How do you define Horror?

[JAWS]

Just never thought Silence of the Lambs was all that scary. As Fry would say, "Maybe I am just too macho."
Silence has gore no doubt but gore does not equal horror. Robocop had some shocking, gory moments. What makes it so great is the mind games between Lecter and Starling, the detective work done to find the killer, the shocking set of events perpetrated by Buffalo Bill.
I compare it to Dirty Harry because there are undeniable similarities between Buffalo Bill and Scorpio. Silence was great, don't get me wrong, just not horror in my book. For me, a horror movie has to be scary, if Silence was scary it would be the greatest horror movie of all-time.
Scariest movie of all-time is Halloween in my book.
But then again it is all subjective, if Silence scared you then yes it is a horror movie. That is the great thing about this topic, everyone experiences horror in a different way.

I know it is all subjective and I don't want to beat a dead horse but this is fun.

Silence did not scare me. BUT very few horror films do. It's the feel of the film that make it horror IMO. It's not just the gore in Silence but the mood and tension. I saw this film in the theaters back in the day and the audience was squirming in their seats at th end of that film.

By the logic that a horror film has to be scary then there are endless horror films out there that are not horror films because they fail to scare. I would say that the Friday the 13th films are horror films but they are not at all scary. Perhaps not the best example but I could write a very long list of unscary horror films.

And I am surprised that you find The Terminator to be more of a horror film then Silence.

Oh well. No big deal. Lets get to the real big deal.


T3 = Sci Fi channel movie.
Really??? Wow. It's not a classic by any means but man thats harsh. I guess I never thought the film was too bad because I always felt that T2 was Way over rated so T3 was a surprise and that T3 actually had better action scenes then any of the Terminator films.

 

[piccolodaimaoh]

I know it is all subjective and I don't want to beat a dead horse but this is fun.

And I am surprised that you find The Terminator to be more of a horror film then Silence.

I'll tell you why I think The Terminator was a "horror" movie.

1. A killer hunting, stalking then terminating his victims
2. A killer that said little to nothing while hunting his prey.
3. The Terminator's absolute lack of care for human life, for example if he needed something, clothes, weapons, he would kill whoever had it if they showed resistance.
The part with the 3 punks were he ripped one of their hearts out and took their clothing.
The scene were he went "shopping" for guns, just put shells into the shotgun and killed the poor guy from Gremlins.
The scene in the Tech Noir nightclub were you could cut the tension with a knife waiting to see what The Terminator would do to Sarah Connor.
The slaughter in the police station.

Michael Biehn said it best:
"It can't be bargained with.
It can't be reasoned with.
It doesn't feel remorse.
Or pity.
Or fear.
And it absolutely will not stop, ever
Until you are dead."

Besides the flashbacks and the endo skeleton at the end there is almost no sci-fi in this film, just a killing machine doing his thing.
I think the best example of a sci-fi/horror movie is John Carpenter's The Thing from 1982, but I digress.

 

[BadMoon]

How do I define horror?

A thread of nothing but dekandantdave and ironman1188 posts...

LOL! I don't know Ironman. But DEFICATE Dave can get childish. LOL!

 

[piccolodaimaoh]

T3 = Sci Fi channel movie.
Really??? Wow. It's not a classic by any means but man thats harsh. I guess I never thought the film was too bad because I always felt that T2 was Way over rated so T3 was a surprise and that T3 actually had better action scenes then any of the Terminator films.

Believe it or not I liked Terminator 3, but lets be honest, there was really no need for a sequel.
It's like "Here's the sequel nobody asked for."
I called it a Sci-Fi Original film because I think that is what it felt like. Besides, wasn't it done by people who make Sci-Fi Originals?

The list of what is wrong with T3 could fill another thread but I will give 3:

1. Since when is the T-850 such a pushover? He get wrecked in this film easier then before.
2. Terminatrix? Lame. Lame. Lame. Lame. Lame.
3. So let me get this straight, everything they fought for in Terminator and T2 was for naught? The end of the world was going to happen and nothing could stop it. That bothers me.
Most of the great time travel stories tell us that the future is never set and our favorite characters can change their fates.

Those are the major points for me.

 

[BadMoon]

Man what a great thread though. Sci Fi would have to be anything in the future or in space. Anything based on science. Horror to me would be anything phsycological or bloody. Like murder and horrible things with monsters. Here in lies the problem. LOL! Hellraiser Bloodlines was both Sci Fi as well as Horror. I don't think you can break it down anymore. You just can't. I would say keep what you like. The rest get rid of.

