Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[JAWS]

I don't have a problem with what he wrote, I was just pointing out that he conveniently didn't write about the explanation Khev went on to make later in the same post. A sin of omission, if you will.

Buffy you need to read the quote I put after that

 

[JAWS]

Is the general consensus among F13 fans that I and IV are the "best?" I've always like II the most by a good margin, mostly due to finding the cast of doomed counselors the most likable of the bunch but then again it was also the first film in the series that I saw so I'm sure that plays a part as well. But Ginny stumbling on the Pamela shrine in the middle of the woods has always been one of the most haunting and disturbing elements of any slasher film and it really stuck with me growing up.

Part 2 is my fav also.

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

Buffy you need to read the quote I put after that

Yep, when a years long false narrative is destroyed and you are left looking like a moron just deflect by changing around words

I'm just over here on the side that was correct all along like...

 

[JAWS]

We all know about it, and we all see it. It's obvious. Nobody ever wants to admit it, but it's there.

The PT are great movies. The first question to ask: why? Why is it great? The obvious answer: George Lucas is a genius. He knows real Star Wars.

How can I take anything that you say seriously now.

Likely explanation: I know that most of you are around 44 or 45 years old. That means you got into Star Wars 40 years ago. So you never took off those rose tinted nostalgia glasses.

Dude... You know you are doing the same thing with the ST right.. I am guessing you are in your 20's?

Well I was in my 20's when the PT came out.

I see the issues with the ST and the PT... Not because I have nostalgia colored glasses.. But because I know good film making when I see it. And um.. Sorry the fact you call the PT great movies shows who has the Nostalgia colored glasses on..

But thats OK.. Good for you.. I still like The Black Hole also

And because you never took those glasses off, you try to compensate for that by diving into all-time gross and analyzing RT scores. But here's the thing: good movies don?t show up on Excel spreadsheets. The moment somebody brings up "TLJ was good? or "Rey Skywalker? I know they know nothing about Star Wars. PT being great cannot be encapsulated by one measurement. It?s the second best Star Wars trilogy ever, and one of the 5 best trilogies to ever see the screen.

Guess that depends on your definition of a trilogy... Some movies just keep going after the 3rd part.. In a way The PT does. If I was to count any film series that has t3 or more parts then nope.. Its not in the top 5.. Many film series fall apart by part 3 but the first two usually kill all the PT in terms of quality. For example.. Terminator, ALIEN, BTTF, Indiana Jones, Bourne movies, The Godfather, Toy Story, etc....

But I will give you this.. I would rather watch the PT over the Bourne films or Toy story, or even BTTF... Why? Because SW... It really is the only thing the PT and the ST have going for them.

So when I hear somebody say that the ST is better than PT, I laugh, because I know that anybody who watched the PT wouldn't think that. Unlike you guys, I have watched the PT for a significant amount of time, so I know that PT is better.

What does this argument even mean??

But a perfect example of how all the bad acting, writing, and directing can be lost on you.. You have those nostalgia colored glasses on and have become numb to the issues of the PT

You might be jealous of PTs merch sales or jealous of the fact it is quickly becoming the greatest trilogy in Star Wars history, or whatever. Unless you're a Jurassic Park fan who watched movies in the 90s, or an LOTR fan who watched movies in the 2000s, you don't know what real, fun, beloved, world building movies looks like. And there's nothing wrong with that. This forum would make you think that PT isn't even a top 100 trilogy ever.

I gotta ask again?? What do you mean? Because we are older we didn't experience world building in movies??

Or do you think we are so young that we missed the movies you movie mentioned above when released in theaters??

Seriously what does that even mean?


I do think the PT is in the top 100 trilogies ever

So don't go spouting ******** about movies you didn't watch. Talk about your "greats" like OT, but leave the PT talk to the young adults. Fair?

I saw TPM 5 times in the theaters and well over 15 on home video... AOTC and ROTS 3 times in theaters and about 10 times on home video..

Do I get to talk about them??

