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lcummins

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Looking back over my years of collecting, I have witnessed a disturbing trend in the collectibles hobby. It began with baseball cards. Rookie cards were promoted as rare and highly collectible while all the time they were being printed in the millions, usually at multiple rates of the normal base cards. Then manufacturers began using “chase” cards to promote pack and box sales. They would artificially create rarities, to produce a “buzz” for their product and spur after-market sales. Finally, card grading and slabbing took hold, and a mint condition card that was slabbed, could fetch magnitudes more that the same un-graded mint card. Result, the bottom fell out of the baseball card market. While prices on older material continued to climb, newer material from the 80’s onward hit new lows and rookie cards that once fetched thousands dropped to hundreds or below. Many baseball card collectors called it quits and departed because the hobby wasn’t fun anymore. The hobby is still recovering to this day.

Move on to comic books, and the same trends developed. Number one issues and origin issues were the “rookie cards” of comics. The manufacturers began producing rarities by issuing comics with multiple covers, some being printed in much lower rates than the others. Then, because number one issues didn’t occur that often, they developed ways to create them artificially by revamping characters and starting titles over, creating the mini-series in comics (although that may have been a good thing), and just plain releasing new titles as fast as possible. And of course, grading entered the hobby as in baseball cards. Predictably, collectors left the hobby because they could no longer afford to just read their favorite comics. The bubble burst and comics reached a low point they had not seen since the early 70’s when comics almost died out completely. The comics industry has been recovering and the advent of trade paperback collections have brought the readers back into the hobby.

Finally, let’s look at non-sport cards (also known as bubble gum cards or entertainment cards). Without rookie cards to promote a set, the manufacturers started short-printing certain cards to create rarities that would be sought after. Because this practice was frowned upon by collectors, the manufacturers quickly moved to chase cards to help promote pack and box sales. They quickly developed autograph cards, memorabilia cards, and the like to keep collectors searching and buying. Of course, the dealers were the ones making the money because they could afford to buy cases of product, break down the boxes, sell the chase cards for small fortunes, and dump the base card sets for a few dollars as extra income. And of course, as you would expect, grading is finally entering this hobby as well. By the early 90’s, there were almost 500 companies producing non-sport trading cards. By the end of the 90’s, almost all of those companies were gone, as well as a couple of the major players in the industry. Collectors gave up trying to finish sets and left because the chase cards were so limited, most could not afford to even try. The hobby hasn’t been the same since, and appears to be in its death throes, but will likely rebound as the other hobbies mentioned above have done.

So, let us examine the field of collectible figures and statues. This hobby is still in its infancy compared to most other hobbies, yet the industry players are following the same footsteps each of the aforementioned hobbies have walked. We are beginning to see more and more “exclusive” product which is the equivalent of the rookie card, number one issue, and chase card that helped drive collectors away from other hobbies. Grading is trying to gain market acceptance but is not making as much ground as the previous hobbies. And just as in the other hobbies, the products continue to get more extravagant and expensive. If these trends continue, and history says they will, it is only a matter of time before collectors get disillusioned and abandon this hobby for greener pastures. This is how I see the current state of the industry.

How do you see things? Let’s discuss…
 
I can't argue with your observations at all. My first collecting began in baseball cards and I was one of the many who unltimately got disillusioned and called it quits. Dabble a bit in comics, again giving up because of the increasing varients.

Having started collecting sets with baseball cards, I have always had the mindset of having the complete set/collection. Got very disappointed in trying to accomplish this with GG and to a degree with MR.

I've been trying to retrain my collecting habits and have broken the desire to have it all before my wife got the desire to break me :lol

Still it is very discouraging at times and I like you am very concerned were we are going to end up. My tastes continue to be drawn to higher and higher end items. I have always affirmed that I collect the things I like regardless of value, I mean this is collecting not investing.

But it can still be very discouraging and disheartening to see items you felt very glad and lucky to be able to preorder at retail or slightly below end up selling for half or even less mear months down the road. Granted we've not seen huge examples of this lately, but this can only be a matter of time.

Granted for those like me who collect instead of invest, you may not necessarily be looking for a huge increase in value, but at the very least you want your collectibles to hold their original value.
 
oxbeard said:
I can't argue with your observations at all. My first collecting began in baseball cards and I was one of the many who unltimately got disillusioned and called it quits. Dabble a bit in comics, again giving up because of the increasing varients.

Having started collecting sets with baseball cards, I have always had the mindset of having the complete set/collection. Got very disappointed in trying to accomplish this with GG and to a degree with MR.

