How could Old Ben be so wrong?

[Wor-Gar]

One lie leads to another and so on.

No excuses.

I just find it interesting that Lucas will take the time to "fix" Han shooting first so we don't get the wrong impression of him... but then leave Old Ben to be a big, fat LIAR!

I'll never see Old Ben as anything other than the great and wise old man he was originally suppose to be because that is burned into my memory... but I'm so curious how young kids view him as they watch the prequels and then get to ANH and so many things the older Obi says are suddenly so inconsistent. It would drive me crazy.

 

[Qrest Fourstar]

I've always felt that what obiwan told himself to justify going to kill his best friend.


Besides, what are you going to tell a farm kid? You dad was a killer and scourge of the jedi?

 

[Wor-Gar]

I'd like more info on his alleged Kessel run time.... 12 parsecs my ass.

Exactly. How can you run a race in a shorter distance than the alotted run?

It's like saying I ran the 100 yard dash in 65 yards.

 

[KillingYouGuy]

Ok for the sake of starting a debate, I'm going to bite on this. LOL

He admitted later to Luke that the line about Vader murdering his father was the truth from a certain point of view. Meaning when he turned to the darkside, the bad in Anakin killed the good side of him.

You got him on the Obi name thing. The simple explanation to this is the first movie being written over 20 years before the Prequels. Don't blame Obi for this mistake, blame George Lucas for not remembering his own films. LOL

He didn't officially own a droid and if he didn't want to let on too much of his past to Luke since he wasn't ready to tell him the truth about Anakin, he probably said that to throw him off.

The last point about his father wanting him to have the lightsaber..well if he is already lying about Vader killing him, how else is he going to explain how he got it?

"Oh I picked up this saber that belonged to your father right after I beat him down and fried him in some lava". One lie leads to another and so on.

I would go even further in the argument, perhaps he is called Obi RIGHT after Luke is born, but we can assume he never goes by that name on Tatooine except to Luke's adoptive parents. And he goes to Tatooine right after that movie ends... so kind of nit picking it there.

 

[FQRizzo]

How could Old Ben be so wrong?

“He betrayed and murdered your father” – WRONG!

Explained in ROTJ

“I haven’t gone by the name Obi-Wan since, oh, before you were born.” – WRONG!

Well it about the time Luke was born. Twenty years had passed. Seems like splitting hairs.

“I don’t remember ever owning a droid.” – WRONG! (whether he ‘owned’ one or not, he had many of them)

Did he ever own one? Again not everything Obi says is "true"

"your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough; but your uncle wouldn't allow it." -- WRONG!

Not wrong, just another lie.

It's pretty obvious in ANH that Ben is trying to steer Luke down a certain path, even if he does lead the decision up to him.


Again, you could maybe add the line about Yoda: "The Jedi master who instructed me" into this list, though it was shown in AOTC that Yoda teaches younglings.

 

[barryo]

I'd like more info on his alleged Kessel run time.... 12 parsecs my ass.

and if you watch that part of the film closely you can see chewbacca roll his eyes a bit............

 

[Darthrazz]

Han should have died in ESB. Instead we got this sentimental guy running around aloof through the forest with Teddy Bears. I mean was Han Solo from ROTJ even the same character from ANH OR ESB?

 

[pixletwin]

Ben's a liar.

 

[Darth Mitchell]

Again, you could maybe add the line about Yoda: "The Jedi master who instructed me" into this list, though it was shown in AOTC that Yoda teaches younglings.

Yoda was the master of Dooku, who was the master of Qui-Gon, who was the master of Obi-Wan. So what he told Luke was right, from a certain point of view

 

[Wor-Gar]

Not wrong, just another lie.

I guess my point is: why did he ever have to be made out to be a liar at all. The father comment could have been explained, but all the others were just Lucas being lazy and not matching his storylines -- that he wrote! Seems easy enough to take a listen to the few lines Ben had and write a couple notes down before you begin the sequels about important things that must be covered to come full circle.

Lucas is big on the whole symbiosis thing: so where's the symbiotic relationship between young and old Obi-Wan? Or between the OT and PT? Dammit.

I mean was Han Solo from ROTJ even the same character from ANH OR ESB?

No.

 

[Darthrazz]

Yoda was the master of Dooku, who was the master of Qui-Gon, who was the master of Obi-Wan. So what he told Luke was right, from a certain point of view

Holy Crap! Two Sith were born out of YODA's teaching line!

 

[Wor-Gar]

Ah-Ha! So Yoda's a screw-up too!

New thread!

 

[FLOSI]

^^ Nerdiest post of the day nominee

He couldn't even shoot first!

Don't do that to me Mitchell... Don't put the burden of the SE versions on my view of Han, that's just wrong. Unaltered OT or nothing.

Oh how I miss the days of Han firing first, being introduced to Jabba for the first time in ROTJ, the old Max Rebo band and the the older Anakin ghost.

Exactly. How can you run a race in a shorter distance than the alotted run?