I liked them all with first viewings. Even though the issues were there I found enjoyment out of them. Time was not kind to the movies at all and I went through a period of strong dislike for them.. I have come to accept them for what they are.

Sorry Ducky you have done nothing except show that you have the very issue you claim others to have... A bias towards a film series that you grew up with.. Difference being.. The OT really are great films and the PT.. Not so much.

You can hate on the ST just like so many old school SW fans did on the PT..

I mean the hate placed on the PT was historical.. It shot an internet sight to fame and had a documentary made about it.. Two of the films of that PT are always at the bottom of everyone's SW rankings (I am not one of them)

And now the OT fans and PT fans are hating on the ST.. Thats cool... It may last and the ST will fade away from memory.. Or the kids of today will grow up and new fans will emerge.. And maybe they will hate on the next trilogy of films..

And don't say it cant happen.. I never would have thought that I would see someone calling the PT great films.

This made me laugh. It is essentially your core argument.

There is someone here, lurking, who thinks Goonies is the best movie ever made... because he has watched it many times.

I know right.. Weird argument from the Duck.

Damn man bravo. Yea it..... boggles my mind when someone says the ST is better than the PT. HUH? Yes the PT had stupid moments and was not done well but the ST is the most cooperate, soulless, lifeless, boring, horribly done trilofy i've seen in a long time.

No No No... Ducky said they were Great movies... No stupid moments.. And how can you say they were not done well???

They are Great movies.

Say what you will about PT and Muh anakin doesn't cry. bohoo. Yea well I didn't picture luke growing up being defeated loser who drinks from **** of a whale so i guess we both lost.
I know one thing tho, ROTS is still one of the greatest star wars movies of all time and people love it despite it's glaring flaws. ST and TLJ will forever be forgotten with a handful of fans here and there.

You may be right... Time will tell.. This thread will probably go on that long and you or I can say I told you so then

Love your ROTS. Nothing wrong with that at all.

Whats sad is the potiental was there. It could have been amazing.

100% agree with this... I think the Youtube post I put up shows how epic the films could have been.. TFA was a retread of ANH and TLJ is a PT type movie in terms of stupidity made worse by an agenda...

Somehow I like TROS.. It helps me to enjoy the ST more as a whole (TFA anyways) just like ROTS helps you like the PT more as a whole.

 

[JAWS]

Yep, when a years long false narrative is destroyed and you are left looking like a moron just deflect by changing around words

I'm just over here on the side that was correct all along like...

Dude... Its not much different then what you did to Khev.

Probably got lost on you what I was doing.

 

[JAWS]

That's what you just don't get youngling. It was not a "wrong" in *either* trilogy. So making Luke and Vader related retro-actively was an "awful decision?" Wow...

Yeah.. I am not sure what Ducky was trying to get across there..

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

Dude... Its not much different then what you did to Khev.

Probably got lost on you what I was doing.

If you can't tell the difference between a direct quote and a completely false one I can't help you. I quoted what was directly related to the matter at hand. Take the L and move on.

 

[JAWS]

If you can't tell the difference between a direct quote and a completely false one I can't help you. I quoted what was directly related to the matter at hand. Take the L and move on.

You quoted what suited your argument..

You quoted and stopped..

I did the exact same thing... I just choose to stop in the middle of a sentence.. Kind of what movie boxes use to do all the time with critic quotes.

With regards of what you did to Khev...

You either don't know what "taken out of context means" or you are being intellectually dishonest.

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

You quoted what suited your argument..

You quoted and stopped..

I did the exact same thing... I just choose to stop in the middle of a sentence.. Kind of what movie boxes use to do all the time with critic quotes.

With regards of what you did to Khev...

You either don't know what "taken out of context means" or you are being intellectually dishonest.

Since you insist on the whole long-winded post here it is. People quote parts of posts all the time to narrow down to the point.