I've been trying to retrain my collecting habits and have broken the desire to have it all before my wife got the desire to break me :lol

Still it is very discouraging at times and I like you am very concerned were we are going to end up. My tastes continue to be drawn to higher and higher end items. I have always affirmed that I collect the things I like regardless of value, I mean this is collecting not investing.

But it can still be very discouraging and disheartening to see items you felt very glad and lucky to be able to preorder at retail or slightly below end up selling for half or even less mear months down the road. Granted we've not seen huge examples of this lately, but this can only be a matter of time.

Granted for those like me who collect instead of invest, you may not necessarily be looking for a huge increase in value, but at the very least you want your collectibles to hold their original value.

Absolutely agree! I have been selling my non-sport collection to help fund my Sideshow collection and it is really discouraging to have to sell items for $50 or $75 that sold for $200 or $300 just a few years ago. All I've ever wanted was to least get my money back if I had to sell something. I had never sold much from my collection before deciding to liquidate the non-sports collection, so I was a bit surprised how far the bottom had gone. I too collect for the joy of it, so the value doesn't really affect me that much, but I think everyone wants their items to at least retain the value they paid.

Good start to the discussion Ox! :chew
 
I know exactly where you are coming from with the sports cards. I stopped collecting when all the companies started releasing the high end sets like topps finest. by the time grading came around I was long gone from the hobby, but I still have most of my cards that are basically worthless because they are ungraded and I am not going to pay to have a card graded and have it still not be worth anything because it didn't get a high enough grade. I remember about 10 years ago there were tons of sports card shops where I live, now not so much.
 
Bannister said:
I know exactly where you are coming from with the sports cards. I stopped collecting when all the companies started releasing the high end sets like topps finest. by the time grading came around I was long gone from the hobby, but I still have most of my cards that are basically worthless because they are ungraded and I am not going to pay to have a card graded and have it still not be worth anything because it didn't get a high enough grade. I remember about 10 years ago there were tons of sports card shops where I live, now not so much.

In the 80's and early 90's, there were comic shops, baseball card shops and even non-sport card shops everywhere. Now, except for the larger cities, most places are lucky to have even one collectibles shop!
 
.. the bottom will fall out ... its inevitable.
thats the main reason I only buy what I really and truely plan to never sell. (not saying I wont change my mind later though)

having found a new hobby/passion in sculpting, I purchase these peices for more reasons than collecting. and I would be fine with the $$$ value of everything ive bought plummeting .... but God I hope it doesnt :monkey1

... and like many here, I started in Football Cards (yes football, not a baseball fan :D ) then quickly moved to comics and have been through the fall of each. I still have my 15+, bagged w/chase cards copies of X-Force#1 just to remind not to get caught up in that or any other frenzy again.
 
lcummins said:
In the 80's and early 90's, there were comic shops, baseball card shops and even non-sport card shops everywhere. Now, except for the larger cities, most places are lucky to have even one collectibles shop!
the internet is also a HUGE slayer of the local shops. I really miss them, but with the world being our shopping grounds now, thats just the way it is
 
occulum said:
...I still have my 15+, bagged w/chase cards copies of X-Force#1 just to remind not to get caught up in that or any other frenzy again.

Hey! I still have some of those too!!! :rotfl
 
occulum said:
the internet is also a HUGE slayer of the local shops. I really miss them, but with the world being our shopping grounds now, thats just the way it is

That being said - I've never had much locally - without the internet I wouldn't have much of a collection at all - and probably would never have started as I found Sideshow through the internet. I think the net has removed the "local" but gives those same businesses access to a world wide market.

I regularly buy stuff from both Hong Kong, the US and the UK as there are no local suppliers. I doubt there is probably enough local demand to make it worthwhile for anything other than the real mainstream lines like Buffy - which is then reflected in the secondary market for those figures.

Bottom line - as long as you are just collecting for the sake of having the figures you won't lose. Its when you start to buy things as "investments" that it all goes screwy. Like most of those hobbies you mentioned - until people started buying things cos they were extremely limited and worth heaps the market was fine. End of the day market prices will be driven by how many collectors actually want the product - speculators end up artificially spiking demand in the medium term as manufacturers increase production to cater to how many they can sell- which in turn eventually results in a decrease in price when those figures are eventually released to the market.
 
