Somehow Rey Returned

Wor-Gar said:

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Wait. Is that Mozart (Tom Hulce)? What movie is this?

And equity should get people in the door. But yeah, merit should get the job.

They are putting effort into trying to diversify who they have subjectively been hiring to have these roles since the beginning of time. The bias is to primarily choose X, some of them are saying 'we realized we were doing that, and have to try to consciously occasionally do something different.' They talk about this as positive in the sense that, we had a whole bunch of people equally talented, and our bias lead us to typically choose white guy- that was not fair due to bias. Now we are going out of our way to not do that. The headlines that keep coming across the table aren't- WOMEN ARE OUTNUMBERING MEN DIRECTORS, it's, FIRST FEMALE TO DO THIS. Such a bizarre thing to overreact to. If you are primarily just getting annoyed at interviews, I don't know what to tell you lol.

Awards are not even worth discussing since there is so much nuance, and it seems the average person doesn't care what 'critics' think, or what those snobs vote to win awards the average joe doesn't care about. So awards is out

The box office for all films is going down as audience preferences are changing- too expensive, in home tv equipment improving, etc. Many movies that don't have a sniff of anything 'woke' are also failing. The industry as a whole is floundering due to a number of variables.

As you said - you can't say the quality of movies is declining because that's completely subjective and people could completely disagree.

I'm trying to see where you are making any compelling points.

batmanfan23 said:

I'm trying to see where you are making any compelling points.

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I'm trying to see who you are specifically responding to.

pixletwin said:

Wait. Is that Mozart (Tom Hulce)? What movie is this?

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jaztermareal said:

You filthy far right misogynist! Shame! Shaaame!!!!!!
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But I didn't even say anyth... Oh, you were talking to Dave. My bad...

Rui Ram said:

You’re muddying the waters. Accommodating people to live their lives more fully is not the same as hiring someone based primarily on certain characteristics, especially if there are better candidates.

And even accommodating people has it‘s limits. It doesn’t make sense nor is it feasible to add wheelchair ramps everywhere.

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Actually its the law just about everywhere in this country...


And let be frank, women, and non-white people HAVE been systematically left out of film making and /or pigeon holed to respective and repetitive roles.

This has only changed in a major way fairly recently.

Now here is the rub. Those marginalized people have in many cases WAY different views from the regular status quo. And that upsets people...

Now her views are pretty controversial, but I assure you, she is not the only person who feels this way. Mad Max Fury Road has multiple instances if saying men suck flat out.

But since a white famous and loved director said it in a good film, the masses who disagree were "mostly" forgiving. Altough a case can be made to prove those that dosagree with that opinons already crapping on Furiosa for similar reasons.

I would suggest as a film goer, if these kind of opinions upset a moral position , don't see the film.

But lets not pretend the backlash to this really would go any other way from a male fanbase due to the opiniom being contrary to the established norms.

It was always going to be a version of "how dare she say she wants to make a female oriented SW film that may piss off certain people....

Rui Ram said:

They are actively filling roles based primarily on gender/race/sexual preference. They have changed the rules for film awards based on these criteria. They are voraciously bragging about these things being good while making worse & worse films (granted “worse” is subjective but the box office metric would correlate with this).

The above is the current status quo.

I’ll concede that there may have never been a perfect meritocracy before but it was certainly better than what they’re doing now.

”do not make the good the enemy of the perfect”

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yeah , they are, and that has nothing to do with if the film is great.

Look up a little film called "Look who is coming to dinner"

Wouldn’t be surprised if daisy ridley just says “nah” after that interview lol

Everyone responded to the announcement that Debra Chow (a woman AND Asian) would be directing Obi-Wan with thunderous applause.

Why? Because her Mando episodes absolutely kicked ass and her public statements were literally "I don't want to be thought of as an Asian director or a female director, just a director who tells great stories."

And everyone was so on board. Sure the show ended up sucking but who could have foreseen that based on her prior work.

So the claim that any announcement that a woman directing Star Wars would receive a "backlash" is total BS. The backlash is because this one has openly stated that she enjoys making men feel uncomfortable and that she'll keep making them uncomfortable until they "change their attitudes." Yeah, good luck with getting anyone to pay money to watch your little lecture.

ironwez20 said:

Wouldn’t be surprised if daisy ridley just says “nah” after that interview lol

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That interview is 9 years old apparantly. If she didn't know about it before I bet she does now.

Disney love losing money.
I couldn't careless at this point, all i can do it laugh at they failed projects.

Reading the recent comments I think there was a lot of confusion over equity and equality.

Equality is is equality of opportunity (putting ramps for disabled for example so everyone can equally have the opportunity to access a building) equity is equality of outcome (everyone gets a gold medal no matter how well they played or a company having equal numbers of all subgroups on a board no matter the demographic makeup of the population. Imagine a Japanese car company in Japan having equal numbers of Asian, white, black, brown, male, female, gay, straight, disabled, trans etc etc etc on their board. It is an unreasonably unrealistic goal that would not improve their product).


