1 per person limit lifted for hobbits! Go get them!

[Darth Cruel]

It almost sounds to me like some are implying that Sideshow should make the 9 party members even if they lose money on them or their credibility will be damaged.

I have yet to see anyone use "they didn't finish that other line" as a reason to not collect a line. I think most people are smart enough to understand that if the fan base does not support the line, it is wrong to continue it.

Nobody in their right minds chooses to lose money for no reason.

I want to believe that the line will do well enough to get us the 9 part members, a few Orcs, and a few others like Saruman, Arwen, Rosie Cotton, Sam and Rosies kids, Grima Wormtongue, Theoded, Denethor, Eowyn, or hell, ANYONE. But if it has to end at 7, I will not blame Sideshow for that.

Edit - And by the way...if Sideshow has to knock the ES down to a couple hundred and charge me 2 or 3 times the current price for the figure to sell them out and keep the line going...I will buy them.

 

[galactiboy]

Have to agree with Bodie... the line needs an injection of villains, all these good guys and humanish characters is rather boring. Don't get me wrong, the figures have generally been very good... but we need some variety.

 

[Darth Cruel]

I agree that there may come a time when it doesn't make sense to continue with the line (although the fault for that lies squarely with how Sideshow has handled it, IMHO). But I do think that they could be negatively impacting their own future sales by killing it too early. I think everyone who bought into the line expected to get at least the fellowship, if not a much wider range of figures, and they may be more reluctant to start a new line in the future if there is no guarantee that they'll get the major figures in a particular series.

There is NEVER any garantee of that, ever in any line, in any company. There is no fault. There is only demand or no demand, and supply or no supply. And business does not work that suppliers create or destroy the demand. They simply supply what there is a demand for. Now it can be said that there are fans out there that blame Sideshow (or any other company) for being slow, or being expensive, or whatever. But that again falls back on the fan, not the comapny. It is not Sideshow's fault if the collector wants to be finicky. This line may not have gotten to us perfectly. But I see no reason to assume that Sideshow has handled it in some monstrously poor manner.

 

[pixletwin]

There have been a few lines besides LOTR where the release schedule killed the line. I believe LOTR isn't being killed but its momentum has been greatly impacted by production time delays and lack of bad guy characters. In addition the movies came out awhile ago so the interest in the line, period, has waned a bit. But I think you may exaggerating icruise's POV a bit as well.

 

[Entropy]

Of course there was the Weta/Sideshow Fellowship debacle. I would think it even worse if Sideshow doesn't come through with the Fellowship this time.

C'mon. At least 3 more figures.

The announcement of the small bodies got me excited about a likely Fellowship, but the sluggish Frodo/Sam sales has me worried about the last 2, even less popular, Hobbits. I feel like the next releases should be Gimli then Saruman then Merry & Pippin. If there's any after that it's gravy.

 

[Lord Aykroyd]

I cant believe that SSC would build small bodies and not sell as many characters using them as possible - economically, it doesnt make sense - so at the least, I think we'll see Marry, Pip, and Gimli...

 

[customizerwannabe]

If they released one orc the sales would be phenomenal. Everyone would want multiples so they could make more by bashing them.

 

[icruise]

There is NEVER any garantee of that, ever in any line, in any company. There is no fault. There is only demand or no demand, and supply or no supply. And business does not work that suppliers create or destroy the demand. They simply supply what there is a demand for. Now it can be said that there are fans out there that blame Sideshow (or any other company) for being slow, or being expensive, or whatever. But that again falls back on the fan, not the comapny. It is not Sideshow's fault if the collector wants to be finicky. This line may not have gotten to us perfectly. But I see no reason to assume that Sideshow has handled it in some monstrously poor manner.

I can't agree with that. Go back and read the threads for the early figures in the line. People were very eager and excited, and that slowly ebbed away with the substandard paint apps and the months (actually more than a year in some cases) between announcement and shipping, the months between new product announcements, etc. I don't see how you can blame the fans for being finicky in this kind of situation. A company absolutely can create or destroy demand depending on how they handle their line.

Now I'm not a hardliner that says Sideshow did everything wrong -- far from it. The figures overall are very good. And Lord of the Rings is on the downswing right now, so that definitely contributes to the problems of the line as well.

 

[pixletwin]

...There is only demand or no demand, and supply or no supply....

If a company fails to "strike the anvil while its hot" you can bet it effects demand.

 

[pixletwin]

A company absolutely can create or destroy demand depending on how they handle their line.

 

[Amir]

Wow, I figured this would happen, I’m glad I sold off my LOTR figs a while back. This line was going too slow for me but all I wanted from the start was a full fellowship set of figures, guess that is very unlikely now from what everyone is saying.

 

[Darth Cruel]

pix and icruise - Companies are under absolutely zero responsibility to present product to the consumer on the consumer's terms. Companies will try their best to meet as many of the terms as thery can. But they are the ones who have to deal with the hurdles to get the product to the consumers, not the consumers. Consumers who are so arrogant that they will throw tantrums and quit buying a product because they don't get it presented to them perfectly as they think it should be are the cause of the end of a product.

The bottom line is...if we will buy it, the company will make it for us. If we will not, they won't.

 

[icruise]

pix and icruise - Companies are under absolutely zero responsibility to present product to the consumer on the consumer's terms.

If they want the customers to actually buy their products, then yes they do have a responsibility to meet the customer's terms. Is this really so hard to understand? A company could come out with shoddy quality figures that cost $10,000 apiece and by your definition if they fail, it's the customer's fault. A company has to make products that appeal to customers, at a price point that they find acceptable.

