About the new 52, and general question about artists

[BrooklynWolf X]

Don't know if this is the appropriate place for this discussion, but here goes.

Is the new 52 considered a great success? So far I'm digging it. I like the night of the owls arc, batgirls story, action comics is pretty good, and flash is really good. Justice league is kind of hit and miss for me. I generally like it, however its pace is too break neck for me. And Jim lee, while I like his art, its starting to come off as repetitive. Everyone has the same body type. Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to offend any Jim lee fans, but he is a BIT overrated IMO. And his redesigns for the heroes...well, ugh....I don't know how I feel about it. He might as well have done nothing, because the designs arent significant enough.

And my question about western comics and their artists. Why dont artists stick around and continue drawing a certain title? Why do they have a limited run time with them? Please shed some light on this for me. I never understood the concept of that. For instance, I was reading my brothers tpb vol of nightwing. I think the artists name was McDaniel or something. I loved his style and all of his panels were alive. But then he moved on and I just lost interest in it. I know, the story is all that matters in comics, but it's a visual medium, and consistent good art is always appreciated.

In regards to the new 52, ive been reading them since it's launch, but I never really jumped into any prior discussion over here at ssf. So in some ways, I'm late to the party.

 

[oeren]

I think its generally considered a success. I know DC sales have gone back up to rival Marvel's because of it. And there's been some talk a while back that Marvel should do the same thing.

My personal favorites are Batman, Flash, Green Lantern, Swamp Thing, and Aquaman. I also know what you're talking about with Nightwing. Youre talking about the 90's volume, the one Chuck Dixon started. Those were some of the most fun comics ive ever read.

As for jim lee's art, i agree that he's a bit overrated, at least in my opinion. Not enough expression and variety for me. I used to love davis finch's art too, until i realized he was the same.

I do have to disagree that story is all that matters in comics. I think telling that story through the art is just as important. Which is why i think stories like Black Mirror, Kingdom Come, and Court of Owls are such successes. The art matches the type of story and the artist are able to express certain moods and scenes through their art.

 

[Kamandi]

I think its generally considered a success. I know DC sales have gone back up to rival Marvel's because of it. And there's been some talk a while back that Marvel should do the same thing.

Marvel did do the same thing - first.

DC is doing an "Ultimate" universe, but they let go of their regular continuity to do this. Fortunatly DC has the multiverse and at some point when the novelty of this wears off they can roll back whatever changes have been considered failures. But they re-started all of their series numbering. I'd like to see that restored.

On the other hand the Marvel Ultimate universe co-exists and allows 616 fans to still have their continuity.

 

[mr.x]

I'm no insider, but I think it's because you could probably layout a story faster than you can draw it and there are deadlines to be met if that issue needs to be consistently put out on a monthly basis, so they need to call on other artists to carry some of the weight.

I noticed it in the last action comics/or superman (can't remember which one it is atm) And the last few pages completely differ from the majority of the first half. I thought it was a mini story or epilogue because the artist and coloring were completely different from one other, it was rather jarring.

As a whole I like the new character designs. I'm glad they get rid of the 'underwear' and modernized the look, although you didn't really need to reboot the entire universe to do that. X-men seem to do it all the time and i'm perfectly fine with it. The only real standouts are Superman & Batman while everyone seemed to retain their classic look for the most part.

 

[Rex Mason]

DC is considering the New 52 a success at the moment for the simple fact that the company is producing less comics but making more profit than before the relaunch. While sales numbers are dwindling every month, as of right now, most titles are still above their pre-relaunch sales.

Six months from now, I doubt we'll be able to say the same thing. The numbers appear to be heading towards what they were pre-New 52, with the few exceptions of Batman, Action, and Justice League. (Which would have sold well due to the creators involved with or without the relaunch.)

And yes, Marvel did the relaunch thing before, but it wasn't the Ultimate Universe. DC is copying that format for their Earth-1 books. Marvel's relaunch was the Heroes Reborn series in the 90s which lasted a little over a year before the characters were returned to their normal universe. Even some of the same editors, writers and artists are involved in this DC relaunch, which explains some of the dubious quality on several of the titles.

Honestly, The New 52 is an obvious flash-in-the-pan boost to sales which won't stand the test of time. Luckily for me, Batman's world hasn't been changed too much, so I only have to morn the passing of some of my favorite Justice League and Teen Titans stories.

 

[Rex Mason]

Also, to answer the question about comic artists, the landscape of the industry has changed, and if an artist stays too long on one title, his career is considered stagnant if the book is not doing phenomenal numbers. It could hurt him from getting high profile jobs in the future. So most feel the need to jump from title to title, which suits most artists just fine, as they enjoy changing up their daily routines by drawing different characters.

 

[Kamandi]

The artists are in many cases more of a selling point than the writers today. Many of the a-list writers have complained about their reduced clout in the past few years.

 

[BrooklynWolf X]

Also, to answer the question about comic artists, the landscape of the industry has changed, and if an artist stays too long on one title, his career is considered stagnant if the book is not doing phenomenal numbers. It could hurt him from getting high profile jobs in the future. So most feel the need to jump from title to title, which suits most artists just fine, as they enjoy changing up their daily routines by drawing different characters.