Equality is good and gives us equal rights and leveling of playing fields.


Equity is a Utopian ideal that necessitates some people be oppressed/marginalized in order to achieve equal outcome.


Utopian thinking always brings dystopias. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.


Disney (and much of wider current culture) is trying to achieve equity at the expense of equality. This also affects the quality of the products they produce as their priorities are shifted to unimportant factors (what bits do you have between your legs or who do you do in bed in your private time) and away from important factors (are you a good writer? Are you capable of helming a big budget action movie? Does your prior work show you possess the skills needed for this role).


Most of the backlash against woke in Hollywood is more a backlash against poor quality (resulting from equity moves) and divisive messaging (the propaganda used to justify the equity drive that discards equality).

jaztermareal said:

Equality is is equality of opportunity (putting ramps for diasabled for example so everyone can equally access a building) equity is equality of outcome (everyone gets a gold medal no matter how well they played).

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Going off the standard definitions and not some left vs right political deviations, the way I was using those terms is basically equality means wheelchair people should have some form of access (everyone gets treated the same) and the equity means they get their own ramp (they get specific needs met to give them that access).

I disagree with quotas and ratio fixing. There shouldn't be an equal amount of people in wheelchairs coming through the door and any able bodied people aren't allowed in if there are too many of them. For the most part, the ramps are in place, but they're not everywhere and more can be done. What you do when you get up the ramp is all on you.

Dave_W said:

Going off the standard definitions and not some left vs right political deviations, the way I was using those terms is basically equality means wheelchair people should have some form of access (everyone gets treated the same) and the equity means they get their own ramp (they get specific needs met to give them that access).

I disagree with quotas and ratio fixing. There shouldn't be an equal amount of people in wheelchairs coming through the door and any able bodied people aren't allowed in if there are too many of them. For the most part, the ramps are in place, but they're not everywhere and more can be done. What you do when you get up the ramp is all on you.

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then really you are for equality not equity, which makes you sane. your definitions of the words was off. Lack of ramps for disabled folk goes against equality as it denies opportunity. Giving a ramp does not ensure equal outcome as what they do in the building is up to them. (and it is up to them if they want to enter the building. If it is a running shoes store less wheelchair users will enter naturally, an unequal outcome in and of itself)

I honestly believe we'll hear news that she's no longer going forward with directing this film. Disney will surly have to find someone else at this point imo. I mean, I understand sending THE MESSAGE but I'm pretty sure she went way too far with it publicly.

Her statements were essentially public sexist remarks and it looks like Disney is backing her and her statements. So yeah, I think she'll be replaced for this position soon.

Disney probably wanted her woke level at about 6 and she came blazing through at about a level 12 lol

Edit: Or maybe not. That interview is nearly a decade old. So I guess this is a nothing burger in terms of the effects it will have on Disney currently but who knows.

jaztermareal said:

then you are for equality not equity, which makes you sane

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I'm for both though. Equality is about treating people the same. You can't treat people all the same. Not everyone is in the same situation. Some people need help more than others to get through life. This goes out to a much more broader issue though. In the film industry maybe I am just for equality. I don't know a lot about what goes on behind the scenes so I don't know how bad it is.

I do know that no one is complaining KK made them go down on her for a role though

Here is my take on this



I have great respect for this director for tackling multiple difficult projects which told the story of how women suffer under sharia law.



Here are my two problems with her recent statement on Star Wars.

1. As it is has been so eloquently explained by Dave W and a-dev already her announcement of empowerment was grossly premature and could lead to actually hurting women empowerment instead of helping build it!
2. She diminished her previous impressive and important accomplishments by now comparing her new vision for SW as being more inspiring and important for women than her movies on giving voices to women being raped and murdered, wut!

I guarantee you won’t find one conservative in this forum who would not congratulate and applaud her accomplishments in shining a light on the suffering women experience under sharia law, as an arab/portugese myself congrats on that!



But congrats are also in order for you winning the short bus award for instantly losing your audience by following KK down that rabbit hole of forced stupidity agenda than actually trying to make a great movie especially before you even started shooting the damn thing!



Here is my message to that barista Kathleen Kennedy, I can’t wait for my 4K Godzilla Minus One movie!

For those who dont understand the difference between the two:

pixletwin said:

For those who dont understand the difference between the two:

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And what they should do is get rid of the fence all together. That's an unrealistic eutopia though...in some cases.

MrAwesome421 said:

Her statements were essentially public sexist remarks and it looks like Disney is backing her and her statements. So yeah, I think she'll be replaced for this position soon.

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I don't think Disney feels like they *can* fire her because of the diversity boxes that she checks. Because then they risk backlash from their own side screaming at them for caving to misogynistic trolls or what have you. So they'll probably stay the course and just eat another "The Marvels" loss, otherwise their only other option will just be to "delay" the movie forever like they're doing with the Rian Johnson trilogy.