Jazzinc The Batman - Batmobile 1/6 Deluxe

nathan.never said:

1966 has problems with scratches in glossy paint (advice was to buff it out with car polish ), windshield frame does not sit flush with the car body, doors do not close completely flush, outlines of red lines paint are wobbly.

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Yeah, I had a lot of similar problems with my 1966 Batmobile. It was a complete mess and one of the most disappointing high-end 1:6 purchases of my 20+ years of collecting. While the car looked impressive at first glance it only took a few minutes to see all the glaring faults. Detailing and craft issues like paint are one thing, but to see such crucial design, engineering, mechanical, manufacturing and workmanship faults (like doors not closing flush or the broken hood not opening because it was fused shut with sloppy adhesive) are another. They eventually sold these faulty cars admittedly as discounted B-stock, or re-sold them from returns, but still shipped them out to buyers at full price in their initial batches. That shouldn't have been happening from the start.

I don't hate Jazzinc in the slightest or mean to discredit them – in fact I admire them greatly for what they're attempting to do and chose to support their collector/crowd-funded approach – but I'm surprised at what they allow to leave their production floor that eventually makes it to the final boxing and mailing stages. Do they not know or see when a product is faulty before shipping it out? They seem to be missing a step in the process. For convenience, we might call that "quality control", but in this collector community we tend to throw that term around too easily without a clear definition of measure, so I'll just call it a "pause" in their process. I realize they operate with a margin of inconsistency in their products, but it would save them a lot of back-peddling, returns, refunds and general customer support if they paid attention to what was being shipped out.

We can debate about what constitutes quality for a price, but that's a very subjective topic with no real measure. Some will pay hundreds while others are comfortable with thousands. There's no lateral measure or guarantee of what a price tag equates to when buying comparable products from different companies. The issue here is what Jazzinc allows to leave their factory and into the buyer's hands. They should be aware of what they're shipping, there's room for improvement in that "pause" stage, and I do think it's a valid point of critique. It's not an active discrediting of the company (like Danoby deliberately engages in), but an honest consumer concern that Jazzinc could benefit from listening to.

nathan.never said:

All that being said, I like all the vehicles I own from jazzinc, since they are from my favorite IPs, and I would not own them if not for jazzinc. I also admire his commitmnet to research of screen accuracy.
But nevertheless, I believe there is no fault in pointing out the mistakes and problems, as it can only serve to better the next product. Why should I say nothing, when I paid as much as I did?

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My feelings exactly. We don't need to find ourselves quarrelling and childishly bashing each other in a tribal way to assert dominance in the discussion here. As I said, unlike someone like Danoby who clearly targets, attacks and unfairly discredits certain makers for his own agenda, we're generally supportive of them (Jazzinc, in this case) and appreciate the options they've added to the collector base. However, it's not wrong or unfair to critique when they've clearly fallen short somewhere in the products we buy from them. We're the buyers and ultimately we have the final product in our hands representing the last point in the chain of that object's existence. If it has faults we're where those issues will be felt, but those faults should be felt and rectified by the maker before the buyer receives them. It's just that simple of a point of accountability.

Kebron said:

Yes the same argument is still made. Are you expecting these crafters to make these items and sell them at a loss? Are these crafters not suppose to make a profit?

Your argument on if buyers are content with issues is a subjective one not the objective one you are trying to prop it up as. It’s already been pointed out what you see as a fault, others do not.

You have and streamers like Danoby do not speak for all the buyers. What one person sees as a glaring fault others don’t as we can see from the wheel debate. What one person considers quality and a worthy investment others do not.

Again I ask why not just let people buy what they want to buy instead of trying to make them feel bad or question their purchase?

If what Joost and JazzInc makes is overpriced and such a flawed product riddled with QC issues as you and streamers like Danoby claim they would have closed up shop years ago because no one would be buying their product. But yet here they are growing, expanding, and making a lot of collectors happy.

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You missed my point entirely.

