Aliens,Predator and Terminator Q&A (Anything!)

[Matt13]

A question for you Sabres , lets say aliens kept the same type of alien from the original how do you think Aliens would of played out with the more methodical creature?

 

[Sabres21768]

A question for you Sabres , lets say aliens kept the same type of alien from the original how do you think Aliens would of played out with the more methodical creature?

I think they definately would have brought back "egg morphing".

That and the very limited lifespan of the creature.

It would not have been the action packed shoot-em-up that Cameron came up with. But, more of the "horror story in space" that the first was.

Now, I'm not saying that I don't like "ALIENS". In fact, it's one of my favorite movies. But, it just stepped so far away from the mythos of the first, that it's hard for me to connect the two movies.

 

[Shanester]

I assumed that with all the "adjusting" to an environment that these aliens are capable of, the first alien did what it had to do to multiply and start a hive. It was alone and without a queen, so it developed as such...an asexual drone.

I'm still curious to know how they "navigate".

 

[tylerdurden]

Here's a thought, maybe the Terminator that is seen at CRS is merely the humans trying to fit all the bits back together...it doesn't work, can't be programmed or anything like that, and maybe they've had to guess a few pieces, kind of like the dinosaurs...they know what goes where and they fill in the blanks...

that's a good point. it may be an attempt to validate the stupidity of t3, but a valid point nonetheless.

as for the human skull in the original alien, i think what we're all doing is retro-fitting an explanation for it. in giger's original design, i believe he incorporated a human skull simply because it looked scary. it was all part of his "biomechanoid" design sensibility, mixing mechanical parts with organic.

not that there's anything wrong with creating retro-fitted explanations. personally, i buy into the whole "aliens adopt part of their host's genetic material" theory. makes sense to me.

 

[a-dev]

Y'know the whole human skull under the Alien's dome thing is neither here nor there to me. I never saw it in the film therefore I don't particularly care if it is omitted on toys and I don't care about in-universe explanations for it. The real reason for it was an artistic one in the designing of the creature but since its barely visible at any point in the film, if at all, and even if it is visible its not necessarily visually recogniseable as a skull only for the fact that we geeks know that it is one- it all seems fairly moot to me.

 

[A.L.I.E.N]

I'm still curious to know how they "navigate".

Well, in Alien 3 we see the view through the Aliens eyes. It seems the whole dome is a sense organ of sorts, but ofcourse Sabres is the Alien Freak here...... Im merely a Terminator Freak decible

 

[Sabres21768]

Well, in Alien 3 we see the view through the Aliens eyes. It seems the whole dome is a sense organ of sorts, but ofcourse Sabres is the Alien Freak here...... Im merely a Terminator Freak decible

Yeah, I'm the Alien freak here. I'll admit it...and I'm proud of it.

As for what is and what isn't, I can just give my personal views on Alien biology.

Everyone will have a different opinion, whether it's completely different of different by just one small detail.

I just think it's fun to hear EVERYONE'S opinion on what they think it is.

As to the Alien's "sight" in A3, I really don't like it.
I think they took too much of a short cut.
I really would have loved to see something different and actually "alien".

The "sight" of the creatures in "THE CAVE" and "PITCH BLACK" were really well done.
Something like that would have worked for me.

 

[SilentSurfer]

If I've seemed aggressive and combatant, it's just because I have my own clear image of what is happening in the Terminator mythology with Cameron's work being absolutely canon, and trying to fit everything else in in the most logical way I can make sense of it.

Some of you refuse to believe in the causaltiy time loop Cameron set up, and that's fine. I just personally don't accept that the events that lead to a Terminator and Kyle coming from 2029 to 1984 could have happened without the 1984 time incursion.

I get your point, Surfer, but how should this all start?
It just CAN´T be the same over and over again.
It has to start somewhere how is it supossed to do?
What do you think, serious and interested question...