It doesn't change Khev's insistence that the ST had a plan. It never did. Except for Kennedy's plan to infuse her agenda into Star Wars. All three movies were for all intents and purposes almost independent from one another with very rough transitions and fluidity. Kennedy is on record claiming "it's hard because no source material ". Now we have Rey Skywalker admitting that nobody knew what was going on. It was a rudderless ship which was painfully obvious to anyone looking at the sum of all parts objectively, yet some stubbornly continued to deny.


Originally Posted by Khev
Yep, Lucas has taken obvious glee in doubling down on the stupidest elements of his Saga. Who the hell in his right mind looks at the revised Han/Greedo scene and says "yeah, but how can I make it *worse*?"



It's such a misnomer to claim that the ST "had no plan." I'm surprised to see even you perpetuating that JAWS. They had a plan. They had the entire trilogy outlined with the endgame in sight before even RO hit theaters. Colin Trevorrow's script dated November or December 2016 literally proves this. And Trevorrow himself confirmed on Twitter that the Duel of the Fates script (and all accompanying concept art also completed over a full year before even TLJ hit theaters) was indeed his.

The ST had a more unified plan than *both the OT and PT.* Do you think Lucas had a script for ROTS and concept art a year before AOTC hit theaters? Hell no. Do you think that ROTJ was written in 1979? HELL NO, lol. Disney/LFL did their due diligence and planned out the entire trilogy well in advance.

And that plan was to have TFA seem familiar with Snoke in the Emperor's role and Kylo in Darth Vader's role. Everything appeared the same but they were "going backward to go forward." And the "going forward" part was the huge twist that Snoke would not be the Emperor for very long and that the Darth Vader character (Kylo) was going to reign supreme this time around. However Disney saw how divisive TLJ was with the new ideas it was leaning into and called an audible with TROS. "Ditch the original plan. Go back to the familiar that audiences loved so much in TFA." And so they did. And the trilogy feels a bit disjointed due to the "course correction" but it isn't because they were making it all up as they were going. Far from it.

But ROTJ ditched the entire plan that George had with ESB so it's in good company. And TROS did a hell of a lot better of changing things at the last second than ROTJ did as well.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Since you insist on the whole long-winded post here it is. People quote parts of posts all the time to narrow down to the point.

It doesn't change Khev's insistence that the ST had a plan. It never did. Except for Kennedy's plan to infuse her agenda into Star Wars. All three movies were for all intents and purposes almost independent from one another with very rough transitions and fluidity. Kennedy is on record claiming "it's hard because no source material ". Now we have Rey Skywalker admitting that nobody knew what was going on. It was a rudderless ship which was painfully obvious to anyone looking at the sum of all parts objectively, yet some stubbornly continued to deny.


Originally Posted by Khev
Yep, Lucas has taken obvious glee in doubling down on the stupidest elements of his Saga. Who the hell in his right mind looks at the revised Han/Greedo scene and says "yeah, but how can I make it *worse*?"



It's such a misnomer to claim that the ST "had no plan." I'm surprised to see even you perpetuating that JAWS. They had a plan. They had the entire trilogy outlined with the endgame in sight before even RO hit theaters. Colin Trevorrow's script dated November or December 2016 literally proves this. And Trevorrow himself confirmed on Twitter that the Duel of the Fates script (and all accompanying concept art also completed over a full year before even TLJ hit theaters) was indeed his.

The ST had a more unified plan than *both the OT and PT.* Do you think Lucas had a script for ROTS and concept art a year before AOTC hit theaters? Hell no. Do you think that ROTJ was written in 1979? HELL NO, lol. Disney/LFL did their due diligence and planned out the entire trilogy well in advance.

And that plan was to have TFA seem familiar with Snoke in the Emperor's role and Kylo in Darth Vader's role. Everything appeared the same but they were "going backward to go forward." And the "going forward" part was the huge twist that Snoke would not be the Emperor for very long and that the Darth Vader character (Kylo) was going to reign supreme this time around. However Disney saw how divisive TLJ was with the new ideas it was leaning into and called an audible with TROS. "Ditch the original plan. Go back to the familiar that audiences loved so much in TFA." And so they did. And the trilogy feels a bit disjointed due to the "course correction" but it isn't because they were making it all up as they were going. Far from it.

