1/6 Hot Toys - BvS: Dawn of Justice - Batman

[SilverStar17]

The conversation that Alfred has with Bruce at the beginning seems to indicate that his brutality, branding criminals
and reckless indifference to collateral damage is a recent shift. Perhaps the reason why many of this rogues are still
alive is because there hasn't been an opportunity to kill them since then.

Exactly, it's all clear in the film.
After 20 years as Batman, the losses and feeling that he failed to make a difference have turned him into a darker man.
The arrival of Superman and destruction in Metropolis further increased his feeling of powerlessness and pushed him over the edge.
After his fight with Superman he is back from the brink, he does NOT brand Luthor at the end of the movie.

 

[gaunted]

Ah thank goodness lol. Yeah your exactly right. The tone of the new movies being serious carries weight with it, so unfortunately character motivations and plot matter way more.

I would say most of the kills were in the beginning chase scene. He directly tears a guy in half with his machine gun and smashes cars and ploughs right through them blowing em up. He also tears a guys face off when he drives through the truck.

I remember throwing my hands up in the air watching it, as well as a few others. What the heck was Snyder thinking?? Even in his defence makes no sense. "Murder by proxy" are you kidding? He directly murders them


The intensity of the fight scene was great though knowing he was fighting for Martha's life

I could argue that the people in the car that was dragged and the car it landed on could have survived... perhaps they didnt want to, but they could survived all that, there was no explosion to confirm the kills
The dude he shreds was firing the heavy machine gun, so that's 1 + 1 driver minimum there lol
one car crashes into a truck, that's not on Bats IMO
and the dude whose face got taken off.... may have survived? hahaha
I'm stretching, yeah, but this is a Batman who's trying to save a PLANET and the future of mankind, what's a handful of ruthless, bloodthirsty mercenaries?

During the Martha fight though, there's 3 cars that blow up from the Batplane's guns, the dude who tries to grab the grenade and his buddy, and KGBeast and the guy whose gun Batman used to shoot the tank on KGBeast

 

[gaunted]

I'm curious, to those who have no problem with the kills and guns would you prefer Batman add guns to his arsenal or is that too much? And I'm not talking about the punisher with a mask, but he would use them like a police officer does. I wouldn't want him to use guns, because I think it adds another level of crazy to him but I wonder what other people see Batman as.

I like him without guns, prefer him for sure, but Thomas Wayne's Batman with the guns is pretty damn badass
I lean on Batman not killing people because it's HARDER TO DO.
But... if you have a mercenary with a machine gun just blasting away on a street... sometimes you just gotta shred right through them.
Could Snyder have put a canon on the Batmobile that could neutralize a vehicle/enemy without obliterating it... probably.... but he didn't... and I don't really mind.


But legit, a canon that covers a vehicle in that same stuff that's in Demolition Man... the foam... that would have been a smart way to not kill anyone in the movie and still get **** done.

Don't mind me, just contradicting myself over here

 

[dario2739]

During the Martha fight though, there's 3 cars that blow up from the Batplane's guns, the dude who tries to grab the grenade and his buddy, and KGBeast and the guy whose gun Batman used to shoot the tank on KGBeast

The cars that blow up - you can't see occupants and I remember two, maybe three mercs nearby (including the one with the gun). The guy who goes for the grenade - blaming Batman for his death is really stretching things. The guy who's gun he uses to shoot the tank is not necessarily dead, and neither is KGBeast - we know from the comics he's disfgured enough to have a gun for an arm!

 

[jespernicolaj]

I just saw the start of Avengers - they kill everyone. Even Cap A kills.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

I just saw the start of Avengers - they kill everyone. Even Cap A kills.

Oh yes he does. Quite the double standard for some peops that take issue with the so called dc movie murderverse

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uI35cmrdzI

 

[EVILFACE]

I just saw the start of Avengers - they kill everyone. Even Cap A kills.

But it's uncalled for to use bad language.