If Kyle comes from 2029 with the basic story of how things lead up to his time travelling, and we get the rest of the details for that same timeline from the T-800 in T2, then there is no other set of circumstances or reasons that could properly lead up to Kyle leaving 2029 to come to 1984. I've been accused of making stuff up, but anything but the events Kyle knows is exactly that.

If the 1984 events didn't happen, and/or that looping timeline has been altered (which it has), then Kyle leaving 2029 to go to 1984 will not happen because all of the circumstances leading to all the decisions that lead to all the actions that lead to that event are now different, which means the outcome should be different unless some astronomical coincidences happen from T4 and on. T3 and T4 are exactly that, different sets of events, totally different from what lead to Kyle going through time, and thusly should not lead to Kyle leaving 2029 to go to 1984, at least not in the same way he told Sarah. Even if Skynet does send a Terminator to 1984 still, and Kyle does go after it, it would only be coincidence at this point if it happened from 2029, and Kyle's story would now be very different, and Kyle's former account of how things happened as he told it to Sarah in T1 will be completely irrelivent.

From the moment the Cyberdyne building was destroyed in T2, everything Kyle experienced up to 2029 on into 1984 is erased. If you change the future, you change the events of 1984.

My opinion is that the 1984 we know has to happen for Skynet to exist, for John to exist, and for the Resistance to win, but trying to alter the future was the dumbest thing they could have done, because they don't know what will happen now, and John may have taken himself or Kyle out of the picture in the future, making it all for nothing.

Agree or not, T1 set up a time loop from 2029 to 1984 to 2029, a string of events that starts with point A: Skynet sending a Terminator back in time, and ends with Point Z: Skynet sending a Terminator back in time. It is my opinion that unless this event happens, none of it happens, and all we have left is the real timeline you and I live in. Therefore, it is my opinion based on T1, that there is no first timeline that includes Skynet and John that didn't involve time incursion.

And this is officially the last time I am going to beat this dead horse. Toni, Superman, it's all yours...

 

[Superman]

Y'know the whole human skull under the Alien's dome thing is neither here nor there to me. I never saw it in the film therefore I don't particularly care if it is omitted on toys and I don't care about in-universe explanations for it. The real reason for it was an artistic one in the designing of the creature but since its barely visible at any point in the film, if at all, and even if it is visible its not necessarily visually recogniseable as a skull only for the fact that we geeks know that it is one- it all seems fairly moot to me.

The skull was visible in the theater version of the movie and will be more visible in High Def once it is released. DVD's are fuzzy and the contrast of blacks is almost always off..

 

[Sabres21768]

The skull was visible in the theater version of the movie and will be more visible in High Def once it is released. DVD's are fuzzy and the contrast of blacks is almost always off..

Yeah, I'm excited to see if the skull shows up on the blu-ray.

I'm gonna laugh my ass off at all the skull haters if it does.

 

[Superman]

If I've seemed aggressive and combatant, it's just because I have my own clear image of what is happening in the Terminator mythology with Cameron's work being absolutely canon, and trying to fit everything else in in the most logical way I can make sense of it.

Some of you refuse to believe in the causaltiy time loop Cameron set up, and that's fine. I just personally don't accept that the events that lead to a Terminator and Kyle coming from 2029 to 1984 could have happened without the 1984 time incursion.



If Kyle comes from 2029 with the basic story of how things lead up to his time travelling, and we get the rest of the details for that same timeline from the T-800 in T2, then there is no other set of circumstances or reasons that could properly lead up to Kyle leaving 2029 to come to 1984. I've been accused of making stuff up, but anything but the events Kyle knows is exactly that.

