How could Old Ben be so wrong?

[Khev]

They were repeatedly shooting vehicles moving 500 miles per hour from the top of a cliff! You don't get any more precise than that.

Though I will say that kids watching ANH for the first time today probably crap their pants when the tusken raider aims his rifle at the tiny speck that is Luke's sandspeeder.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Where has this thread gone...?



Let's just face facts without giving it too much thought: in the context of the films as they stand, Ben comes across as a liar now if you watch the films in order.

If you're a kid and you watched the first three episodes and you're now watching ANH and Ben starts with his Vader story, you're sitting there going 'hey, that's not right'. So Ben isn't the 'wise old man' he was originally perceived to be... he's now 'up to something' and misleading.

There should be no debate about this. It's clear as day, no matter how you've come to justify it in your mind.

 

[pixletwin]

It's his wisdom that tells him to lie.

 

[Hume77]

As a kid I guessed wrong, but like most here I've long since learned that ANH was written to allow for Vader to not be the father and to lean in fact toward the notion that Anakin was a different guy. You keep citing a draft of TESB where Vader wasn't Luke's dad, but there are drafts of *Star Wars* where the bad guy was the father of twins. He just pushed all that aside when he completed the script for a potentially one-shot movie and then apparently had an epiphany after it was a hit that it would be cool to reinsert that idea. It would have been nice if he had integrated it a little more seemlessly but there you go.

Jesus Christ, we have an admission from the man himself that he inserted "father issues" later on, and yet you're still arguing? You are beaten. It is useless to resist. Don't let yourself be destroyed as Obi-Wan did.

If there are drafts of Star Wars where Vader (should I assume you mean Vader when say you "the bad guy"?) fathered Luke and his twin sister, then by all means, point me to them and I'll have a look.

 

[Khev]

Read "Star Wars The Annotated Screenplays." And quoting George himself as the end all be all of how the saga came to be is quite silly in this day and age. The man has contradicted and backtracked on his own claims more times than I can count.

 

[joebizz34]

I do think that overall the PT has changed the feel and overall story that we felt from just having the OT. We can justify and try to explain the mess ups of Lucas's bad writing all we want but watching all 6 films in a row does change how the story flows rather then just watching the OT. For one, kids today do get denied having the big shock when Vader says to Luke that he is his father. If you watch the films from Episode 1, then by the time you get to ESB that little tidbit is old news. My son is 5 and I always wondered how I would show him the movies when he gets into it. In some ways I feel like he should see them the same way I did. OT first and then PT. This way he experiences it the same way we did and will be surprised when Vader delivers that line. It's hard these days though. Even little kids today know the story especially if they watch the Clone Wars cartoon.

 

[Kamandi]

Luke and Leia evolved out of an earlier idea for a female character. She is depicted in some of Ralph McQuarrie's artwork for SW. Nothing was set in stone.

 

[Wor-Gar]

And quoting George himself as the end all be all of how the saga came to be is quite silly in this day and age. The man has contradicted and backtracked on his own claims more times than I can count.

Truth!

George is the LIAR!

 

[joebizz34]

Luke and Leia evolved out of an earlier idea for a female character. She is depicted in some of Ralph McQuarrie's artwork for SW. Nothing was set in stone.

Your right. Mark Hamill told a story at a convention that Lucas asked him if he would be interested in playing Luke again 10 or so years down the road as an older Jedi like Old Ben was in the first movie. He claimed that Lucas approached him about this idea when they were filming the original movie. Now unless Lucas is still planning this idea I would say plans got changed.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Lucas asked him if he would be interested in playing Luke again 10 or so years down the road as an older Jedi like Old Ben was

Excellent. Now Luke can be the LIAR in the next triology!

The circle is now complete.


He-Man: What have we learned today, kids?

That it is good and right to lie.

 

[Kamandi]

Luke doesn't have the knack for being a Bullsh-tter. He missed his big chance on Endor.

Luke: "Search your feelings, you know it to be true. Han is your brother."

 

[Hume77]

Read "Star Wars The Annotated Screenplays." And quoting George himself as the end all be all of how the saga came to be is quite silly in this day and age. The man has contradicted and backtracked on his own claims more times than I can count.

Do you know anything about how historians reconstruct history? One of their guiding principles is that embarassing admissions carry more weight than self-aggrandizing ones. In other words, if a person is saying something that is damaging or embarassing to himself/herself, it's more likely to be true than false - human psychology being what it is.

Here we have Lucas admitting something that doesn't reflect well on his creative ability - and his creative ability is the one and only thing he is famous for and beloved for. It's arguably THE most damaging admission he could possibly give (short of admitting that he simply plagiarized the entire story, I suppose, but that's just crazy), given that the father/son thing is perhaps the most famous reveal in the history of cinema and arguably the highest point in any of Lucas' movies. His cautionary "don't tell anybody, but . . ." to Carlton and Lindelof, before spilling the beans, is an indication that he recognizes the weight of his admission.

Finally, note that he made this admission two months after the original EMPIRE script was leaked on the internet. Previously, the script was under lock and key at Lucas films, so hardly anyone had seen it.

But I will take a look at the book you recommended.

 

[joebizz34]

I think Lucas has made so much money off this franchise at this point that he doesn't really care what people know. He has and will always make tons of money off Star Wars. While we are here nit picking his films, he's laughing all the way to the bank with his buddy Spielberg planning their next lame Indy sequel.

 

[Darth Madden]

I can't believe I just read though this entire thread and it can be summed up in one sentence....

Lucas had no clue what he was doing.

Things could have been much better (especially the PT) but I still love the movies.

 

[Khev]

Here's another one for you Wor-gar:

"If you strike me down I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."

Really? Because now we know Anakin imagined being powerful enough to stop people from dying. So you can stop people from dying now Ben? No? More powerful than he can possibly imagine...? LIAR!

 

[joebizz34]

Here's another one for you Wor-gar:

"If you strike me down I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."

Really? Because now we know Anakin imagined being powerful enough to stop people from dying. So you can stop people from dying now Ben? No? More powerful than he can possibly imagine...? LIAR!

Ok now you made me want to defend the movie again. LOL, what he meant there is he can become a spiritual guide for young Luke and help make him stronger to eventually defeat the Empire. So he was telling Vader the truth....from a certain point of view.

 

[The Mike]

or the fact that after Anakin dies he becomes just as powerful as Ben being a Force ghost...

I'm sure Lucas will just end up redoing the entire Original Trilogy with digital actors and really piss everyone else off.

 

[joebizz34]

or the fact that after Anakin dies he becomes just as powerful as Ben being a Force ghost...

I'm sure Lucas will just end up redoing the entire Original Trilogy with digital actors and really piss everyone else off.

After his eny for Avatar now...I wouldn't doubt it for a second. It will be in 3D too.

 

[Darthrazz]

or the fact that after Anakin dies he becomes just as powerful as Ben being a Force ghost...

I'm sure Lucas will just end up redoing the entire Original Trilogy with digital actors and really piss everyone else off.

You know it will happen in our lifetime....he'd better layoff the ESB though!

 

[jedibear]

I'm sure Lucas will just end up redoing the entire Original Trilogy with digital actors and really piss everyone else off.

No...after they're done pissing away anything interesting from the prequels (or the EU in general) with the Clone Wars cartoon...they keep the cartoon going right through the original trilogy timeline too...it'll be more intergalactic malls, more stick-women rulers with bad hair and brittle voices, more "Wizards and Warcraft" nonsense and they'll give Luke a spunky little girl playmate to go on adventures with...