1/6 Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker-CRAIT (Force Projection) -

[Khev]

Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

And Khev, you almost single-handedly elevated my latest TLJ viewing with your "ghostly x-wing" underwater shot idea after Luke dies. Man, if only...could have been a moment that brought a tear to the eye.

I hear you. Even though I love the movie I can't deny that there are a good number of frustrating missed opportunities. After watching Plinkett's review and hearing him say that it should have been Leia doing the lightspeed kamikaze (and I know he isn't the first to suggest that change) I couldn't help but think about how much better the film would have been if they just removed Holdo completely and didn't have Leia blasted out into space.

I mean she and Poe were already arguing in the very first scene so why not just keep her healthy the whole film and have them continue to argue as he did with Holdo? Then you totally eliminate the goofy Mary Poppins scene, eliminate the purple hair, and give everyone's favorite Princess the most epic death in the Saga. Do that and cut out Canto Bight entirely (just have Finn and Rose and DJ fly from Leia's ship directly to Snoke's with a slight change to DJ's character obviously) add in that last X-Wing shot and I think they would have had a homerun that wouldn't have caused any of this controversy.

And for whatever it's worth I can't help but question the validity of my "vocal minority" claims with regard to TLJ's critics after Solo bombed. I just can't fathom how such an entertaining *Star Wars movie* could have so shockingly underperformed if there wasn't something in play like a legitimate fanbase backlash.

 

[ajp4mgs]

Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

I hear you. Even though I love the movie I can't deny that there are a good number of frustrating missed opportunities. After watching Plinkett's review and hearing him say that it should have been Leia doing the lightspeed kamikaze (and I know he isn't the first to suggest that change) I couldn't help but think about how much better the film would have been if they just removed Holdo completely and didn't have Leia blasted out into space.

. . . and give everyone's favorite Princess the most epic death in the Saga. . . .

Leia was supposed to be a major player in Episode IX. It's already been stated publicly that Han was more central in TFA, Luke was more central in TLJ, and Leia would have been more central in Ep9. That was the breakdown for the three main OT characters. So, what sense would it have made to kill off Leia in Ep8?

And for whatever it's worth I can't help but question the validity of my "vocal minority" claims with regard to TLJ's critics after Solo bombed. I just can't fathom how such an entertaining *Star Wars movie* could have so shockingly underperformed if there wasn't something in play like a legitimate fanbase backlash.

I can't speak for anyone else - only for myself - but the Solo movie was never one that I even wanted to see. I've gone to every SW theatrical release since ROTJ in 1983, but I was on the fence about going to Solo ever since it was first announced. A Han Solo movie without Harrison Ford, and without any implications for the broader SW universe, had very little appeal for me. Then Kasdan's Pando comments, combined with the Maul cameo rumor, sealed the deal for me. I still haven't seen it. I will; but out of nothing more than mild curiosity.

Episode IX will be vastly different, imo. Hamill, BDW, footage of Carrie, the end of the saga, the possibility of Anakin/Vader being involved, the Knights of Ren, settling the Rey/Kylo thing, and the much bigger hype machine that Disney will use for this - all lead me to believe that everything will be fine at the SW box office again. Some fans who hated TLJ will use the excuse that JJ "fixed" everything in IX in order to save face, but many of them will be there too. That's what I'm expecting. We'll see.

 

[ShadowX81]

Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

Leia was supposed to be a major player in Episode IX. It's already been stated publicly that Han was more central in TFA, Luke was more central in TLJ, and Leia would have been more central in Ep9. That was the breakdown for the three main OT characters. So, what sense would it have made to kill off Leia in Ep8?

After Carrie Fisher died they should have reevaluated and redone what they could with editing, using CGI to fill in the gaps.

To be honest they should have done that to begin with. No one really wanted to see Luke be pathetic, do basically nothing, and then die. We wanted the hero we all knew and loved to kick some butt and save the day. Hell, even if they had just cut his death and kept the door open for the promise of a more active Luke Skywalker in Episode IX I think things would have gone a lot better. A lot of the problem was that this is literally all we are going to get from him.