If the 1984 events didn't happen, and/or that looping timeline has been altered (which it has), then Kyle leaving 2029 to go to 1984 will not happen because all of the circumstances leading to all the decisions that lead to all the actions that lead to that event are now different, which means the outcome should be different unless some astronomical coincidences happen from T4 and on. T3 and T4 are exactly that, different sets of events, totally different from what lead to Kyle going through time, and thusly should not lead to Kyle leaving 2029 to go to 1984, at least not in the same way he told Sarah. Even if Skynet does send a Terminator to 1984 still, and Kyle does go after it, it would only be coincidence at this point if it happened from 2029, and Kyle's story would now be very different, and Kyle's former account of how things happened as he told it to Sarah in T1 will be completely irrelivent.

From the moment the Cyberdyne building was destroyed in T2, everything Kyle experienced up to 2029 on into 1984 is erased. If you change the future, you change the events of 1984.

My opinion is that the 1984 we know has to happen for Skynet to exist, for John to exist, and for the Resistance to win, but trying to alter the future was the dumbest thing they could have done, because they don't know what will happen now, and John may have taken himself or Kyle out of the picture in the future, making it all for nothing.

Agree or not, T1 set up a time loop from 2029 to 1984 to 2029, a string of events that starts with point A: Skynet sending a Terminator back in time, and ends with Point Z: Skynet sending a Terminator back in time. It is my opinion that unless this event happens, none of it happens, and all we have left is the real timeline you and I live in. Therefore, it is my opinion based on T1, that there is no first timeline that includes Skynet and John that didn't involve time incursion.

And this is officially the last time I am going to beat this dead horse. Toni, Superman, it's all yours...

If it makes sense to you in your head, then I'm glad. That must be the longest run on sentence I've ever read I understand your version of events clearly, and in your post before you eloquently explain that T1 is a love story first. I just believe you are leaving too many questions unanswered to fit a single or double timeline timeloop theory. You do try to explain that once the future changes, there is no need to go back in time and send another T800 or T1000 which basically changes or erases the past. That is why your theory does not work unless you leave out T2 T3 and T4. My timeline is simplistic enough and does incorporate all of the events from all the movies and answers the unanswered questions you and others have posed. I did read every page in this thread and all the different idea's about the timeline. So far nobody has actually made a timeline like I did which is easy to follow which is why I tried. I know it is not the best it can be, but I can build on it when I have time as I like to hear what people think. I am not trying to be a Mr. Know it all or anything, I will take everyones theories and try to understand them. We all have to remember that it is a fictional idea from a movie with multiple Directors who viewed time travel differently. As much as most of you hated T3, I kinda liked it better than Salvation and enjoyed the humor of it. I will try and use Silent Surfers love story explanation and give him credit for writing it out so well in my timeline since it fits perfectly. Thank you Surfer and others for reading my timeline and posting about it. I have enjoyed reading all of the posts in this thread as there are some heated discussions. Most of the time it is two differing theories of time travel colliding. So all have a goodnight.

 

[EndoSickness]

If I've seemed aggressive and combatant, it's just because I have my own clear image of what is happening in the Terminator mythology with Cameron's work being absolutely canon, and trying to fit everything else in in the most logical way I can make sense of it.

Some of you refuse to believe in the causaltiy time loop Cameron set up, and that's fine. I just personally don't accept that the events that lead to a Terminator and Kyle coming from 2029 to 1984 could have happened without the 1984 time incursion.



If Kyle comes from 2029 with the basic story of how things lead up to his time travelling, and we get the rest of the details for that same timeline from the T-800 in T2, then there is no other set of circumstances or reasons that could properly lead up to Kyle leaving 2029 to come to 1984. I've been accused of making stuff up, but anything but the events Kyle knows is exactly that.

If the 1984 events didn't happen, and/or that looping timeline has been altered (which it has), then Kyle leaving 2029 to go to 1984 will not happen because all of the circumstances leading to all the decisions that lead to all the actions that lead to that event are now different, which means the outcome should be different unless some astronomical coincidences happen from T4 and on. T3 and T4 are exactly that, different sets of events, totally different from what lead to Kyle going through time, and thusly should not lead to Kyle leaving 2029 to go to 1984, at least not in the same way he told Sarah. Even if Skynet does send a Terminator to 1984 still, and Kyle does go after it, it would only be coincidence at this point if it happened from 2029, and Kyle's story would now be very different, and Kyle's former account of how things happened as he told it to Sarah in T1 will be completely irrelivent.