Now it's possible that in some cases that won't be possible. Maybe a certain property is too limited in terms of its fan base to support a full line of figures, or maybe it isn't possible to produce what the customer wants at a reasonable price. In the case of the LOTR line, I think the falling popularity of LOTR combined with higher fuel and raw materials prices have had a big effect on the future of the line, but so has Sideshow's handling of it. So again, not all of the blame can be placed at Sideshow's feet, but I really don't get this "it's all the customer's fault" mentality.

 

[Darth Cruel]

If a company fails to "strike the anvil while its hot" you can bet it effects demand.

Cliche's sound good...but they are made just for that purpose. To make an argument sound good

If by "strike the anvil when it is hot" you mean "get lots of product out fast". That sounds great until you run in to problems like (and this is only one example of problems that companies face) a production facility that does a poor job on your product. Then you have to decide whether you want to send out poor products fast or good products slow. Now, suddenly you have to choose between two groups of malcontents. The ones who prefer fast and the ones who prefer good. The company has no more control over that than they do the weather. The consumer has to step up and decide to be patient or not. And if the consumer can't compromise, the product ends at no fault to the company.

 

[Darth Cruel]

If they want the customers to actually buy their products, then yes they do have a responsibility to meet the customer's terms. Is this really so hard to understand? A company could come out with shoddy quality figures that cost $10,000 apiece and by your definition if they fail, it's the customer's fault. A company has to make products that appeal to customers, at a price point that they find acceptable.

Now it's possible that in some cases that won't be possible. Maybe a certain property is too limited in terms of its fan base to support a full line of figures, or maybe it isn't possible to produce what the customer wants at a reasonable price. In the case of the LOTR line, I think the falling popularity of LOTR combined with higher fuel and raw materials prices have had a big effect on the future of the line, but so has Sideshow's handling of it. So again, not all of the blame can be placed at Sideshow's feet, but I really don't get this "it's all the customer's fault" mentality.

Is that all you read of that post? Just the part you quoted? If your view is that narrow...you will not be able to ba a part of discussing the point to a conclusion.

 

[icruise]

Wow... I guess I'm just not getting through to you.

 

[Darklord Dave]

I would hate for SSC to decide NOT to do a line because they can't guarantee to do all the major characters from it. Until they start putting out merchandise they really don't know how it will sell or how long they can continue. I'm sure they never dreamed they'd be making the Bridgekeeper when they started the Holy Grail line.

I can't believe the weakness of this line is due to anything SSC has or hasn't done. They've put more work into this series than anything before and it hasn't generated the kind of return necessary to the effort. Even if Aragorn and Faramir's paint aps had been as good as Frodo and Sam, I don't think that would have effected the strength of the line one wit.

The Hobbit is a seperate license and I really can't see SSC going after 1/6 for it considering the results of the LotR sales.

 

[Darth Cruel]

Wow... I guess I'm just not getting through to you.

I understand you perfectly. But I can't agree to lay blame on the company for issues that are beyond the control of the company. If by "not getting through to me" you mean "not making me agree with you", in order to do that, you have to use clear points with inarguable justifications that take in to account BOTH sides of the issue. I can be swayed if there is justification. I do not blindly follow a belief without constantly verifying that it is valid.

 

[icruise]

I understand you perfectly. But I can't agree to lay blame on the company for issues that are beyond the control of the company. If by "not getting through to me" you mean "not making me agree with you", in order to do that, you have to use clear points with inarguable justifications that take in to account BOTH sides issue. I can be swayed if there is justification. I do not blindly follow a belief without constantly verifying that it is valid.

But how can you say I'm not taking both sides into account? I think I've bent over backwards to point out that it's not all Sideshow's fault. What I do blame them for are the very long gaps between a product's announcement and its release, the long gaps between product announcements in the line, and the major differences in paint quality between the prototype and the production figure (at least in the past). Surely you see how these can affect people's enthusiasm, and therefore the success of the line. No?

 

[Darth Cruel]

But how can you say I'm not taking both sides into account? I think I've bent over backwards to point out that it's not all Sideshow's fault. What I do blame them for are the very long gaps between a product's announcement and its release, the long gaps between product announcements in the line, and the major differences in paint quality between the prototype and the production figure (at least in the past). Surely you see how these can affect people's enthusiasm, and therefore the success of the line. No?

Absolutely, I see how these things CAN affect enthusiasm. But it is up to us to choose whether they DO affect enthusiasm. Sideshow can not control that. They make me mad ,as well, when my Faramir paint app looked ATTROCIOUS. I also don't like to wait. I don't need to save money for stuff. I have such a good job that I can get 50 Sideshow figures a month and not miss the money. But I am not going to let that make me stop buying the product because I understand that Sideshow has to react to obstacles that they did not create. And as a quality inspector (much different industry, same basic patterns) I can tell you that happens a lot.

Sideshow can do their best to get the product out as good as it can be in a reasonable time. But they can not dictate the tolerance of the consumers to wait that time. The consumers' desire (demand) for the item has to do that. Supply never creates demand...when there is a supply, it is always because the demand was there first. And if the consumer's demand is not strong enough to tolerate the wait, it can not be said that that is the company's fault.

The consumer can say I quit because the company didn't do what I wanted. But the consumer can't say it is the company's fault that they didn't do what the consumer wanted.

Let me ask you a question.

What specific actions did Sideshow make that you feel is causing the lack of interest in the LOTR line?