My price argument was that, no matter the reason behind asking price, buyer should expect quality that is matching that price. It is basic economy.
So, when I said that if the price was 10K pre unit, for just 10 units made, would you still find a product a masterpiece, or even acceptable, with all the shortcomings (and be honest, there are shortcomings, as there are in any other product from any other company)? Or do your expectations rise when you pay more for something?
Do you expect same picture quality from a 500$ TV as you do from a 2000$ TV? Or does the picture quality not factor in when you are choosing a new TV?
The reasoning that these are the only products of this kind on the market does provide some merit in the argument, and some level of forgiveness is to be given for the mistakes made (I certainly gave it, otherwise I would return each of the product I bought from jazzinc). But it becomes harder to "forgive" when mistakes repeat with each new release, although complaints have been made, while the asking price creeps upwards.

I am not trying to make anybody feel bad, why should I? Quite the opposite, I want everybody to be happy. I taught that this whole discussion serves to point out what can be done better. Mind you, I do have 1989 on order, despite all the problems and faults I had with my previous Jazzinc purchases (please see my previous post for more details).
And these problems are not made up, or "subjective" as some of you would have me believe, these are real, quantifiable faults.

And please, do not paint me the same as Danoby.
The difference is that I put my money towards jazzinc products, and backed up his bussiness idea since his first venture into Death Star Hallway Diorama (it was in 2016 I believe). And since then I bought 6 of his pieces, so I do think I earned a little credit to speak out loud about the good and the bad.

nathan.never said:

You missed my point entirely.

My price argument was that, no matter the reason behind asking price, buyer should expect quality that is matching that price. It is basic economy.
So, when I said that if the price was 10K pre unit, for just 10 units made, would you still find a product a masterpiece, or even acceptable, with all the shortcomings (and be honest, there are shortcomings, as there are in any other product from any other company)? Or do your expectations rise when you pay more for something?
Do you expect same picture quality from a 500$ TV as you do from a 2000$ TV? Or does the picture quality not factor in when you are choosing a new TV?
The reasoning that these are the only products of this kind on the market does provide some merit in the argument, and some level of forgiveness is to be given for the mistakes made (I certainly gave it, otherwise I would return each of the product I bought from jazzinc). But it becomes harder to "forgive" when mistakes repeat with each new release, although complaints have been made, while and the asking price creeps upwards.

I am not trying to make anybody feel bad, why should I? Quite the opposite, I want everybody to be happy. I taught that this whole discussion serves to point out what can be done better. Mind you, I do have 1989 on order, despite all the problems and faults I had with my previous Jazzinc purchases (please see my previous post for more details).
And these problems are not made up, or "subjective" as some of you would have me believe, these are real, quantifiable faults.

And please, do not paint me the same as Danoby.
The difference is that I put my money towards jazzinc products, and backed up his bussiness idea since his first venture into Death Star Hallway Diorama (it was in 2016 I believe). And since then I bought 6 of his pieces, so I do think I earned a little credit to speak out loud about the good and the bad.

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No I saw your point. What you aren’t getting is quality is subjective as I said. You are trying to put a person’s opinion as a measurable fact on a product. People judge quality and worth differently amongst each other. It’s why their are so many “opinions” out there on everything from Movies to 1/6 model cars.

For your 10k/10 unit example you are leaving out a lot of information. What faults are you imagining in this fictitious product, what do you imagining the short comings are? Details matter even in an imagined scenario. Give me specific issues for the imagined price point the. I can give you a honest answer.

For your TV example you are again leaving out a lot of information. Does the more expensive TV offer me something different then just picture quality that warrants the price? Why exactly is the TV more expensive. I can easily detail out to you why a JazzInc 89 Batmobile costs more then a Hot Toys one they are two very different products despite both being 89 Batmobiles. Please provide more information on these two imagined TVs

The fault listed is subjective though. The wheel issue has been explained, it’s not a fault it’s been explained by Joost and others here. Objective faults like paint issues are few and when reported to Joost he works with the customer to resolve the issue even if it means a refund, and let’s not pretend issues like that aren’t seen across the industry. The 22 and 66 I have don’t have any paint issues.

To you it maybe a discussion on what can be done better but to others it seems like a continual hate fest on JazzInc especially when Joost himself chimes in on the issue and you still keep talking about your perceived “issues” and the price point of his products.

So you say you keep buying his product despite you complaining about issues and price point, but you want to question me on imagined TVs and 10k products. How about answering this question. Why do you keep buying his products if you think they are overpriced and constantly have issues? Answering that will probably give you my answers to your imagined/hypothetical questions.