But the whole Poe/Holdo, and Finn/Rose plotlines really needed a major overhaul.

Im still not confident that all will be right with the Star Wars box office come next year. While I don't think it will do as bad as Solo (the reasons you pointed out no doubt hurt it despite it turning out to be decent), there's still a lot of bad will left over from Episode XIII that Disney will have to work hard to overcome. I just don't think "The epic finale of the adventures of characters you still don't really care about" in and of itself is going to build a lot of hype. And now matter how good the film turns out to be, its going to need that hype going into the premiere to make the numbers it wants.

 

[Smash]

Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

Idk man. I'd be willing to put cash down on IX having a pretty huge opening. Not only is the conclusion always bigger than the second movie of a trilogy in numbers, but the cast they've picked up on this movie is going to make some people see it just for that. I'm sure a number of people that weren't happy with TLJ are still going to see it opening weekend. Some won't, but some will.

And again, Solo's biggest failure in the box office was timing and a lack of marketing. You can bet your ass it would have made a ton more if it came out in Dec instead of May following IW and Deadpool 2. Not even because the movies came out the week before, but because Disney wouldn't allow LFL to push extra marketing for Solo prior to Infinity War. They also refused to let them move it back to December. And we also need to remember Solo had x2 it's budget because they essentially reshot the entire movie (thanks to Lord and Miller).

Anywayyyyyy..... Regarding Leia. I'm glad they didn't kill her in TLJ. In terms of her doing the lightspeed scene, she then wouldn't have had her scene with Luke and frankly I thought Carrie did a great job with Leia in TLJ. Far better than she was in TFA. A lot of her moments with Poe were excellent IMO, specifically the latter ones. One thing I love about Leia in TLJ that I don't see mentioned much is that Leia was kinda hot headed herself in the OT. Very short temper, etc. Leia in TLJ for the most part is calm, collected, and frankly a great leader. So I'm glad they didn't off her at the lightspeed kamikaze.

There's a decent amount of stuff in TLJ I'm not a fan of, but all of the Kylo/Rey/Luke stuff was all top notch for me. I'm really excited to see them in IX.

 

[Smash]

Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

To be honest they should have done that to begin with. No one really wanted to see Luke be pathetic, do basically nothing, and then die. We wanted the hero we all knew and loved to kick some butt and save the day. Hell, even if they had just cut his death and kept the door open for the promise of a more active Luke Skywalker in Episode IX I think things would have gone a lot better. A lot of the problem was that this is literally all we are going to get from him.

Why does everyone act like TLJ suddenly made Luke a failure? TFA did that. In TFA we find out that Luke had an academy and it was destroyed, Luke blamed himself and ran away from it all, "left it all behind" according to Han, etc. I'm not sure why so many people have got it in their head that Luke was meant to come back guns blazing like nothing ever happened after TFA. THAT would not have made sense if he was just like "Oh hey, Rey! you found me (I'm your dad btw), lets go kick some ass!". Dude was there for a reason, which is stated in TFA.

In TLJ Luke has a complete character arc and goes from disillusioned legend/hero and comes back to save the day at the end. That's all part of the hero's journey btw. I feel like most people's issues with Luke in TLJ actually stem from him dying as opposed to anything else with him during the movie. And with him being announced in IX and Yoda interacting physically as a ghost in TLJ, I feel like that should make some people feel better at least. We know we're going to get more of him somehow. Would it have been better if they kept him alive through IX? Time will tell. One thing is for sure, it would have taken more focus off the ST chars and had everyone just care about what Luke will do in IX. That's why they essentially wrote him out of VII in the first place.

 

[ShadowX81]

Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

Well when you are right you are right.