But ROTJ ditched the entire plan that George had with ESB so it's in good company. And TROS did a hell of a lot better of changing things at the last second than ROTJ did as well.

Lol i dont think khev really likes the ot as much as he says he does, otherwise he wouldn't consistently bad mouth it (or gl for that matter) in order to prop up the crap we saw that in the st. He is like the aniti-doomcock and a disney shill. Its like he forgets that without gl there would be no star wars, so keep bad mouthing brother and propping up kk and that mess of a trilogy at the creators expense. No true ot fan would ever consider blasting the ot or using its small plot holes to justify the massive inconsistencies and plot holes in the st

Jaws likes the st more specifically tros but he does not bad mouth the ot in order to defend it. Neither does jye only khev does this

 

[TheDucky]

How can I take anything that you say seriously now.



Dude... You know you are doing the same thing with the ST right.. I am guessing you are in your 20's?

Well I was in my 20's when the PT came out.

I see the issues with the ST and the PT... Not because I have nostalgia colored glasses.. But because I know good film making when I see it. And um.. Sorry the fact you call the PT great movies shows who has the Nostalgia colored glasses on..

But thats OK.. Good for you.. I still like The Black Hole also



Guess that depends on your definition of a trilogy... Some movies just keep going after the 3rd part.. In a way The PT does. If I was to count any film series that has t3 or more parts then nope.. Its not in the top 5.. Many film series fall apart by part 3 but the first two usually kill all the PT in terms of quality. For example.. Terminator, ALIEN, BTTF, Indiana Jones, Bourne movies, The Godfather, Toy Story, etc....

But I will give you this.. I would rather watch the PT over the Bourne films or Toy story, or even BTTF... Why? Because SW... It really is the only thing the PT and the ST have going for them.






What does this argument even mean??

But a perfect example of how all the bad acting, writing, and directing can be lost on you.. You have those nostalgia colored glasses on and have become numb to the issues of the PT



I gotta ask again?? What do you mean? Because we are older we didn't experience world building in movies??

Or do you think we are so young that we missed the movies you movie mentioned above when released in theaters??

Seriously what does that even mean?


I do think the PT is in the top 100 trilogies ever



I saw TPM 5 times in the theaters and well over 15 on home video... AOTC and ROTS 3 times in theaters and about 10 times on home video..

Do I get to talk about them??

I liked them all with first viewings. Even though the issues were there I found enjoyment out of them. Time was not kind to the movies at all and I went through a period of strong dislike for them.. I have come to accept them for what they are.

Sorry Ducky you have done nothing except show that you have the very issue you claim others to have... A bias towards a film series that you grew up with.. Difference being.. The OT really are great films and the PT.. Not so much.

You can hate on the ST just like so many old school SW fans did on the PT..

I mean the hate placed on the PT was historical.. It shot an internet sight to fame and had a documentary made about it.. Two of the films of that PT are always at the bottom of everyone's SW rankings (I am not one of them)

And now the OT fans and PT fans are hating on the ST.. Thats cool... It may last and the ST will fade away from memory.. Or the kids of today will grow up and new fans will emerge.. And maybe they will hate on the next trilogy of films..

And don't say it cant happen.. I never would have thought that I would see someone calling the PT great films.



I know right.. Weird argument from the Duck.



No No No... Ducky said they were Great movies... No stupid moments.. And how can you say they were not done well???

They are Great movies.



You may be right... Time will tell.. This thread will probably go on that long and you or I can say I told you so then

Love your ROTS. Nothing wrong with that at all.



100% agree with this... I think the Youtube post I put up shows how epic the films could have been.. TFA was a retread of ANH and TLJ is a PT type movie in terms of stupidity made worse by an agenda...