Kebron said:

The fault listed is subjective though. The wheel issue has been explained, it’s not a fault it’s been explained by Joost and others here. Objective faults like paint issues are few and when reported to Joost he works with the customer to resolve the issue even if it means a refund, and let’s not pretend issues like that aren’t seen across the industry. The 22 and 66 I have don’t have any paint issues.

To you it maybe a discussion on what can be done better but to others it seems like a continual hate fest on JazzInc especially when Joost himself chimes in on the issue and you still keep talking about your perceived “issues” and the price point of his products.

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This - nailed it!

It just seems like he's trolling.

nathan.never said:

And please, do not paint me the same as Danoby.
The difference is that I put my money towards jazzinc products, and backed up his bussiness idea since his first venture into Death Star Hallway Diorama (it was in 2016 I believe). And since then I bought 6 of his pieces, so I do think I earned a little credit to speak out loud about the good and the bad.

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Yet you and danoby both feel entitled to flog Joost over a non-issue, and you don't even own this product. One's responses will always dictate how they are perceived by others. We all earn our reputations.

I also wanna say, we need more pictures in this thread! I want to see how others are displaying this!

Kebron said:

Give me specific issues for the imagined price point the. I can give you a honest answer.

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I just meant to say that one set of issues (take your pick, you can use my list of issues I had with Falcon, Landspeeder and 1966 a few posts back) can be acceptable if you buy something for 500$, but become unacceptable if you spend 2000/5000/10K $. But of course, everybody's upper limit for certain tolerances is different, hence I chose the 10K example thinking this is high enough number for you to start examining quality more closely (just a guess, maybe your limit is much higher, or maybe money is of no matter for you so you don't even have a limit).

Kebron said:

The fault listed is subjective though.

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The faults I was referring to were about my Falcon, Landspeeder and 1966 purchases. Go back a few posts and read all about it. These are undeniably NOT subjective, or otherwise you have no understanding of that word.

Kebron said:

Why do you keep buying his products if you think they are overpriced and constantly have issues? Answering that will probably give you my answers to your imagined/hypothetical questions.

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Like I said, I gave the company (and continue to give) some credit, respecting them for what they do and how they interact with the community. I chose not to be so judgmental and follow them in this path, hoping the quality will improve as they grow. And I still have this hope...
But, truth be told, I did forfeit on some preorders I initially wanted, due to the problems I had with previous purchases.

1989 is a grail for me, and it will be the item that either "makes or breaks" this company in my eyes.
I am all done turning a blind eye, just because there are no other options. We shall see how this turns out, for me it is kind of a turning point.
This is by no means meant as bashing of any kind towards jazzinc, it is my honest decision.

Anyway, I don't see the point in continuing this discussion, as we obviously see things very differently.
Maybe I value my money more, or maybe I just don't have as much of it to spend on this hobby as you do.
Whatever the reason, you are free to spend yours as you like, and find value in what you can buy for it.
And please don't think somebody has an agenda against fellow collector or jazzinc, just because they find this value to be less than you do.

BigWayne said:

This - nailed it!

It just seems like he's trolling.



Yet you and danoby both feel entitled to flog Joost over a non-issue, and you don't even own this product. One's responses will always dictate how they are perceived by others. We all earn our reputations.

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Only one trolling here is you.
It is obvious you are not even reading my posts in their entirety, and just continue to attack me.
Your level of arrogance is sky-high.

What's the deal with all that extra material that got added at the bottom of the car?

nathan.never said:

Only one trolling here is you.
It is obvious you are not even reading my posts in their entirety, and just continue to attack me.
Your level of arrogance is sky-high.

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For future reference, if you have another "defect" with a product you don't own, feel free to keep it to yourself.

I'm probably the only person here that has bothered to read your posts in their entirety, and also actually reviewed the videos you referenced. Not only did you fail miserably to even remotely articulate an actual problem, but you've attacked both supporting members and forum sponsors in the process. And I'm arrogant? Perhaps you should invest in a mirror. Maybe even crack open your wallet for $2/month so the rest of us aren't footing the bill for your "freedom of expression".

We should all step back for a moment and recognize that you're obviously entitled to all the deflection and name calling you care to engage in because, after all, it isn't easy being the perpetual victim. My apologies for not recognizing that earlier, but it's pretty clear now.

Best of luck to you finding a quality 1989 batmobile when you cancel your preorder because it has a real suspension. That is, of course, assuming you really have one on order.