I dont know that it is the changing industry that bottoms out the hobby, but the fickle fans who "jump" aboard...There is still a market for sports cards and the same with comics, however they have become much smaller, as the "bandwagon" collectors have moved on...And once the bandwagon has moved on, so do the scalpers, thus "bottoming out" the hobby...I know that many local comic shops surged in the early 90's with the new X-Men line, Spiderman and X-Force comics, but once the "shine" wore off they lost many customers...Now they are kept on life support by many loyal customers....Like one recently told me, "If it wasnt for the same bunch of guys that have been buying from me for years I would go out of business"....

Same goes for the "new" statue, figure, bust collecting community that has exploded in the last five or so years...It will stay strong as long as the bandwagon sticks around....With the high demand from those who 5 years ago didnt collect and the scalpers moveing the products to those who think they "need" them, the market is fresh....But eventually, those who jumped aboard when it was hot will move on and the market will slow and values will goe down...For those here to stay they will continue collecting like they have always done...

Same can be said for many many things....About 15 years ago you couldt walk down my street and not see 50 kids on skateboards, now you mught see 20...Though the freshness has worn aff and all the bandwagoners are gone the loyal skaters are still there...

Its the fickled collectors who see something gaining popularity jump on board and send 2nd market values through the roof...but once they get tired and move on the values will go down leaving the rest us us to our collecting....It WILL happen and those collecting for investments will loose and those collecting for the love of having a kick ass vintage 12" Sideshow Jason Part 3 on their shelves will win...
 
LordAzrael said:
Bottom line - as long as you are just collecting for the sake of having the figures you won't lose. Its when you start to buy things as "investments" that it all goes screwy.
you readin that Cummins? now give that Bronze Bernie Frank up cheap to someone who really wants one to COLLECT. Not to just put on boards screaming "nah nah, nahnah nah ... you don't haaave one" :lol
 
King Darkness said:
I dont know that it is the changing industry that bottoms out the hobby, but the fickle fans who "jump" aboard...There is still a market for sports cards and the same with comics, however they have become much smaller, as the "bandwagon" collectors have moved on...And once the bandwagon has moved on, so do the scalpers, thus "bottoming out" the hobby...I know that many local comic shops surged in the early 90's with the new X-Men line, Spiderman and X-Force comics, but once the "shine" wore off they lost many customers...Now they are kept on life support by many loyal customers....Like one recently told me, "If it wasnt for the same bunch of guys that have been buying from me for years I would go out of business"....

Same goes for the "new" statue, figure, bust collecting community that has exploded in the last five or so years...It will stay strong as long as the bandwagon sticks around....With the high demand from those who 5 years ago didnt collect and the scalpers moveing the products to those who think they "need" them, the market is fresh....But eventually, those who jumped aboard when it was hot will move on and the market will slow and values will goe down...For those here to stay they will continue collecting like they have always done...

Same can be said for many many things....About 15 years ago you couldt walk down my street and not see 50 kids on skateboards, now you mught see 20...Though the freshness has worn aff and all the bandwagoners are gone the loyal skaters are still there...

Its the fickled collectors who see something gaining popularity jump on board and send 2nd market values through the roof...but once they get tired and move on the values will go down leaving the rest us us to our collecting....It WILL happen and those collecting for investments will loose and those collecting for the love of having a kick ass vintage 12" Sideshow Jason Part 3 on their shelves will win...

Well stated! For example, I predicted a couple of years ago that the SS/W LOTR line would lose a lot of collectors after the movies had finished and they began to move on! I believe that is what we are now seeing with the prices being down. Soon, the diehard collectors will begin to purchase the missing pieces that were too expensive and the prices will reflect a "true" market value of what collectors will pay.
 
occulum said:
you readin that Cummins? now give that Bronze Bernie Frank up cheap to someone who really wants one to COLLECT. Not to just put on boards screaming "nah nah, nahnah nah ... you don't haaave one" :lol

. :rotfl Oh, that bust will be one of the last things to leave my collection unless I fall on very hard times!!!! :D
 
lcummins said:
Well stated! For example, I predicted a couple of years ago that the SS/W LOTR line would lose a lot of collectors after the movies had finished and they began to move on! I believe that is what we are now seeing with the prices being down. Soon, the diehard collectors will begin to purchase the missing pieces that were too expensive and the prices will reflect a "true" market value of what collectors will pay.


You are 100% right with the SSW LOTR line....The hype from the movies shot the prices through the roof, and now they are starting to reflect a more accuracte market value....Same will be said about many high priced items right now...I would be willing to bet Patient Zero won't be selling for $300 in about 5 years!
 