But don't sales start slumping once the artist jumps ship? I don't know about other people, but once the artist changes, so does my interest in the title. Usually because the follow up artist just isn't as good as the previous one, or worse, flatout sucks, which then changes the entire mood of the comic for me, regardless if the writer is still on board. I kind of have a feeling that its about to or has happened with justice league. Is Jim lee the on going artist for JL?

I love Greg capulos art since his spawn days, and I wish he will be the on going artist for batman in the foreseeable future. Ugh, I just wish these things are more consistent. Which brings me to my next question...why don't western comics have a more robust staff? Like in manga, they have guys doing backgrounds for the main artist...but in western comics, the artist does everything.

I just want a better understanding about this industry.

 

[Rex Mason]

But don't sales start slumping once the artist jumps ship? I don't know about other people, but once the artist changes, so does my interest in the title. Usually because the follow up artist just isn't as good as the previous one, or worse, flatout sucks, which then changes the entire mood of the comic for me, regardless if the writer is still on board. I kind of have a feeling that its about to or has happened with justice league. Is Jim lee the on going artist for JL?

I love Greg capulos art since his spawn days, and I wish he will be the on going artist for batman in the foreseeable future. Ugh, I just wish these things are more consistent. Which brings me to my next question...why don't western comics have a more robust staff? Like in manga, they have guys doing backgrounds for the main artist...but in western comics, the artist does everything.

I just want a better understanding about this industry.

Some readers follow titles based on the artist, others follow titles based on the writer, and others follow the characters themselves. I tend to buy comics based on the characters and/or writer that interest me. And while yes, readers do tend to jump ship when an artist or writer leaves a book, those same readers tend to pick up the title the artist or writer moves to. So while a particular editor might not want an artist to leave a particular book, the artist normally is tempted away by a different editor with a different big name project or a bigger paycheck. And in many cases, the artist's fans will follow him wherever he goes.

As to your other questions, Jim Lee is the ongoing artist on Justice League, hence the reason the title is so popular. There were a few fill-in issues, but Lee is back for the new story line.

Also, many American artists view it as "cheating" to let another artist draw parts of his or her artwork, especially those artists with more of a stylized approach to drawing comics. Many even prefer the opportunity to ink themselves, so the idea of other artists drawing part of their work doesn't particular interest them. Not everyone shares this opinion, though. For instance, Adam Kubert has other artists draw his backgrounds.

 

[stoods77]

Ok, i don't read DC(more of a Marvel person) so excuse my ignorrance, but what is the NEW 52?

 

[DCM81]

Ok, i don't read DC(more of a Marvel person) so excuse my ignorrance, but what is the NEW 52?

what he said. Just got my first ever DC *goes in cover* comics: Kingdom Come and Hush. Digging Kingdome Come at the moment and love Alex Ross' artwork.

The discussion applies to all comics though, so here's my 2 cents.

I tend to be more drawn to a comic due to the artist and of course my fav characters. If the art is stunning but the story only mediocre, 9 times out of 10 I'll still like the comic. If, on the other hand, the story is great but the art sucks I have a hard time reading to the end - it's like pulling teeth for me! Best example of this (IMO) was Watchmen *goes in cover again* which I never finished!
On the flipside there's also perfect writer/artist team-ups like Millar & McNiven often do or Warren Ellis' run on Thunderbolts with Mike Deodato as the artist!

And Jim lee, while I like his art, its starting to come off as repetitive. Everyone has the same body type. Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to offend any Jim lee fans, but he is a BIT overrated IMO.

I don't think one can approach comic book artists from that stand point. Jim Lee just has his personal style, it's his look and his way to draw. I think it's pretty much the same with every artist. Once they've established their style or look they pretty much stick with it. Someone mentioned Greg Capullo for instance - love his art - but he's also not changed his style. Same goes for other big artists like Alex Ross, Marc Silvestri, Romita Jr., Frank Miller, Mignola, etc. etc. It's what keeps us as faithful fans to their work. We know it, we love, and I wouldn't want it to change for the world.
To finish off my little rant: the same principle applies to to great traditional artists/painters like van Gogh, Salvador Dali even MC Esher and HR Giger......Picasso, of course is a different story

EDIT: I think this would be a better place for this thread: https://www.sideshowcollectors.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=60
Mods??

 

[BrooklynWolf X]

Some readers follow titles based on the artist, others follow titles based on the writer, and others follow the characters themselves. I tend to buy comics based on the characters and/or writer that interest me. And while yes, readers do tend to jump ship when an artist or writer leaves a book, those same readers tend to pick up the title the artist or writer moves to. So while a particular editor might not want an artist to leave a particular book, the artist normally is tempted away by a different editor with a different big name project or a bigger paycheck. And in many cases, the artist's fans will follow him wherever he goes.

As to your other questions, Jim Lee is the ongoing artist on Justice League, hence the reason the title is so popular. There were a few fill-in issues, but Lee is back for the new story line.