Thought im sure they could have made up some reason why Luke went to that planet that didn't involve him being a complete pathetic and nihilistic character. Something other than him just giving up. People can do all the mental gymnastics they want to try and justify why it was perfectly in character, but at the end of the day it just wasn't the hero we knew, wanted, or needed for the film to be fulfilling. Sometimes I don't want to have my "expectations subverted". I just want a good film that is enjoyable.

But you are right that a lot of these problems were set up in TFA. And to be honest, while I didn't loathe that film the same way I did TLJ, ive never been a real fan of it either. And a lot of my criticisms have nothing to do with borrowed story elements from ANH. Mostly they have to do with shallow and muddled characterizations that didn't really set us up to have a team we could really root for. With Rey being a perfect Mary Sue when she should have been world weary yet idealistic, and Finn being kind of a pathetic ineffectual idiot when he should have been a hardened bad*** looking for redemption.

Kylo Ren was an interesting idea, but even he is ultimately kind of a pathetic character who purposely pales in comparison to Darth Vader.

The biggest problem with TLJ for me was that I just don't give a crap about any of these people, and the movie hasn't done a good enough job to tell me why I should other than the fact that they are the main characters. And that reflects more on TFA.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

After Carrie Fisher died they should have reevaluated and redone what they could with editing, using CGI to fill in the gaps.

To be honest they should have done that to begin with. No one really wanted to see Luke be pathetic, do basically nothing, and then die. We wanted the hero we all knew and loved to kick some butt and save the day. Hell, even if they had just cut his death and kept the door open for the promise of a more active Luke Skywalker in Episode IX I think things would have gone a lot better. A lot of the problem was that this is literally all we are going to get from him.

But the whole Poe/Holdo, and Finn/Rose plotlines really needed a major overhaul.

Im still not confident that all will be right with the Star Wars box office come next year. While I don't think it will do as bad as Solo (the reasons you pointed out no doubt hurt it despite it turning out to be decent), there's still a lot of bad will left over from Episode XIII that Disney will have to work hard to overcome. I just don't think "The epic finale of the adventures of characters you still don't really care about" in and of itself is going to build a lot of hype. And now matter how good the film turns out to be, its going to need that hype going into the premiere to make the numbers it wants.

While I tend to agree with you on all points, it’s bittersweet for me.

If it had planned out that way, I wouldn’t have gotten that last Luke and Leia scene. Which honestly makes up for a lot of what I was dissatisfied with. That scene totally floored me. Not quite tear jerking but very gut wrenching because it’s Mark and Carrie’s last moment on screen together. Both as the characters and actors in a film. Eerily meta in a way.

And who knows what will happen in Episode 9? They’re just recycling footage from TFA.

 

[hen88]

Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

Anywayyyyyy..... Regarding Leia. I'm glad they didn't kill her in TLJ. In terms of her doing the lightspeed scene, she then wouldn't have had her scene with Luke and frankly I thought Carrie did a great job with Leia in TLJ. Far better than she was in TFA. A lot of her moments with Poe were excellent IMO, specifically the latter ones. One thing I love about Leia in TLJ that I don't see mentioned much is that Leia was kinda hot headed herself in the OT. Very short temper, etc. Leia in TLJ for the most part is calm, collected, and frankly a great leader. So I'm glad they didn't off her at the lightspeed kamikaze.

I love Carrie's performance in TLJ. You can see how all the death and destruction is taking a toll on her. Also - I like her depiction as the figure head of the Resistance in a seemingly futile war. Blowing up a big weapon is not really winning when your adversary has endless resources and keeps coming back with more raw power. Her performance truly captured the struggles of leadership. It reminded me of the world-weariness of George Washington during the Revolutionary War.

 

[Khev]

Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

Yes I did really like Leia's performance in TLJ as well. It's interesting how her arc echoed that of Mon Mothma's from RO to ROTJ. In RO Mothma cracked a smile at the news of Raddus' fleet going to war but then appeared crushed over the deaths of Bothans she didn't even know in ROTJ. Compared to Leia similarly eager to throw ships into a suicide mission against the first Death Star and then years later mourning the loss of a tactically victorious bomber fleet.