It all comes down to ethics, by what I am reading. When manufacturers go for the extra dollar, the extra pazzaz they try to create with issuing exclusives, in my mind is unwarranted. Sideshow have been able to do business and keep their ethics in check, within reason. Their exclusive range has been beneficial in bringing the dollars to those that create it, rather than to those that sell it on. They preclude themselves from ebay and scalping practises and focus on their place in the market. A diminishing market, but revitalised through their ingenuity and connection with collectors, and a realistic grasp of the bigger picture.

I can see my dislike of the exclusive continues to return, much like a goanna bite.

I have and hope no-one else has any use for a graded item. What it proves is wasted on me. I dont need someone else to tell me how good something is in their opinion, and have to pay for the privelidge.
 
creecher said:
I have and hope no-one else has any use for a graded item. What it proves is wasted on me. I dont need someone else to tell me how good something is in their opinion, and have to pay for the privelidge.


Agree 100%...The onset of the "graded" item is the single most worst thing to ever come out of the collecting hobby as a whole!!! I hate the idea!!!
 
I started collecting when I was a young kid with comics and it still continues today, but in the late 80's early nineties I took a few years off due to the craziness of the times. I too could no longer swallow all of the stupid costume changes or storyline revamps, the hologram covers and variant issues. I just had enough of it.

I never was a bag and boarder as a kid, I just bought them and kept them in a box to read again one day. I never sold any of them or got one for an investment. I just loved comics, and I loved the characters in them. THAT was my motivation to collect comics and I still do the very same thing. I have a few rare ones, but they stay in the box. Only for my own enjoyment.

With figures I started back in 97 or 98, just getting the Movie Maniacs line from McFarlane. And again, it was for the love of the films and the characters that were portrayed. This continued for the Re-release of Star Wars and again when I found Sideshow.

Zero was different to me, he was a zombie... and I LOOOOVE Zombies. So I had to have him. Once he arrived I was very happy to have him on the shelf, but I started to doubt my own sanity for paying almost $200 for him. This only made things worse when I started planning my wedding..

One day the bottom will fall out and when it does I will still be here... I've always been collecting and I don't see that changing. :cool:

Also, on a sidenote.... Last weekend my Fiance's friends (her future bridesmaids) came by our place to meet me. They saw my stuff as I was working on painting... Instantly the jokes began, mean spirited comments... I know they meant no harm, but it hurt. I could not help but feel like I was 2 feet tall, like what I do was the worst thing any man could ever go about doing. I know I'm not alone in this, I'm sure that some of you have been rediculed for your collection... just thought I would share...

But the mere fact that we continue, even despite the negativity, gives me faith that no matter what happens to this industry, we will still be here to comment on it and get the stuff we want...
 
DarkArtist81 said:
Also, on a sidenote.... Last weekend my Fiance's friends (her future bridesmaids) came by our place to meet me. They saw my stuff as I was working on painting... Instantly the jokes began, mean spirited comments... I know they meant no harm, but it hurt. I could not help but feel like I was 2 feet tall, like what I do was the worst thing any man could ever go about doing. I know I'm not alone in this, I'm sure that some of you have been rediculed for your collection... just thought I would share...
Small minded rats....Nothing makes me more angry than small minded people who cant see past a stereotype....I dont want to offend Josh, being as they are your bridesmaids, but I hate people like that!!! I have taken my share of "40 year old virgin" jokes but it usaully only happens once!! Not much makes me mad, but it only takes one stupid "how old are you" joke to set me off!! Anyway, thats why we have the freaks board, so we can not be rediculed for our love of collecting!!
 
DarkArtist81 said:
Also, on a sidenote.... Last weekend my Fiance's friends (her future bridesmaids) came by our place to meet me. They saw my stuff as I was working on painting... Instantly the jokes began, mean spirited comments... I know they meant no harm, but it hurt. I could not help but feel like I was 2 feet tall, like what I do was the worst thing any man could ever go about doing.
DOnt sweat it. i get pickin comments occassionally from my friends too. Roll with it and join in. Follow a "Still playing with dolls?" comment with "Damn right. Suck my thumb and fill my diaper twice each night too!"

the less they see it bothers you, the quicker they realize its no fun to pick and stop and dont do it much in the future.
 
Hey DA... Tell me this: for each one of those bridesmaids that were laughing at your collection how many people looked at what you have in your collection and were blown away by it?

Food for whatever you like. :D
 
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