 

[The Clown Prince]

its the age of the murderous heroes, I think they murder more than the bad guys on the way to stopping him/her. Its like a cop causing thousands of dollars in damages and endangers life to stop a criminal whose act maybe amount to 30% of that but if there is even a 1% chance he will do something evil its worth it, lmao fun times I love the age of superhero movies.

 

[dario2739]

But it's uncalled for to use bad language.

The funny thing is that when Cap says that in AoU, they obviously forgot that he swears in Avengers Assemble, so the joke didn't work for me!
Also, watch AoU they kill dozens in the first 10mins. Guess only DC characters are not allowed to kill!

 

[dario2739]

After watching BvS again, re the car that the Batmobile sends flying onto the portakabin roof – in that scene you see a car with 4 mercs start shooting at the Batmobile - that car then speeds off and the Batmobile hits a stationery car behind that one. The car doesn't move away with the others so it's not certain there are any people in it anyway. Add to that there is a chance any occupants could have climbed out "A-Team style" before Batman grapels it.

Personally I don't want a Batman that kills - purposely, directly kills. I didn't mind the thug with the grenade scene, as that isn't caused by Batman really, and there is little he could have done whilst being attacked by 3/4 highly trained soldiers.

Also, as others have mentioned - it's the hypocrisy that gets me. It seems a lot of people delight in bashing BvS, yet Burton and Nolan's Batmen killed as many (Burton's more ruthlessly and needlessly), and MCU heroes are seemingly allowed to kill as many as they want without question. I have only ever read early Ditko Spiderman and the Punisher comics from Marvel, so maybe somebody can let me know - do Marvel characters kill as standard? Have Iron Man and Cap always killed?

 

[Sevreed]

Well, cap was a solider during world war ll so yes, he had to kill from early on. I think during his time from the avengers forward he would try not to kill but would if given no choice. Iron Man has killed from the beginning of his movie life but in the comics he would try not to if he could but it was a line he crossed if he had to. I don't think movie Batman killing is a deal breaker as long as it's in the middle of a life or death situation and it's far and few I between. It's Batman, his world is dark. The one I think people are having the most trouble with is Superman. He's just held to a higher standard by most people.

 

[MedievaL]

In the comics, in recent times, Batman has never crossed the line to kill someone. Not that I know of anyway. No matter what the villains did, no matter how tempted he was and how much he wanted to he never crossed that line. That was what separated him from and made him better than them.

It takes an extraordinary amount of willpower to uphold an ideal no matter how bad the situation got. It's easy to kill the villains and be done with them, it's not easy to repeatedly stop them without killing. That strength to uphold your ideals no matter how much beating the world and people around is giving you, that's what many people, including myself looked up and strived towards. This could probably be why many were offended at the idea of him killing. It is simply more apparent in BvS since the mood is sombre unlike the burton movies.

In 20 over years of crime fighting, he lost a lot, Robin's life, Barbara's possibly in a wheelchair, etc, and it seems "the weeds are still sprouting". These all made him disillusioned and embittered.

In TDK, Maroni said it best when he said he wasn't afraid of batman because he had limits. The joker didn't. BvS's Batman has become more violent in recent times and had taken more extreme measures. Personally, I have no issues with that portrayal in the movie. He wasn't shown to purposely kill anyone directly. All the assumed deaths were as a result of those thugs not getting out of the way. He could have been filmed to shoot KGBeast directly in the head, he wasn't. His batarang could have hit that guy in between his eyes but wasn't. He could have stabbed that guy right in the middle of his chest instead of his shoulders but he didn't.

This was definitely a more brutal Batman and I liked it. It only made him more human. Because after 20 odd years of setting out on accomplishing something but failed at it and losing a lot along the way, I'm pretty sure most of us will just be as disillusioned.


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[SilverStar17]

Me personally, I have no issues with any superhero killing if they are left with no choice while having to make a quick decision and if it is necessary to eliminate that threat to ensure the safety of others. As long as they don't take delight in doing it, I have no objections.