Somehow I like TROS.. It helps me to enjoy the ST more as a whole (TFA anyways) just like ROTS helps you like the PT more as a whole.

Read this please

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/3fyimi/regarding_the_antikobe_bias_on_this_sub/

Yeah.. I am not sure what Ducky was trying to get across there..

That not planning for a movie is bad, regardless of the outcome.

That using one trilogies inconsistencies, mistakes, etc... as justification for another trilogies inconsistencies, mistakes, etc... is stupid.

 

[TheDucky]

Lol i dont think khev really likes the ot as much as he says he does, otherwise he wouldn't consistently bad mouth it (or gl for that matter) in order to prop up the crap we saw that in the st. He is like the aniti-doomcock and a disney shill. Its like he forgets that without gl there would be no star wars, so keep bad mouthing brother and propping up kk and that mess of a trilogy at the creators expense. No true ot fan would ever consider blasting the ot or using its small plot holes to justify the massive inconsistencies and plot holes in the st

Jaws likes the st more specifically tros but he does not bad mouth the ot in order to defend it. Neither does jye only khev does this

Agreed. He always has to drag it down to justify the ST.

Those are the worst and weakest arguments that ST defenders use. They know they can’t defend the trilogy on its own merits, so they have to try to find faults in the OT/PT to drag them down to the low level of the ST.

 

[JAWS]

Since you insist on the whole long-winded post here it is. People quote parts of posts all the time to narrow down to the point.

It doesn't change Khev's insistence that the ST had a plan. It never did. Except for Kennedy's plan to infuse her agenda into Star Wars. All three movies were for all intents and purposes almost independent from one another with very rough transitions and fluidity. Kennedy is on record claiming "it's hard because no source material ". Now we have Rey Skywalker admitting that nobody knew what was going on. It was a rudderless ship which was painfully obvious to anyone looking at the sum of all parts objectively, yet some stubbornly continued to deny.


Originally Posted by Khev
Yep, Lucas has taken obvious glee in doubling down on the stupidest elements of his Saga. Who the hell in his right mind looks at the revised Han/Greedo scene and says "yeah, but how can I make it *worse*?"



It's such a misnomer to claim that the ST "had no plan." I'm surprised to see even you perpetuating that JAWS. They had a plan. They had the entire trilogy outlined with the endgame in sight before even RO hit theaters. Colin Trevorrow's script dated November or December 2016 literally proves this. And Trevorrow himself confirmed on Twitter that the Duel of the Fates script (and all accompanying concept art also completed over a full year before even TLJ hit theaters) was indeed his.

The ST had a more unified plan than *both the OT and PT.* Do you think Lucas had a script for ROTS and concept art a year before AOTC hit theaters? Hell no. Do you think that ROTJ was written in 1979? HELL NO, lol. Disney/LFL did their due diligence and planned out the entire trilogy well in advance.

And that plan was to have TFA seem familiar with Snoke in the Emperor's role and Kylo in Darth Vader's role. Everything appeared the same but they were "going backward to go forward." And the "going forward" part was the huge twist that Snoke would not be the Emperor for very long and that the Darth Vader character (Kylo) was going to reign supreme this time around. However Disney saw how divisive TLJ was with the new ideas it was leaning into and called an audible with TROS. "Ditch the original plan. Go back to the familiar that audiences loved so much in TFA." And so they did. And the trilogy feels a bit disjointed due to the "course correction" but it isn't because they were making it all up as they were going. Far from it.

But ROTJ ditched the entire plan that George had with ESB so it's in good company. And TROS did a hell of a lot better of changing things at the last second than ROTJ did as well.

I don't know.. Maybe I am interpreting it wrong... But I read Khev's original remarks dealing with fact that at one time there was a plan...

I think we all know.. Including Khev that the final outcome was not planned.

I agree that KK never had a plan and that is why she had no issues with what RJ did and why she fired CT.. There was not a producer that had an over arching plan.... But CT and Disney seemed to be planning the final film years in advance with CT and RJ even discussing ideas to connect the films.. KK had other ideas.