/trollHasBeenFed

nathan.never said:

You missed my point entirely.

….
Do you expect same picture quality from a 500$ TV as you do from a 2000$ TV? Or does the picture quality not factor in when you are choosing a new TV?
The reasoning that these are the only products of this kind on the market does provide some merit in the argument, and some level of forgiveness is to be given for the mistakes made (I certainly gave it, otherwise I would return each of the product I bought from jazzinc). But it becomes harder to "forgive" when mistakes repeat with each new release, although complaints have been made, while the asking price creeps upwards.

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I am sorry, I did not wish to further the argument anymore, I had made my point. You claimed that Danoby was right, and that there was a quality issue, and a design fault where there was none, even though you do not own the vehicle.

I can let that go, but for this comparison, I believe you are missing the point. In case of televisions, they would both be produced at high quantities so that you are comparing apples to apples, but comparing us to hot toys, and especially on the pricing, most of the cost goes to the fact that we make less than 10% of their typical runs. So, then also demanding that we deliver double on features, material and quality and extras like in your example of the televisions, is completely unreasonable, because then I would have to spend the same money twice.

As I have said many times before, I am the only company that puts 70% of what you pay so 70 cents to every dollar you pay me back into your product. That is unheard of, because in the instance of hot toys, they and their factories have to make money, but if you buy it in the USA, sideshow also has to make money so there is much less money left to put into the actual product. That is the simple reason why nobody else is making these vehicles. The business model really does not make sense for the traditional collectible companies. That is why Hot Toys has already said in interviews. They will not be doing any more new large vehicles, except for some re-issues. it is also the reason that InArt has been backing down on this 2022 Batmobile project that they claimed they would make in 2022.

So, I ask you to compare apples to apples, and not apples to oranges like Jazzinc and hot toys. We are not like your TV example.

As for quality control, we have made enormous leaps. you are talking about products from 2017 with the first two examples, and if you are unhappy with your 1966, I will gladly buy it back from you for the exact price you paid for it, including shipping. our 1966 vehicle has already been made much more perfect than the actual vehicle was, and this is the limit to what we can do. If there were scratches in there that we suggest you buff out with wax, then they were tiny polishing scratches indeed. I know this, because I review all these Customer Support questions personally. Right now, our issues are below one percent since 2023, which is lower than the industry standard


Again, if you are unhappy, I will offer you a full refund, including shipping.

JazzInc said:

I am sorry, I did not wish to further the argument anymore, I had made my point. You claimed that Danoby was right, and that there was a quality issue, and a design fault whether it was none, even though you do not own the vehicle.

I can let that go, but for this comparison, I believe you are missing the point. In case of televisions, they would both be produced at high quantities so that you are comparing apples to apples, but comparing us to hot toys, and especially on the pricing, most of the cost goes to the fact that we make less than 10% of their typical runs. So, then also demanding that we deliver double on features, material and quality and extras like in your example of the televisions, is completely unreasonable, because then I would have to spend the same money twice.

As I have said many times before, I am the only company that puts 70% of what you pay so 70 cents to every dollar you pay me back into your product. That is unheard of, because in the instance of hot toys, they and their factories have to make money, but if you buy it in the USA, sideshow also has to make money so there is much less money left to put into the actual product. That is the simple reason why nobody else is making these vehicles. The business model really does not make sense for the traditional collectible companies. That is why Hot Toys has already said in interviews. They will not be doing any more new large vehicles, except for some re-issues. it is also the reason that InArt has been backing down on this 2022 Batmobile project that they claimed they would make in 2022.

So, I ask you to compare apples to apples, and not apples to oranges like Jazzinc and hot toys. We are not like your TV example.

As for quality control, we have made enormous leaps. you are talking about products from 2017 with the first two examples, and if you are unhappy with your 1966, I will gladly buy it back from you for the exact price you paid for it, including shipping. our 1966 vehicle has already been made much more perfect than the actual vehicle was, and this is the limit to what we can do. If there were scratches in there that we suggest you buff out with wax, then they were tiny polishing scratches indeed. I know this, because I review all these Customer Support questions personally. Right now, our issues are below one percent since 2023, which is lower than the industry standard


Again, if you are unhappy, I will offer you a full refund, including shipping.