From the moment the Cyberdyne building was destroyed in T2, everything Kyle experienced up to 2029 on into 1984 is erased. If you change the future, you change the events of 1984.

My opinion is that the 1984 we know has to happen for Skynet to exist, for John to exist, and for the Resistance to win, but trying to alter the future was the dumbest thing they could have done, because they don't know what will happen now, and John may have taken himself or Kyle out of the picture in the future, making it all for nothing.

Agree or not, T1 set up a time loop from 2029 to 1984 to 2029, a string of events that starts with point A: Skynet sending a Terminator back in time, and ends with Point Z: Skynet sending a Terminator back in time. It is my opinion that unless this event happens, none of it happens, and all we have left is the real timeline you and I live in. Therefore, it is my opinion based on T1, that there is no first timeline that includes Skynet and John that didn't involve time incursion.

And this is officially the last time I am going to beat this dead horse. Toni, Superman, it's all yours...

Sounds like you think of an alternate dimension you talk of.
So as it was the normal time, nothing would´ve happened and the T-800 and Kyle came from dystopian future, from a dimension where all this started early and therefor the "infected" our time brought skynet online interdimensional+time travel?
Would make sense, wouldn´t it, cause otherwise I DO get your point, but it just can´t start just in the future blunt with a Terminator an human being send back. There´s gotta be a first one, but it´s always Sarah´s son.
I never really thought about that moment in the car, where Kyle tells Sarah about "her unborn son".
This loop DOES go over and over again, but than still...where does it start and why?
I just converted over to your side, Surfer...but with questions and I don´t know where to start or where to untwirl that chaos

 

[Shanester]

Well, I was one of the lucky kids who got the Kenner Alien and it really accentuated the skull. I didn't actually see the movie until about 3 years later and it scared the hell outta me.

I think the skull was simply artistic design and not really a skull per se. However, it lets people assume that the Alien had eyes. When all you know is occular navigation based on light, its easy to assume all creatures function this way. Just human arrogance mixed with ignorance. This was also the 70's before the computer age came about and we all know that techs like thermal and infra-red exist.

I really appreciate the lessons here. To me, it makes the story more enjoyable (and believeable) when you understand better whats happening. The scariest thing about the Alien mythos for me is that human greed and stupidity is accurately portrayed and the extreme danger of such a creature actually making it to Earth is made evident.

 

[Superman]

After reading your description and getting that knot of synapse chaos twirled outta itself I have to agree with your theory, Supes.
There´s nothing wrong with that, it´s totally logic (as to put it in a conformity with that word^^) and is on par with mine cause there´s to be a start it just can never be a perfect loop with the same stuff and that´s what I meant when I said that little stuff does little changes but in the end overall things WILL and MUST happen.

Your description is very delicate and well thought through.
Respect.

Thanks for understanding the multiple timeline theory. The loop theory only fits T1 as a movie by itself. Once time is altered in T2, Surfer's theory goes out the window. I edited and added to the timeline below. Please read it again to see if it makes better sense.

Originally Posted by Superman:

1. First unaltered timeline before the time machine was built : Skynet takes over and becomes self aware at a later point in time than we know of in the movies. Kyle Reese (at an unknown age) gets sent back or sends himself back in order to stop Skynet creating a whole new timeline where John Connor exists.

Timeline 2: Kyle meets Sarah Connor and impregnates her while attempting to destroy Skynet. Obviously his son John is more successful in this timeline gathering a resistance prompting skynet to send back a Terminator to kill Sarah so he wouldn't be born starting a new timeline (3) however John learns of this and sends back Kyle with a picture of his mother to save her. At that point he does not know Kyle is his father. We can only guess at the ages of John and Kyle at this point, however Kyle is probably 25-30 and John would be 10 years or so older.