 

[Motuxmen]

In the comics, in recent times, Batman has never crossed the line to kill someone. Not that I know of anyway. No matter what the villains did, no matter how tempted he was and how much he wanted to he never crossed that line. That was what separated him from and made him better than them.

It takes an extraordinary amount of willpower to uphold an ideal no matter how bad the situation got. It's easy to kill the villains and be done with them, it's not easy to repeatedly stop them without killing. That strength to uphold your ideals no matter how much beating the world and people around is giving you, that's what many people, including myself looked up and strived towards. This could probably be why many were offended at the idea of him killing. It is simply more apparent in BvS since the mood is sombre unlike the burton movies.

In 20 over years of crime fighting, he lost a lot, Robin's life, Barbara's possibly in a wheelchair, etc, and it seems "the weeds are still sprouting". These all made him disillusioned and embittered.

In TDK, Maroni said it best when he said he wasn't afraid of batman because he had limits. The joker didn't. BvS's Batman has become more violent in recent times and had taken more extreme measures. Personally, I have no issues with that portrayal in the movie. He wasn't shown to purposely kill anyone directly. All the assumed deaths were as a result of those thugs not getting out of the way. He could have been filmed to shoot KGBeast directly in the head, he wasn't. His batarang could have hit that guy in between his eyes but wasn't. He could have stabbed that guy right in the middle of his chest instead of his shoulders but he didn't.

This was definitely a more brutal Batman and I liked it. It only made him more human. Because after 20 odd years of setting out on accomplishing something but failed at it and losing a lot along the way, I'm pretty sure most of us will just be as disillusioned.


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Depends on what you consider "modern" times. There are two cases where he killed in the last 20 years that stand out. Though there are others that probably resulted in deaths that where not shown.

You can use the argument that both where later retcon or ignored but that's still doesn't change they happened. And it's been in batman comics since the start. The only reason it changed originally was due to the "comic code". They had no choice but change it from his original method of killing all the time.

In the late 1980s he killed a guy (1986) by starving him to death. In 2007 he killed dozens of dudes by setting them on fire and watching them burn. Also in the 80s he killed (you can say it was an accident but for a guy who is all about perfect body control and knowing everything ten steps ahead that's hard to claim it was an accident) multiple people by tipping over stacked cars in a junkyard or other things like that.

And the 2007 All star fire thing was done by frank Miller and Jim lee so it's not like where talking about some minor artists who just had no idea about the character. The two of them have worked on the two biggest and most well know Batman story's of the last 30 years in the killing joke (Miller) and Hush (lee).

 

[MedievaL]

So that's less than 5 incidents since the change due to the comic code? Still good for a man constantly pushed to the brink, in my books

I'm sure the fans were aghast at those kills. Seeing as how movie batman will be rebooted in future, there's actually no need to "take up arms over it". Just my two cents.

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[Motuxmen]

So that's less than 5 incidents since the change due to the comic code? Still good for a man constantly pushed to the brink, in my books

I'm sure the fans were aghast at those kills. Seeing as how movie batman will be rebooted in future, there's actually no need to "take up arms over it". Just my two cents.

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No that's just five I used. I can pull out a dozen more easy. And sure, he will be rebooted. But given that he has killed in all three live action incarnations chances are he will again.

And saying well that's just five times he killed so it's ok...kinda negates that issues with him killing in one film.


This covers up through Nolan in film. Including kills in 66 era. Shows 45 times batman has killed or been responsible for a death on screen. But sure, let's act like Snyder was the first to break the rule that has been broken by pretty much every era and generation and iteration of batman not on Sunday morning cartoons.

https://www.cinemablend.com/m/new/Batman-Has-Killed-Lot-People-Screen-Here-Proof-78987.html

 

[MedievaL]

I don't have an issue with him killing in this film as mentioned earlier.


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[guyver1]

Weird that the superman came out already before this. I think the P O for both went out the same month

 

[SilverStar17]

Weird that the superman came out already before this. I think the P O for both went out the same month

I believe Superman would probably be easier to make than Batman.

 

[**16k**]

Batman should kill the bad guys. I know I would...