It's like saying I ran the 100 yard dash in 65 yards.

12 does not cover 18.

and if you watch that part of the film closely you can see chewbacca roll his eyes a bit............

Doesn't Obi Wan give Luke a dubious glance as well?

Morning Barry.

 

[Shropt]

Ben didn't lie at all, from a certain point of view.

 

[EVILFACE]

Don't forget: "your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough; but your uncle wouldn't allow it." When talkng about anakin's lightsaber.

Ben was originly ment to be Lukes father.

 

[Darth Waller]

Ben was originly ment to be Lukes father.

Did he not notice how hot Padme was? I would've hit it.

 

[The Mike]

Jedi are mystics, and often do not speak literally.

Well before the prequels they were mystics, the prequels turned the Jedi into more space cops than anything else.

To me this just proves that Lucas was full of ____ when he said the prequels were prewritten and that he just started with Episode IV. But to look at this in the mindset of what has been explained here we go:

“He betrayed and murdered your father” – WRONG!

The Sith consider themselves "reborn" into the order when they turn to the Dark Side and embrace it hence the new name. When Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader he left behind the life he led before. He betrayed his movement in the Jedi Order and the training received and destroyed that life. Saying he murdered him is just an exaggerated way or more dramatic way to look at it.

“I haven’t gone by the name Obi-Wan since, oh, before you were born.” – WRONG!

Well considering how Luke and Leia were born at the end of ROTS, I would regard this similar to the way old people say things like "oh, I used to walk 15 miles in the snow barefoot uphill both ways to school." It's just an old person telling a factoid in the same essentric way old people talk.

“I don’t remember ever owning a droid.” – WRONG! (whether he ‘owned’ one or not, he had many of them)

Again this is semantics. He was never shown to own them, he didn't say I don't remember ever using a droid. Not to mention he didn't recognize Artoo or Threepio upon sight (a bigger miscalculation) so for me this was just interpreted as the fact that he is an old man who lived in the Tatooine desert for at least 20 years by himself, all that alone time has got to have go a bit cabin crazy and senile to a point not to mention his age it could be naturally attributed to a faulty memory as most elders get where they can't remember smaller things but only grand events. A droid he owned wouldn't classify really.

"your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough; but your uncle wouldn't allow it." -- WRONG!

Now it was still well established that Owen didn't want Luke to follow in his father's footsteps. Nothing in the prequels changes that, only the reasonings behind it seeing that Anakin's jedi path led to what Owen was probably told was Anakin's death. So the uncle not allowing it is plausable. It would have to have the viewer assume that at some point in Obi-Wan's solitude he came across Owen and floated the idea of Luke becoming a Jedi or at least having the weapon. Now the father wanted you to have this part comes from Obi-Wan strictly considering that Anakin and Vader are in his perception two different people, he is trying to enlighten a boy about his father who was rarely spoken about and didn't want to crush the same childhood perfect ideal that we have of our parents that gets shattered as we get older. Luke still was in awe of what was being said to him about his father and so one can deduce that Obi-Wan wanted Luke to see Anakin as more of a hero than villain one that thought about his son and wanted his son to have his weapons the same way warriors in ancient times passed theirs down to their next of kin. It was a nice thing to make Luke feel warm and cuddly about dear ol' dad and nothing more.

So the greatest hero in the greatest Saga ever is left to become a blathering idiot in the movie that started it all. A new generation of kids sees Old Ben as nothing more than a detriment; they must be saying: “get that old coot outta there, he knows nothing!”

I think seeing his age in the OT compared to his younger more active self in the PT would naturally pull a "he was off because he is old". I'm sure some parents simply look at their inquiring kids and say "he just doesn't remember well like grandma" and move on. It is us diehards and knitpick at it and in reality nothing would really please us.

Do I think Lucas screwed up in not connecting things including dialogue from the PT to the OT definitely but I don't think it'll generally hinder a fan of Star Wars from enjoying the stories themselves. In fact I hear more complaints about things like this from OT purists who don't generally regard the PT already and it's just something to complain about further.

 

[agen_kolar]

With the lightsaber, perhaps Anakin had wanted to pass it down to his child eventually. Maybe Padme told Obi-Wan this, or maybe Obi-Wan could sense it in Anakin's thoughts.

 

[The Boot]

Again, you could maybe add the line about Yoda: "The Jedi master who instructed me" into this list, though it was shown in AOTC that Yoda teaches younglings.

Yoda was the master of Dooku, who was the master of Qui-Gon, who was the master of Obi-Wan. So what he told Luke was right, from a certain point of view

How do we know that Yoda didn't train Obi-Wan when he was a youngling?

I assumed that's how it worked; Yoda trained lil' Obi in Youngling School and Qui-Gon handled the rest. More or less.

 

[devastator's balls]

Obi is my fav but he's also forgetful:

(Luke flies to bespin to save his friends)
Obi: " That boy is our last hope."
Yoda: "No, there is another..."