more reminiscent of that improbable mine car chase in "Temple of Doom" than the more visceral jeep/truck chase from "Raiders" comes to mind...as well as Indy's flying Refrigerator escape or the "Three Falls" tumble...a little overdone, but not unlike some of what has come before.

There were little touches along the way that really stood out for me...the striking image of Indy on the ridge watching the atomic mushroom cloud...being back in that warehouse again for a great set piece to start the film...the look of sadness and regret and self-realization that crosses Indy's face as he sits at his desk after being excused from the college...the use of a light bar across Spalko's eyes during close-ups (very '50s)...the luminous Marion's first appearance alongside Indy...that classic hubcap saucer that made me smile and think "Klaatu! Nitko! Barada!" as it rose into the chaotic sky...and so many more.

I got a kick out of the obvious winks at the audience like the ark peeking out from a shattered crate...Indy "having a bad feeling about this"...to the slightly more subtle ones like the "Outsiders" Soc/Greaser brawl in the American Graffiti cafe, the "Young Indy" reference to his Poncho Villa adventure...but the one main thing that kept me truly glued to the screen was....Indiana Jones himself.

Ford just seemed so engaged with the part again...his enthusiasm and performance were just terrific. Still the man's man with a hint of vulnerability like the best leading men have been, one of the keys to this performance's success was the chemistry with Mutt...it just plays well. Instead of being a cliche' (like being annoyed with a kid), Ford plays it almost genial and pleasant and it grounds the both of them in the midst of the outrageous chases and intense spots they find themselves in over the course of the story. It's a great choice on Ford's part.

Shia proves his mettle here as well, managing to offer some sensitivity amidst the "bad boy" bluster...he was especially effective in showing his care and concern for Ox and his mother...well done.

Where there missteps here? Sure...everyone will have their own wince-inducing moments (many have already been documented in a lot of the posts here)...the only one that keeps bugging me are the dumb little CGI prairie dogs...ack! More than the Tarzan sequence or anything in the kitchen-sink finale, those guys took me out of the movie...but they're over quick.

I'm always going to be glad that Spielberg, Lucas and Ford made one more trip with that whip-cracking hero...it's a fun film that I'll be sure and catch a few more times on the big screen this summer...

Okay...roast away folks...

 

[Agent0028]

Scooby dooby doo. I shoulda never went in to this thread. I'll never get to bed now.

 

[adambadadam]

I don't know, I guess I'm just not one of those guys that dissects cg effects in movies. I grew up with stop-motion animation and clunky composited model effects. If dodgy cg pops up in a movie, unless it's really really bad, my imagination can usually do the extra work of making me buy into it. It'd be great if the effects in every movie were flawless, but they're not. What can ya do?

The praire dogs made me laugh. They served thier purpose for me.

 

[IrishJedi]

Jeff Boam didn't write the first draft of Indy4.

It was Jeb Stuart. (Diehard, The Fugitive, etc).

I thought you were an expert.

It was called "Saucermen From Mars" though so you get props for that. At least I think it was.

You are correct. I got my draft writers mixed up. But it was indeed called Saucermen From Mars.

 

[MaulFan]

True. I think that is the hardest sell. Many people don't know a thing about the Crystal Skull legends, and most people who didn't grow up in the 50's don't have a true understanding of the period. Whereas the religious mythology is very pertinent to our time... at least the last few hundred years.

Another intersting thing too, with the Ark and the Grail, maybe not so much the stones in TOD, there was a sense that for the longest time, man had been seeking those things, but the city and skulls in KOTCS didn't seem that way, it seemed like a few looked but most considered it like a fairy tale, even Indy himself sorta fluffed it off like a legend, where things like the Ark made him light up and smile at the idea of having a chance to find it.

 

[die]

I think that CG effects have their place in film, but to me it seems like Lucas in general relies too heavily on it. How about going back to the Classic Trilogy and adding in brand new flashy CG scenes that do nothing to make the movie better just because you can? (which also was a nice way to take Han's balls away from him by having him not fire first, but instead do a glitchy wall-hack manuever to avoid being blasted first or get photoshop edited up and over a videogame animation of Jabba)

 

[DarkArtist81]

Great review Jedibear... and it really mirrors my own feelings on the movie. Everything you said, I totally agree with.

And, as you said, I am not at all surprised that here at the Freaks board... it is ripped apart just like everything else that gets drug in here.

 

[pjam]

You are correct. I got my draft writers mixed up. But it was indeed called Saucermen From Mars.

That's cool, your Indy batting average is still like an insane 99.989%

 

[IrishJedi]

Another intersting thing too, with the Ark and the Grail, maybe not so much the stones in TOD, there was a sense that for the longest time, man had been seeking those things, but the city and skulls in KOTCS didn't seem that way, it seemed like a few looked but most considered it like a fairy tale, even Indy himself sorta fluffed it off like a legend, where things like the Ark made him light up and smile at the idea of having a chance to find it.

That's true, but they did soften that a tad by inferring that Akator was in fact El Dorado, and man has been looking for that almost as long as the biblical relics.