 

[JAWS]

Read this please

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/3fyimi/regarding_the_antikobe_bias_on_this_sub/

Damn it Duck!! Should I have known that this was a quote about Kobe

That not planning for a movie is bad, regardless of the outcome.

That using one trilogies inconsistencies, mistakes, etc... as justification for another trilogies inconsistencies, mistakes, etc... is stupid.

You have to hate the ideas though.. It might not be the best way to get there but if it works it works..

I think Khev's point is that the final outcome of the OT was good.. As unplanned as it was... And the ST for him (and me) the the final outcome was good.

So not having a plan was not the worst..

On the other hand the PT had a plan but Khev and I were not as happy with the final outcome.

I would say that The Matrix part 2 and 3 had a plan.. I wish it didnt

So I guess it just depends on what you end up liking..

I think on a whole though.. Its probably better to at least have an outline


I just got done watching this.. I watched it back when it was first made.. I wonder if subconsciously this is where I came up with Pick your Poison as he says it in the video..

I agree with so much.

I think the ST would have benefited with having JJ on the whole time for sure.. Its the one thing that the PT has over the ST IMO...

Its a fun watch if you have not seen it before.

 

[JAWS]

Lol i dont think khev really likes the ot as much as he says he does, otherwise he wouldn't consistently bad mouth it (or gl for that matter) in order to prop up the crap we saw that in the st. He is like the aniti-doomcock and a disney shill. Its like he forgets that without gl there would be no star wars, so keep bad mouthing brother and propping up kk and that mess of a trilogy at the creators expense. No true ot fan would ever consider blasting the ot or using its small plot holes to justify the massive inconsistencies and plot holes in the st

Jaws likes the st more specifically tros but he does not bad mouth the ot in order to defend it. Neither does jye only khev does this

Agreed. He always has to drag it down to justify the ST.

Those are the worst and weakest arguments that ST defenders use. They know they can’t defend the trilogy on its own merits, so they have to try to find faults in the OT/PT to drag them down to the low level of the ST.

I think that is because the ST fans (myself included) know that except for 2 SW movies the rest of them are very flawed.

We love the world of SW and the lives that live in that world. We forgive much of what is in those less then perfect films.

Even the 2 perfect films have issues that we complain about in the less then perfect films but they are so great in every other way that the issues are practically unnoticeable.

I mean people complain about the Holdo maneuver and the plot holes it creates but fully accept that the Death Star, a literal planet destroying star base, that has to fly around a planet to destroy a moon.. Rather then just destroying the planet to get to said moon

Why do we complain about one and not the other.. Because ANH is a perfectly told story with great hero's, villains, action and visuals... TLJ is... Well mostly crap but the other films in the series have their issues also.

But if the TLJ was great overall.. I have a feeling nobody would care about the Holdo Maneuver.

But for many of us we forgive the garbage in the lesser films because we love SW.

I ignore a ton in the PT and the ST not because they are great films like ANH and ESB but because they are SW films.

Taking down the PT is more due to the fact that it is many PT fans bitching about the ST.... You will note that the ST fans don't argue as much with someone like a-dev because he sees both the PT and ST as garbage... So there is not reason to bring up the PT..

But when a fan complains about all the issues of the ST while still loving on the PT.. Well that gives us the same reaction as you get thinking that there are ST fans who hate the PT while loving on the ST.


What's funny as that the ST has helped some of us (Khev, myself, not sure about Jye) come to accept the PT more.

Khev had written it off the PT.. I had was pretty much done with all of the ST and PT until TROS which let me back into the love of all things SW.

Hell Khev even binge watched the entire TCW tv series because of his newfound acceptance of the PT after the full ST release.




In all honestly I don't know why we are all arguing..

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

I think that is because the ST fans (myself included) know that except for 2 SW movies the rest of them are very flawed.

We live the world of SW and the lives that live in that world. We forgive much of what is in those less then perfect films.