 

[parrasmaniac]

Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

Yes I did really like Leia's performance in TLJ as well. It's interesting how her arc echoed that of Mon Mothma's from RO to ROTJ. In RO Mothma cracked a smile at the news of Raddus' fleet going to war but then appeared crushed over the deaths of Bothans she didn't even know in ROTJ. Compared to Leia similarly eager to throw ships into a suicide mission against the first Death Star and then years later mourning the loss of a tactically victorious bomber fleet.

 

[TaliBane]

Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

I hear you. Even though I love the movie I can't deny that there are a good number of frustrating missed opportunities. After watching Plinkett's review and hearing him say that it should have been Leia doing the lightspeed kamikaze (and I know he isn't the first to suggest that change) I couldn't help but think about how much better the film would have been if they just removed Holdo completely and didn't have Leia blasted out into space.

I mean she and Poe were already arguing in the very first scene so why not just keep her healthy the whole film and have them continue to argue as he did with Holdo? Then you totally eliminate the goofy Mary Poppins scene, eliminate the purple hair, and give everyone's favorite Princess the most epic death in the Saga. Do that and cut out Canto Bight entirely (just have Finn and Rose and DJ fly from Leia's ship directly to Snoke's with a slight change to DJ's character obviously) add in that last X-Wing shot and I think they would have had a homerun that wouldn't have caused any of this controversy.

And for whatever it's worth I can't help but question the validity of my "vocal minority" claims with regard to TLJ's critics after Solo bombed. I just can't fathom how such an entertaining *Star Wars movie* could have so shockingly underperformed if there wasn't something in play like a legitimate fanbase backlash.

I told your x-wing idea to my buddies as we were watching and everyone agreed it was genius. Made me look good too.

I just saw that Plinkett review pop up, haven't watched it yet. It's almost at 1.5m views in a week - that's insane for a film review/analysis.

 

[Khev]

Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

I told your x-wing idea to my buddies as we were watching and everyone agreed it was genius. Made me look good too.

Sweet.

I just saw that Plinkett review pop up, haven't watched it yet. It's almost at 1.5m views in a week - that's insane for a film review/analysis.

I'd definitely give it a watch, even as a fan of the movie I found it very entertaining so you'll probably think it's outright hilarious. He is off an a few of his criticisms (he complains that TLJ opens with the FO "magically" locating the Resistance base when the final act of TFA already made it clear that they knew where they were) but otherwise his points are pretty well thought out and even balanced. Yes the overall review is on the negative side but entertainingly so.

 

[Saintv1]

Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

I'm surprised we're not seeing this at shows yet it must still be a ways out. The wait is quite punishing; I really want to see it.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

 

[ajp4mgs]

Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

I'm surprised we're not seeing this at shows yet it must still be a ways out. The wait is quite punishing; I really want to see it.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

Yeah, this and the Emperor are my two most anticipated figures that I'm having a tough time waiting for. But I'm not expecting anything new on this one until after the other TLJ Luke has been released.

 

[chemicals]

Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

I hear you. Even though I love the movie I can't deny that there are a good number of frustrating missed opportunities. After watching Plinkett's review and hearing him say that it should have been Leia doing the lightspeed kamikaze (and I know he isn't the first to suggest that change) I couldn't help but think about how much better the film would have been if they just removed Holdo completely and didn't have Leia blasted out into space.

I mean she and Poe were already arguing in the very first scene so why not just keep her healthy the whole film and have them continue to argue as he did with Holdo? Then you totally eliminate the goofy Mary Poppins scene, eliminate the purple hair, and give everyone's favorite Princess the most epic death in the Saga. Do that and cut out Canto Bight entirely (just have Finn and Rose and DJ fly from Leia's ship directly to Snoke's with a slight change to DJ's character obviously) add in that last X-Wing shot and I think they would have had a homerun that wouldn't have caused any of this controversy.