Also, many American artists view it as "cheating" to let another artist draw parts of his or her artwork, especially those artists with more of a stylized approach to drawing comics. Many even prefer the opportunity to ink themselves, so the idea of other artists drawing part of their work doesn't particular interest them. Not everyone shares this opinion, though. For instance, Adam Kubert has other artists draw his backgrounds.

Thanks for clearing things up for me...I guess I'm just used to how manga is produced. Granted, with manga, it's the creator that is doing the artwork and story, therefore he alone needs to stick with it, when he leaves, the series ends. I just wish some artists stick around for more than 2-3 story arcs.

As for the artist discussion, I never saw it that way. Again I'm approaching it from the manga side of things where the background artist helps speed things along since manga is a weekly deal as opposed to comics monthly set up.

 

[BrooklynWolf X]

what he said. Just got my first ever DC *goes in cover* comics: Kingdom Come and Hush. Digging Kingdome Come at the moment and love Alex Ross' artwork.

The discussion applies to all comics though, so here's my 2 cents.

I tend to be more drawn to a comic due to the artist and of course my fav characters. If the art is stunning but the story only mediocre, 9 times out of 10 I'll still like the comic. If, on the other hand, the story is great but the art sucks I have a hard time reading to the end - it's like pulling teeth for me! Best example of this (IMO) was Watchmen *goes in cover again* which I never finished!
On the flipside there's also perfect writer/artist team-ups like Millar & McNiven often do or Warren Ellis' run on Thunderbolts with Mike Deodato as the artist!


I don't think one can approach comic book artists from that stand point. Jim Lee just has his personal style, it's his look and his way to draw. I think it's pretty much the same with every artist. Once they've established their style or look they pretty much stick with it. Someone mentioned Greg Capullo for instance - love his art - but he's also not changed his style. Same goes for other big artists like Alex Ross, Marc Silvestri, Romita Jr., Frank Miller, Mignola, etc. etc. It's what keeps us as faithful fans to their work. We know it, we love, and I wouldn't want it to change for the world.
To finish off my little rant: the same principle applies to to great traditional artists/painters like van Gogh, Salvador Dali even MC Esher and HR Giger......Picasso, of course is a different story

EDIT: I think this would be a better place for this thread: https://www.sideshowcollectors.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=60
Mods??

Don't get me wrong, Jim lee's work is nothing to scoff at. I just wish he would diversify it up a little. Make each character that's wearing a superhero outfit physically different from one another. It's his style, sure, but some variety would be nice. His art pops at you, the way he frames things is pleasant...it's just, i see room for even more growth.

And Greg's style has definitely changed. I don't know if it's because he's working on a character such as batman or if he's trying something new, but his stuff now compared to his spawn run is really different. Pleasant surprise.

 

[DCM81]

And Greg's style has definitely changed. I don't know if it's because he's working on a character such as batman or if he's trying something new, but his stuff now compared to his spawn run is really different. Pleasant surprise.

Like I said I only just got my first DC comics yesterday so I didn't realize he was doing Batman. The last work I say was on Haunt which looked very similar to his Spawn stuff.
Just checked out some pics of his Batman and I really like it! It really does seem like his style's evolved somewhat on Batman! It's still unmistakably Capullo but different....hard to explain.....great thanks a bunch man - didn't want to buy anymore this month but thanks to you I just ordered The Court of Owls

 

[BrooklynWolf X]

Like I said I only just got my first DC comics yesterday so I didn't realize he was doing Batman. The last work I say was on Haunt which looked very similar to his Spawn stuff.
Just checked out some pics of his Batman and I really like it! It really does seem like his style's evolved somewhat on Batman! It's still unmistakably Capullo but different....hard to explain.....great thanks a bunch man - didn't want to buy anymore this month but thanks to you I just ordered The Court of Owls

Lol don't worry man, it's worth it. Great story arc along with great art. You won't be disappointed!

 

[Rex Mason]

Do check out the current Batman series. It's the best stuff in the New 52 right now.

@stoods77: The New 52 is the name given to the event in which DC Comics has restarted all their titles over at # 1 (all 52 of them), changing the continuity and backstory a bit here and there in an attempt to get new readers.

Also, other great DC stories to pick up:

Batman: The Dark Knight Returns
Batman: Year One
Batman: The Killing Joke
Batman: Arkham Asylum (by Grant Morrison)
All-Star Superman
Batman: The Long Halloween
Watchmen
And the list goes on and on...

 

[stoods77]

Do check out the current Batman series. It's the best stuff in the New 52 right now.

@stoods77: The New 52 is the name given to the event in which DC Comics has restarted all their titles over at # 1 (all 52 of them), changing the continuity and backstory a bit here and there in an attempt to get new readers.

Also, other great DC stories to pick up:

Batman: The Dark Knight Returns
Batman: Year One
Batman: The Killing Joke
Batman: Arkham Asylum (by Grant Morrison)
All-Star Superman
Batman: The Long Halloween
Watchmen
And the list goes on and on...

Ok cool, thanks for that, it's like what Marvel did a little while ago.