Even the 2 perfect films have issues that we complain about in the less then perfect films but they are so great in every other way that the issues are practically unnoticeable.

I mean we complain about the Holdo maneuver and the plot holes it creates but fully accept that the Death Star, a literal planet destroying star base, has to fly around a planet to destroy a moon.. Rather then just destroying the planet to get to said moon

Why do we complain about one and not the other.. Because ANH is a perfectly told story with great hero's, villains, action and visuals... TLJ is... Well mostly crap

But if the film was overall great.. I have a feeling nobody would care about the Holdo Maneuver.

Taking down the PT is more due to the fact that it is many PT fans bitching about the ST.... You will note that the ST fans dont argue as much with a-dev because he sees both the PT and ST as garbage... So there is not reason to bring up the PT..

But when a fan complains about all the issues of the ST while still loving on the PT.. Well that gives us the same reaction as you get thinking that there are ST fans who hate the PT while hating on the ST.


What's funny as that the ST has helped some of us (Khev, myself, not sure about Jye) come to accept the PT more.

Khev had written it off the PT.. I had was pretty much done with all of the ST and PT until TROS which let me back into the love of all things SW.

Hell Khev even binge watched the entire TCW tv series because of his newfound acceptance of the PT after the full ST release.




In all honestly I don't know why we are all arguing..

I understand doing that with the pt but khev uses the small issues in empire and new hope to justify the problems with the st. You do not do this because nobody who likes the ot or is in their right mind would do that. New hope and empire do not even belong in the same conversation as the st

As much as you enjoy tros even you would admit this

I am glad the st got him to finally watch tcw, hopefully he watched the last 4 episode arc as well and saw how good the st could have been in the right hands

One thing i dont get is how someone could accept lightswitch rey and have problems with Pt anakin no matter how bad his decent into vader was portrayed in the pt. Had they cast adam driver (i know he wasnt around but just an example) or an actor of his caliber to play anakin the PT would have been better but GL wanted an unknown and that unknown failed him big time in atoc. His terrible acting single handily ruined the tusken raider rescue scene. That should have been goerges crowing achievement but hc was so bad at acting it came off as ****ing laughable.

 

[ironwez20]

Since you insist on the whole long-winded post here it is. People quote parts of posts all the time to narrow down to the point.

It doesn't change Khev's insistence that the ST had a plan. It never did. Except for Kennedy's plan to infuse her agenda into Star Wars. All three movies were for all intents and purposes almost independent from one another with very rough transitions and fluidity. Kennedy is on record claiming "it's hard because no source material ". Now we have Rey Skywalker admitting that nobody knew what was going on. It was a rudderless ship which was painfully obvious to anyone looking at the sum of all parts objectively, yet some stubbornly continued to deny.


Originally Posted by Khev
Yep, Lucas has taken obvious glee in doubling down on the stupidest elements of his Saga. Who the hell in his right mind looks at the revised Han/Greedo scene and says "yeah, but how can I make it *worse*?"



It's such a misnomer to claim that the ST "had no plan." I'm surprised to see even you perpetuating that JAWS. They had a plan. They had the entire trilogy outlined with the endgame in sight before even RO hit theaters. Colin Trevorrow's script dated November or December 2016 literally proves this. And Trevorrow himself confirmed on Twitter that the Duel of the Fates script (and all accompanying concept art also completed over a full year before even TLJ hit theaters) was indeed his.

The ST had a more unified plan than *both the OT and PT.* Do you think Lucas had a script for ROTS and concept art a year before AOTC hit theaters? Hell no. Do you think that ROTJ was written in 1979? HELL NO, lol. Disney/LFL did their due diligence and planned out the entire trilogy well in advance.

And that plan was to have TFA seem familiar with Snoke in the Emperor's role and Kylo in Darth Vader's role. Everything appeared the same but they were "going backward to go forward." And the "going forward" part was the huge twist that Snoke would not be the Emperor for very long and that the Darth Vader character (Kylo) was going to reign supreme this time around. However Disney saw how divisive TLJ was with the new ideas it was leaning into and called an audible with TROS. "Ditch the original plan. Go back to the familiar that audiences loved so much in TFA." And so they did. And the trilogy feels a bit disjointed due to the "course correction" but it isn't because they were making it all up as they were going. Far from it.