And for whatever it's worth I can't help but question the validity of my "vocal minority" claims with regard to TLJ's critics after Solo bombed. I just can't fathom how such an entertaining *Star Wars movie* could have so shockingly underperformed if there wasn't something in play like a legitimate fanbase backlash.

I love how people on youtube are somehow now film experts.

Canto Bight and Holdo are very integral to the movie, without CB and DJ Finn would have no reason for staying with the Resistance. If Holdo was anyone else, there would be no reason for the audience to distrust them. Having say 'Ackbar' for example, the audience would not believe that they could be a traitor or some sort and root for Poe against him. Thats kind of the whole point. Canto Bight also introduces a new aspect of war to the universe; war profiteering. As we also see near the end of the film, the children slaves living there were inspired by the actions of Luke, Rose and Finn. I wish Hot Toys would make a Rose figure.

"I just can't fathom how such an entertaining *Star Wars movie* could have so shockingly underperformed if there wasn't something in play like a legitimate fanbase backlash" - This simply just isn't true. as many others have said before, what made the movie 'fail' was a lack of marketing and a bad release date, trying to compete with other even larger films such as Infinity War. Just because its Star Wars doesn't mean people are going to see that over IW or that Han interests many casual viewers, especially when there was no clear marketing for the film. Many did not even know it was yet released. Much of this is due to the change of directors and not showing any marketing until they started to remake the film 80% of the way.

It's just kind of sad to see any single thread even over an action figure comes down to critiquing a movie.

 

[hen88]

Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

I love how people on youtube are somehow now film experts.

Canto Bight and Holdo are very integral to the movie, without CB and DJ Finn would have no reason for staying with the Resistance. If Holdo was anyone else, there would be no reason for the audience to distrust them. Having say 'Ackbar' for example, the audience would not believe that they could be a traitor or some sort and root for Poe against him. Thats kind of the whole point. Canto Bight also introduces a new aspect of war to the universe; war profiteering. As we also see near the end of the film, the children slaves living there were inspired by the actions of Luke, Rose and Finn. I wish Hot Toys would make a Rose figure.

"I just can't fathom how such an entertaining *Star Wars movie* could have so shockingly underperformed if there wasn't something in play like a legitimate fanbase backlash" - This simply just isn't true. as many others have said before, what made the movie 'fail' was a lack of marketing and a bad release date, trying to compete with other even larger films such as Infinity War. Just because its Star Wars doesn't mean people are going to see that over IW or that Han interests many casual viewers, especially when there was no clear marketing for the film. Many did not even know it was yet released. Much of this is due to the change of directors and not showing any marketing until they started to remake the film 80% of the way.

It's just kind of sad to see any single thread even over an action figure comes down to critiquing a movie.

 

[momaw]

Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

Totally agree that TLJ had nothing to do with Solo's performance. Sales of TLJ on disc back this up. Solo was a victim of many things. Doubling the production costs didn't help either. It's a real shame as the more I see Solo, despite being the "Star Wars"movie I never wanted in the first place, I now really want a sequel. And a solo Lando movie (no pun intended). These anthology movies have been the boost Star Wars has needed to bring back the spirit of the OT, yet moving forward with the times.

 

[Hoody999]

Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

It's just kind of sad to see any single thread even over an action figure comes down to critiquing a movie.

Yes, but there must be something in that mustn't there, considering there are a lot of hard core fans here.

 

[vito81]

Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

I'm the master of PAINT...

Come on, hot toys, 2 months...

 

[davejames]

Re: Hot Toys - Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Luke Skywalker (Force Projection) - CONFIRM

I know we were thinking this figure was inevitable before, but the further away we get from TLJ the more I'm starting to have doubts. And it may well be that the lackluster sells for other TLJ figures have made them reconsider releasing this one...