 

[figuremasterles]

This is one of the most compelling threads I have seen here!

Great idea. Also, Rorshach test...
BUT...

Horror to me, is a movie that makes you, or the characters in it, face some significant fear. It may or may not resolve this, it may be a process story, as in, set up hero, set up scary villain, not always in that order, and establish scenario in which they meet, and one overcomes the other.
It depends on what kind of a tale it is on who wins.

I prefer my horror tales straight up. Go to the real deal. Gore? Forget it. Cheap thrill. Too easy. Gruesome imagery, maybe, sometimes that is enough. Scary idea....now that is going somewhere. Something that gets under the skin of both the hero or heroes, and you, the viewer, so that you both share in the "fun" of the chase...

This can be within a neighborhood, or out in space. In a volcano, or at sea. The locale really doesn't change the focus. If the focus is the setting, then a space movie may be a science fiction. If the focus is the folks in the space movie are afraid of a big bad, and that matters more than the hardware, then it is a horror film. No matter how wild the tech gets.

Horror can be a baby sitter looking out over a grassy marsh, and seeing the ghost of the old, dead, ex nanny staring back at the kids in her charge...as in one of my favorite HORROR movies, THE INNOCENTS...
OR, it can be Ripley, about to look around the corner to see if that big thing is still there where it was before, when she dropped the cat to go blow everything up. Same thing. A horrific scenario enacted before me. That is horror.

Blair Witch. It's all in the mind. Not just of the lead characters, but of you.
Psycho. The rules are destroyed when the "main star" is murdered halfway though...
The Exorcist, Same thing. A little girl becomes the vessel for the creepiest flash face, mind screwing, beastie thing ever put on film...and you have to go fix that...HECK NO! RUN! But no...must face...
JAWS, my all-time fave flick...guy hates water, shark's in the water...our shark...

On it goes.

I gotta admit too, that when that girl comes out of that TV at the end of THE RING...I almost pee'd right there....THAT's HORROR!

It's all in the mind.

 

[King Darkness]

Horror movies for me must MUST contain one or more of the following: Dead, undead, zombies, death, blood, pain, torture,revenge, fear, hate, knives, saws, machetes, chainsaws, axes, hammers, dismemberment, savage cannibalism, killers, maniacs, men in masks, gratuitous nudity, hash language, monsters, aliens, sea creatures, animated corpses, demons, devils, possessions, hauntings, and last but not least, ghosts.

 

[darth dypshyt]

For me, Horror has to contain suspense, fear and gore.....nudity is an option. ...A good musical score is the real key though...

 

[JAWS]

Believe it or not I liked Terminator 3, but lets be honest, there was really no need for a sequel.
It's like "Here's the sequel nobody asked for."
I called it a Sci-Fi Original film because I think that is what it felt like. Besides, wasn't it done by people who make Sci-Fi Originals?

The list of what is wrong with T3 could fill another thread but I will give 3:

1. Since when is the T-850 such a pushover? He get wrecked in this film easier then before.
2. Terminatrix? Lame. Lame. Lame. Lame. Lame.
3. So let me get this straight, everything they fought for in Terminator and T2 was for naught? The end of the world was going to happen and nothing could stop it. That bothers me.
Most of the great time travel stories tell us that the future is never set and our favorite characters can change their fates.

Those are the major points for me.

I love the Terminatrix. I thought after the T1000 nothing would compare but the actress pulled it off IMO.

And yes T2 was all for naught. I love how it was all pieced together. I love the whole skynet thing. But I think that is the diff. between you and me on this subject s that You seem to LOVE T2. I thought it was OK. In fact I was very dissapointed the first time I saw it in the theaters so many years ago. I hate, I mean HATE little john Conner and the whole t-850 telling jokes. Now the extended cut helped clear some of that up with the chip sub plot but the "I need a vacation" line has got to go.

John teaching the T-850 to smile is forever classic.

Anyways I am not trying to turn this into a T2 bashing thread.

Your comments on The Thing. I have never thought of that as a Sci fi film. Just straight up horror. Sure the creature is from space but the sci fi pretty much ends there.

And your points for Terminator being a horror film. I can see your what you are saying but to me you descibed a Tense action movie, not a horror film. Just my opinion of course but you made some good arguments.

 

[piccolodaimaoh]

I love the Terminatrix. I thought after the T1000 nothing would compare but the actress pulled it off IMO.