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I’ll take the spare if there is one please!!

JazzInc: Well said. And the offer of buying the product back goes above and beyond with regard to customer service - certainly wouldn't get that from other manufacturers. Very much looking forward to the 1989.

Pure class

1989 Batmobile has metal axles

JazzInc said:

I am sorry, I did not wish to further the argument anymore, I had made my point. You claimed that Danoby was right, and that there was a quality issue, and a design fault whether it was none, even though you do not own the vehicle.

I can let that go, but for this comparison, I believe you are missing the point. In case of televisions, they would both be produced at high quantities so that you are comparing apples to apples, but comparing us to hot toys, and especially on the pricing, most of the cost goes to the fact that we make less than 10% of their typical runs. So, then also demanding that we deliver double on features, material and quality and extras like in your example of the televisions, is completely unreasonable, because then I would have to spend the same money twice.

As I have said many times before, I am the only company that puts 70% of what you pay so 70 cents to every dollar you pay me back into your product. That is unheard of, because in the instance of hot toys, they and their factories have to make money, but if you buy it in the USA, sideshow also has to make money so there is much less money left to put into the actual product. That is the simple reason why nobody else is making these vehicles. The business model really does not make sense for the traditional collectible companies. That is why Hot Toys has already said in interviews. They will not be doing any more new large vehicles, except for some re-issues. it is also the reason that InArt has been backing down on this 2022 Batmobile project that they claimed they would make in 2022.

So, I ask you to compare apples to apples, and not apples to oranges like Jazzinc and hot toys. We are not like your TV example.

As for quality control, we have made enormous leaps. you are talking about products from 2017 with the first two examples, and if you are unhappy with your 1966, I will gladly buy it back from you for the exact price you paid for it, including shipping. our 1966 vehicle has already been made much more perfect than the actual vehicle was, and this is the limit to what we can do. If there were scratches in there that we suggest you buff out with wax, then they were tiny polishing scratches indeed. I know this, because I review all these Customer Support questions personally. Right now, our issues are below one percent since 2023, which is lower than the industry standard


Again, if you are unhappy, I will offer you a full refund, including shipping.

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Thank you for giving your answer.

If I was that much unhappy with the products I purchased, I would have returned them already. But does the fact that I kept them, despite the problems I found ban me from mentioning these problems?

Everybody in this thread is so sensitive to any form of critisism, it is unbeliveable, like a cult...

And to think that probably most don't even own half of your products as I do, dating back to 2016... Ok, I do not own 2022, never said I did, never wanted it since the movie and the vehicle are not important to me, but I do own 6 other your products, and have spent around 5000$ buying from you. If that is not enough that I make some obesrvations about problems, then I am truly sorry and take everything back. Is the praise the only form of feedback we are allowed?

Everything I said about my problems with Falcon cockpit, Landspeeder and 1966 is 100% true and objectafiable. Even you admitted this when I corresponded with you, even though I found your solutions to these problems lacking since they amounted to making repairs myself including repainting certain parts on my own. You never once offered to take these products back, only just now when these were made public. To be completely honest, I myself never requested from you to take them back, because I supported you and had understanding for problems that can happen when you are starting this enormous projects.

But this kind of attack I myself have experienced in this thread, either from you or others of your followers makes me rethink if my credit and good faith was warranted.

JazzInc said:

I am sorry, I did not wish to further the argument anymore, I had made my point. You claimed that Danoby was right, and that there was a quality issue, and a design fault whether it was none, even though you do not own the vehicle.

I can let that go, but for this comparison, I believe you are missing the point. In case of televisions, they would both be produced at high quantities so that you are comparing apples to apples, but comparing us to hot toys, and especially on the pricing, most of the cost goes to the fact that we make less than 10% of their typical runs. So, then also demanding that we deliver double on features, material and quality and extras like in your example of the televisions, is completely unreasonable, because then I would have to spend the same money twice.

As I have said many times before, I am the only company that puts 70% of what you pay so 70 cents to every dollar you pay me back into your product. That is unheard of, because in the instance of hot toys, they and their factories have to make money, but if you buy it in the USA, sideshow also has to make money so there is much less money left to put into the actual product. That is the simple reason why nobody else is making these vehicles. The business model really does not make sense for the traditional collectible companies. That is why Hot Toys has already said in interviews. They will not be doing any more new large vehicles, except for some re-issues. it is also the reason that InArt has been backing down on this 2022 Batmobile project that they claimed they would make in 2022.