Timeline 3: This is what we see in Terminator 1 which leads to John surviving and speeding up the process where cyberdyne creates the T800 because of the parts found in the factory. The whole love story is still here intact but there is no loop as this T1 story only happens one time around. Skynet, losing the war once again thanks to John Connor sends back the T-1000 after the first T-800's failure. This creates timeline 4. However since that T-800 had parts left behind, it inadvertently sped up the process of Cyberdyne creating the Terminators.

Timeline 4: THe T-1000 is unsuccessful and Cyberdyne and their lead scientist are gone. However Arnold leaves behind his arm again which is found and Cyberdyne continues with the research along with the Government and skynet and judgment day occurs again. However John is successful at almost defeating the machines once more in the future. Which prompts Skynet to send back the TX in order to speed up the formation of skynet (Timeline 5) now that the internet is all around the world as opposed to the 80's and kill all of the resistance members (Colonels) they know about including John and his wife. They actually succeed in speeding things up and kill key colonels however they fail to kill John and his wife. Terminator Salvation is the continuance of this timeline...

We can assume the TX is sent back to speed things up by implanting the virus and that she also uploads all of her knowledge of the future as well in order to speed up skynets ability to make the perfect infiltrator. The TX uploaded this info either embedded into the Virus, or into the T1-2 unit she switched on. Which is why Marcus Wright was able to be revived and used in Salvation as the ultimate infiltration unit and using a more advanced endoskeleton structure. Humans are needed to perform the intricate heart and body surgery, no machine could have done that operation. In this timeline, skynet knows the other previous models T800 and T1000 as well as the TX failed in their missions. However they have to keep sending them all back to the same time in order for events to keep on occurring as they do. WHich makes me believe Skynet does not know Kyle Reese is John's father, because if they did they simply don't send the T800 back which prompts Kyle to go back allowing John to be born but the events in the first unaltered timeline get repeated since no T800 arm gets left behind. So if Skynet does know Kyle is John's father, not messing up the future may be the reason they have to keep sending back the failed Terminators to the exact moments in time knowing they will fail...

That said, there was no timeline where Skynet alone built Terminators. If Skynet itself must come from the broken chip, then Terminators originated from the Endo remains. Cyberdyne leads the way in cyber research because of those discoveries in the factory. Why would they keep the parts and never build a Terminator. Of course it would be top secret. Not even Dyson knew what all was going on.

"You know, I asked them that same question once. You know what they told me? 'Don't ask'." -Dyson

Whether the heads of Cyberdyne figured out what they had, or they wanted to make sure 'whoever built it' didn't find out they had it, they kept the originins of it, and what they were doing with it, a secret. Sarah's account of events at the factory surely made them more than paranoid, so much so that they covered it all up.

"Those lying mother____ers!" -Sarah, after hearing about it from Dyson.

So, if Cyberdyne had the remains to work from, and they had the funding, there's is no way they weren't building these humaoid robots that could be sold at premium cost for military or industrial use.

Surfer,

Having worked for the Government myself, I have to disagree with you wholeheartedly that Cyberdyne wasn't getting funded by the Government. Your theory that Cyberdyne the company was self sufficient does not fly. The group lead by " Lieutenant General Robert Brewster, USAF" which created Skynet was getting Government funds to do so. The USAF was the one getting the grants to pay Cyberdyne for their research. They made everything top secret so Dyson only knew what they wanted to tell him. So Dyson's conversation with Sarah is just him telling her what he knows, nothing else, which is not much. Cyberdyne is the key to the whole thing as Skynet is part of the puzzle. For the robots to take over, Skynet has to be turned on by humans and brought online, they cannot do it themselves. Once Skynet is brought online, the machine becomes self aware and decides humans are their only threat and must be terminated. Cyberyne models where in the system along with every other weapon the military funded for its creation. In the real world, the US Government hires companies like Lockhead Martin to make top secret aircraft. Cyberdyne is like Lockhead Martin is, nothing more. Cyberdyne scientists simply get paid thru Government grants mostly and do as they are told.