And yes T2 was all for naught. I love how it was all pieced together. I love the whole skynet thing. But I think that is the diff. between you and me on this subject s that You seem to LOVE T2. I thought it was OK. In fact I was very dissapointed the first time I saw it in the theaters so many years ago. I hate, I mean HATE little john Conner and the whole t-850 telling jokes. Now the extended cut helped clear some of that up with the chip sub plot but the "I need a vacation" line has got to go.

John teaching the T-850 to smile is forever classic.

Anyways I am not trying to turn this into a T2 bashing thread.

Your comments on The Thing. I have never thought of that as a Sci fi film. Just straight up horror. Sure the creature is from space but the sci fi pretty much ends there.

And your points for Terminator being a horror film. I can see your what you are saying but to me you descibed a Tense action movie, not a horror film. Just my opinion of course but you made some good arguments.

JAWS, I think you and I could discuss Horror/Sci-Fi for days and still have more to say.
I apologize for thinking you liked T2, I thought the majority liked T2 better than The Terminator. I personally like Terminator better because I thought it ended technically on a cliffhanger. I think T2 is one of the greatest Action movies ever, I never thought of the dehumanization of the T-850 in a negative sense.

But I see your point.

I saw Terminator as a child and I will admit that the T-850 instilled real fear in me. Yes, I knew it is a movie, but the movie was so well done that it made me forget that this could not happen. It made me forget that there are no cybernetic organisms travelling through time to change the future.

I know The Thing is more a horror movie than a sci-fi movie but the fact that the protagonist is an alien is what makes that distinction for me.

Did I mention this discussion is making me want to watch Terminator, Silence of the Lambs, The Thing and JAWS?

 

[creecher]

Horror has to scare you. I tend to avoid Modern Horror, as it relies too heavily on blood and guts, and to me, that utilises a different fear factor than Classic Horror. Horror that uses and creates it's fear factor in the mind, usually utilising a slight possibility, or small fact, and over exaggerating it. Playing on the 'what could be'.

 

[JAWS]

JAWS,

1. I think you and I could discuss Horror/Sci-Fi for days and still have more to say.

2. I apologize for thinking you liked T2, I thought the majority liked T2 better than The Terminator.

3. I never thought of the dehumanization of the T-850 in a negative sense.

4. Did I mention this discussion is making me want to watch Terminator, Silence of the Lambs, The Thing and JAWS?

1. Yes we could

2. I don't still dislike it. The extended cut improved it. I just don't love it. T1 is the best IMO.

3. I also think you ment humanization, not dehuminization. Because that was what I did not like until the Extended cut. The extended cut explained why he started to act more human. The original cut was just a cyborg telling bad jokes.

4. I know what you mean.

 

[piccolodaimaoh]

3. I also think you ment humanization, not dehuminization. Because that was what I did not like until the Extended cut. The extended cut explained why he started to act more human. The original cut was just a cyborg telling bad jokes.

Sorry for the slip, but you know what I mean. I meant the humanization of the T-850.
I personally liked the first Terminator better, it just seemed more serious, like more was on the line. How about part were Kyle Reese is in the police station telling the non-believing cops:
"He will find her, that's what he does, that's ALL he does!"
I do not remember the rest but it was something to the effect that the T-850 will stick his hand down her throat and rip out her heart. Something disturbing and graphic.

A cyborg telling bad jokes, isn't that every Schwarzenegger film?

 

[JAWS]

Sorry for the slip, but you know what I mean. I meant the humanization of the T-850.
I personally liked the first Terminator better, it just seemed more serious, like more was on the line. How about part were Kyle Reese is in the police station telling the non-believing cops:
"He will find her, that's what he does, that's ALL he does!"
I do not remember the rest but it was something to the effect that the T-850 will stick his hand down her throat and rip out her heart. Something disturbing and graphic.

A cyborg telling bad jokes, isn't that every Schwarzenegger film?

Cool, I just wanted to make sure you knew what I was talking about.


"That's what he does, That's all he does" I quote that line all the time. In Kyle Reese fashion of course.

No bad jokes in T1 or Conan the Barbarian. Arnold's best two films by far. Predator only ha a few and that's Arnie's 3rd best IMO.

 

[steve1971]

How do I define horror? One movie: Halloween. To me thats horror where there is a good story line and not alot of gore. The original Halloween had that all and more. Even after all these years have gone by Hallween still scares the hell out of me. The scariest thing for me is that you never know where or when Michael is going to pop up and I have yet to see a horror movie do that for me.


Just my thoughts.

:emperor