But ROTJ ditched the entire plan that George had with ESB so it's in good company. And TROS did a hell of a lot better of changing things at the last second than ROTJ did as well.

Damn . Got em !

 

[JAWS]

I understand doing that with the pt but khev uses the small issues in empire and new hope to justify the problems with the st. You do not do this because nobody who likes the ot or is in their right mind would do that. New hope and empire do not even belong in the same conversation as the st

As much as you enjoy tros even you would admit this

I am glad the st got him to finally watch tcw, hopefully he watched the last 4 episode arc as well and saw how good the st could have been in the right hands

Trust me on this.. Khev loves the OT.

He thought the last 4 episode arc was great.

And without question there is room for improvement in the ST.

Khev and I just dont see it as the massive failure you guys do.

Of course I watch the whole TCW series and think about how great the PT could have been



As for pointing out the flaws of the OT.. I think its just to point out that they are there. That its OK for the ST to have its issues because the OT did also.

I can promise you that Khev ranks the OT much higher then the ST. Much much higher.

As for defending the ST on its own.. I think ST fans have done that but people just dont like the answers.

I have seen very little defending of the PT on its own merits also.. I see a lot of.. Sure its a mess and full of mistakes and not very good but its better then the ST.


So we are back to where we always are.. People picking their poison.

Personally I happy to drink it all

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Trust me on this.. Khev loves the OT.

He thought the last 4 episode arc was great.

And without question there is room for improvement in the ST.

Khev and I just dont see it as the massive failure you guys do.

Of course I watch the whole TCW series and think about how great the PT could have been



As for pointing out the flaws of the OT.. I think its just to point out that they are there. That its OK for the ST to have its issues because the OT did also.

I can promise you that Khev ranks the OT much higher then the ST. Much much higher.

As for defending the ST on its own.. I think ST fans have done that but people just dont like the answers.

I have seen very little defending of the PT on its own merits also.. I see a lot of.. Sure its a mess and full of mistakes and not very good but its better then the ST.


So we are back to where we always are.. People picking their poison.

Personally I happy to drink it all

I know he says he does but why does he bad mouth it so much in order to prop up the garbage **** in the st. I know your are defending him but that point is indefensible. Like i said, I understand pointing out the issues with the pt but new hope and empire??????????? Your not really addressing my point but i understand why. Sorry to put you on the spot like Wor did with his poll lol. You cannot speak for khev but you cannot really defend what he says either when he talks crap about the ot to elevate the st. He goes to far in his defense of the st.

I like man of steel alot, but if i was to tear down superman the movie or small issues in it in order to justify some of the issues people had with man of steel people would rightfully think i was nuts. Yes superman snapped zods neck but CR supes took great pleasure in crushing zods hand and throwing him to his death in superman 2. Man of steel supes took no pleasure in killing zod there was no smiling from him. Yet One of them caused outrage the other didnt and its not the one you think would

 

[JAWS]

I know he says he does but why does he bad mouth it so much in order to prop up the garbage **** in the st. I know your are defending him but that point is indefensible. Like i said, I understand pointing out the issues with the pt but new hope and empire??????????? Your not really addressing my point but i understand why. Sorry to put you on the spot like Wor did with his poll lol. You cannot speak for khev but you cannot really defend what he says either when he talks crap about the ot to elevate the st. He goes to far in his defense of the st

Forgive me... I am pushing 50... What poll??

As for Khev.. He know the OT are great. I don't recall him saying anything that bad. Guess I will have to go back and read if any of his OT comments are all that criminal



Never mind.. I found the poll... I don't have any issue with that poll.

I think its obvious that the end result of the ST showed that if there was a plan.. They did not follow it.