So, I ask you to compare apples to apples, and not apples to oranges like Jazzinc and hot toys. We are not like your TV example.

As for quality control, we have made enormous leaps. you are talking about products from 2017 with the first two examples, and if you are unhappy with your 1966, I will gladly buy it back from you for the exact price you paid for it, including shipping. our 1966 vehicle has already been made much more perfect than the actual vehicle was, and this is the limit to what we can do. If there were scratches in there that we suggest you buff out with wax, then they were tiny polishing scratches indeed. I know this, because I review all these Customer Support questions personally. Right now, our issues are below one percent since 2023, which is lower than the industry standard


Again, if you are unhappy, I will offer you a full refund, including shipping.

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We need more companies like you in this hobby. Or at least, companies that have their people talk to us like you do.

BigWayne said:

For future reference, if you have another "defect" with a product you don't own, feel free to keep it to yourself.

I'm probably the only person here that has bothered to read your posts in their entirety, and also actually reviewed the videos you referenced. Not only did you fail miserably to even remotely articulate an actual problem, but you've attacked both supporting members and forum sponsors in the process. And I'm arrogant? Perhaps you should invest in a mirror. Maybe even crack open your wallet for $2/month so the rest of us aren't footing the bill for your "freedom of expression".

We should all step back for a moment and recognize that you're obviously entitled to all the deflection and name calling you care to engage in because, after all, it isn't easy being the perpetual victim. My apologies for not recognizing that earlier, but it's pretty clear now.

Best of luck to you finding a quality 1989 batmobile when you cancel your preorder because it has a real suspension. That is, of course, assuming you really have one on order.

/trollHasBeenFed

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Well said, you must be proud of yourself and your classy eloquency.
I see that this mirror you are talking about is your favorite friend, since only a smug person could articulate a post like this.

nathan.never said:

Thank you for giving your answer.

If I was that much unhappy with the products I purchased, I would have returned them already. But does the fact that I kept them, despite the problems I found ban me from mentioning these problems?

Everybody in this thread is so sensitive to any form of critisism, it is unbeliveable, like a cult...

And to think that probably most don't even own half of your products as I do, dating back to 2016... Ok, I do not own 2022, never said I did, never wanted it since the movie and the vehicle are not important to me, but I do own 6 other your products, and have spent around 5000$ buying from you. If that is not enough that I make some obesrvations about problems, then I am truly sorry and take everything back. Is the praise the only form of feedback we are allowed?

Everything I said about my problems with Falcon cockpit, Landspeeder and 1966 is 100% true and objectafiable. Even you admitted this when I corresponded with you, even though I found your solutions to these problems lacking since they amounted to making repairs myself including repainting certain parts on my own. You never once offered to take these products back, only just now when these were made public. To be completely honest, I myself never requested from you to take them back, because I supported you and had understanding for problems that can happen when you are starting this enormous projects.

But this kind of attack I myself have experienced in this thread, either from you or others of your followers makes me rethink if my credit and good faith was warranted.

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So…everyone disagrees with you and points out errors in your arguments and your “proof”. Joost even chimes in with a well written response. But yet we are a cult and Joost is a bad guy for offering to buyback what you perceive is a flawed product.

You want to discount our opinions and facts given by Joost and others but accept yours with no debate or opposition. But yet we are a cult and Joost is a bad guy.

Big Wayne is right. You really need to invest in a mirror so you can realize what you are blaming and claiming everyone else is, is actually you.

Kebron said:

So…everyone disagrees with you and points out errors in your arguments and your “proof”. Joost even chimes in with a well written response. But yet we are a cult and Joost is a bad guy for offering to buyback what you perceive is a flawed product.

You want to discount our opinions and facts given by Joost and others but accept yours with no debate or opposition. But yet we are a cult and Joost is a bad guy.

Big Wayne is right. You really need to invest in a mirror so you can realize what you are blaming and claiming everyone else is, is actually you.

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You are right, I take everything back. Take care...

nathan.never said:

Well said, you must be proud of yourself and your classy eloquency.
I see that this mirror you are talking about is your favorite friend, since only a smug person could articulate a post like this.

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Does this mean you don't want to hangout?