 

[SilentSurfer]

I never said Cyberdyne wasn't getting government funding. In fact, I made that point several times. What are talking about? I even quoted Kyle at one point:
"Skynet is a global defense system built for SAC-NORAD by Cyberdyne Systems." That says government funding all over it.

I just converted over to your side, Surfer...but with questions and I don´t know where to start or where to untwirl that chaos

Without beating my dead horse, I'll go on record with this theory. The timeline Kyle knows in T1 is a time loop, and it is that timeline that he comes from. If there were an ultimate beginning to everything without the 1984 time incursion, then it was something completely erased by the 1984 time incursion as though it never happened, and because of that is impossible to determine. However, since John Connor is the product of Sarah and Kyle, I submit that the original events could not have involved him. Superman's ideas are as likely as any at that point, but that is beyond what I am willing to acknowledge since the 1984 time incursion created the events I care about. What happened before is moot.

 

[Toni Plutonij]

Actually, I ain't gonna go into any more debating over timelines and loops

I agree with all your claims....

My only point, and my only stance....is.....Machines originated from Skynet.
Humans didn't create first machines, at some point in the future/past, after messing with the timeline, maybe they have..but original creator was Skynet..

The machines rose from the ashes of the nuclear fire. Their war to exterminate mankind had raged on for decades. But the final battle will not be fought in the future, it would be fought in our present...tonight.

This is the fact! Machines were originally created after the nuclear blast!

 

[EndoSickness]

Thanks for understanding the multiple timeline theory. The loop theory only fits T1 as a movie by itself. Once time is altered in T2, Surfer's theory goes out the window. I edited and added to the timeline below. Please read it again to see if it makes better sense.

I will, thx.

Without beating my dead horse, I'll go on record with this theory. The timeline Kyle knows in T1 is a time loop, and it is that timeline that he comes from. If there were an ultimate beginning to everything without the 1984 time incursion, then it was something completely erased by the 1984 time incursion as though it never happened, and because of that is impossible to determine. However, since John Connor is the product of Sarah and Kyle, I submit that the original events could not have involved him. Superman's ideas are as likely as any at that point, but that is beyond what I am willing to acknowledge since the 1984 time incursion created the events I care about. What happened before is moot.

I get it how you see the hole "mythology", but for me it´s just not enough, you know?
I´m always the guy who goes beneath the surface and wants to now, or explain for himself, or get explained where everything starts and THAT would be one more awesome thing for the mythology, don´t you think?

 

[SilentSurfer]

It's all good. Next subject...

I already think the answer to my next question is simply bad screenwriting, and there is the excuse that the T-850 was made 'tougher' in order to fight the TX, but how the heck is it able to stop the blast door from coming down so John and Kate can get inside at the end of T3, yet the 1984 T-800 got crushed in a press? Is a press that much more powerful than the door? Not only did he stop the door, but he did it with one arm. Total bull____, or is there a plausible suggestion for that? Anybody?

 

[Toni Plutonij]

It's all good. Next subject...

I already think the answer to my next question is simply bad screenwriting, and there is the excuse that the T-850 was made 'tougher' in order to fight the TX, but how the heck is it able to stop the blast door from coming down so John and Kate can get inside at the end of T3, yet the 1984 T-800 got crushed in a press? Is a press that much more powerful than the door? Not only did he stop the door, but he did it with one arm. Total bull____, or is there a plausible suggestion for that? Anybody?

That is my explanation
Same explanation to why is the Endo in Salvation so much though-er and indestructible to any other.

I haven't found any reasonable explanation to any of it..

 

[Matt13]

Not that it will count for much cause it was alot of bs writing but it would be easier to push up against the door then it would from the weight being pushed down. Also the terminator in '84 wasn't looking to stop the press only killing Sarah.