Amazing Spiderman 545 One More Day / Civil War Tie-In Discussion - SPOILERS

Okay, this is a discussion of the ending to Spiderman's much hyped One More Day story arc. The last issue came out this week, and ... well, I can't say much more without getting into Spoiler territory so here's your warning:

SPOILERS BELOW:
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Okay, the entire book is worth a read, but here is the "money shot" if you will:





Quick recap, Aunt May was critically shot when a villain came to their house gunning for Peter (remember after Civil War, everyone knew Peter was Spiderman). Peter turned to everyone he could think of, including Iron Man in what I found to be the best part of the arc, in an attempt to save her. In the end, he turns to Mephisto (Marvel used to call him the Devil ... now they treat him like some other dimensional being ... think the Beyonder from Secret Wars) for help. The only way Mephisto would agree to help him is if he and MJ agreed to have their marriage "wiped away."

I really am torn at this point. The entire 4 issue story arc was interested, emotional, well-written .... but MAGIC again? This whole situation goes back to the popularity of 2 properties: The movies and the Ultimate Spiderman book. Marvel has been talking for some years now about how Spiderman doesn't connect with the kids because he's married, etc. So, they have been looking for a way to "fix" that. I honestly never saw that as a problem. This is the Spiderman I grew up with. Why can't "my" Spiderman reflect the perspective of a 32 year old grown-up. The kids have the Ultimate line to get into. Don't get me wrong, I like those books too, but come on, why do they have to be carbon-copies? But, as I said, this has been in the works for some time, so I knew it was coming. They suggested many things ... divorce, Mary Jane's death, etc. Those 2 options could have been great if well written. I never expected them to go with divorce, since that removes the character of Spiderman even further from the kid/teenager demographic, so I figured it would be death. If handled well, that could have been a great year or 2 of story lines. He already had to deal with the death of Gwen, how would he handle losing the 2nd love of his life. But, this ending ... I can't express ...words ... just MAGIC again? I knew the moment Spiderman took off his mask in Civil War, they would find a way to reverse it. Hell, my friends and I joked that he would steal Iron Man's brain washing satellite to erase everyone's memory (true story arch there people). But, I never dreamed they would go with the Mephisto magic eraser. Much like bringing Jean Grey back killed the impact of Dark Phoenix Saga, this pretty much hobbles the enjoyment I got from Civil War. Spidey's unmasking was a big event, now it's gone. I would be lying if I didn't admit I am curious how they will handle the post-MJ story lines. It's just the magic card was a lazy plot device that pretty much let them have their cake and eat it too - Pete wakes up and it's like his marriage never existed. MJ is still in his circle of friends, but she's mad at him "for what he did" ... some plot device I guess we will learn about in the future. My point is that some writer can always put them back together which would pretty much invalidate this arc as well. Sigh ... if they were so set on changing the setup, they should have just killed MJ and given us a shattered Peter dealing with the changes. This just feels lazy.

So, like I said, I am torn. I don't know exactly how to feel. How say you other Marvel Fanatics?

P.S. To those I argued with during Civil War about the unmasking lasting - I told you so ...

the DJURDJEVIC variant cover of this issue is amazing.I Bought the issue just for the cover yesterday.

This is pretty pathetic.

Quesada takes over Marvel and pretty much has ruined the entire universe within his stay as EIC.

This is just a way for Marvel to "clean up" his mess since having Peter reveal his secret identity was THE stupidest thing Marvel has ever done...except maybe for the whole Spider Clone Saga.

I'd like to know how Marvel is going to try to fix this in a few years once they realize what a big mistake they've done.

The best way to improve Marvel is to get rid of Quesada before he ruins any more of their characters.

Thanks. You just saved me four bucks.

Although it will be awkward to have all but the last of the issues in my collection...still. I can't and won't support this.

And it's not really magic, per se. It's metaphysics. Theology. Mephisto is the Marvel iconisation of The Devil, after all. So we've brought what amounts to the opposite of God into the scenario. I don't have a problem with that, really. But I do have a problem with them taking the easy way out of the unmasking.

I've considered cutting back on my comics lately, and I've wanted to start by ignoring all of the huge mega-events that promise to change the (insert company name here) universe "forever." Well, "forever" is a very flexible concept in the comic book world these days, and, since the Death of Superman in the 90s, that attitude has been steadily destroying the relevance of comic books.

The death of Steve Roger means nothing if he's resurrected in 2008.

Tony Stark's alcoholism means nothing if we don't see him struggle with it.

The sacrifice of Colossus is meaningless of a famous writer can say, "I miss him," and reinvent the whole story of his "death."

There's only so many of these hits that I can take. My faith is lost. I'll stick to my top characters now for so long as the writing continues to excel. (Iron Man, DD, Hulk, Punisher, Nova, Thor.)

But as for the Civil Wars and Countdowns and the Crisis of the Year? I'm through.

Bonehead15 said:

This is pretty pathetic.

Quesada takes over Marvel and pretty much has ruined the entire universe within his stay as EIC.

This is just a way for Marvel to "clean up" his mess since having Peter reveal his secret identity was THE stupidest thing Marvel has ever done...except maybe for the whole Spider Clone Saga.

I'd like to know how Marvel is going to try to fix this in a few years once they realize what a big mistake they've done.

The best way to improve Marvel is to get rid of Quesada before he ruins any more of their characters.

Click to expand...

I disagree with you on Quesada "ruining" the entire universe...actually,come to think of it I think he has brought about some of the most impressive and drastic changes to the Marvel Universe that make it so much more unique, grounded, and overall more interesting than the DC Universe. Civil War, The Death of Captain America, heck even the whole Annihilation storyline and its sequel Annihilation:Conquest have been pretty damn good to me.

However, I don't disagree with you here...it has been NO secret that Joe Quesada does not like the Peter-Mary Jane marriage and wants them broken up...I've heard the rumors that he however is afraid to kill off MJ because of fan backlash...so this is what he instead goes with.

Despite it all, IT IS STUPID and I really do not like this storyline one bit. I think Peter/MJ are fine the way they are but if you had to take her away maybe do something like fake her death and keep her away for a year or two. Just like Douglas said there...don't do this whole crap with magic and Mephisto. This is one story where I think Quesada dropped the ball.

I think within a year or so you'll see someone like Dr. Strange or even Mephisto again reversing the spell. This actually I think is worse than the whole "Spider-man was really the clone and the supposed clone was the real Spider-man" debacle of the 90's...because now here if you want to reverse everything...it'll be like what happened during the time when they were apart? Is that all some dream to them?

I was greatly looking forward to this series, as Spider-man is probably my fave in the Marvel Universe. The "Back in Black" run was great, and brought some much-needed depth to S-M. "One More Day" took much too long to get going, with the first two issues being essentially a whine-fest.

I am not sure what to think just yet with the resolution, and how it will interface with the rest of Marvel.

In the famous words of mr horse.....


"No sir, I don't like it."

Bonehead15 said:

This is pretty pathetic.

Quesada takes over Marvel and pretty much has ruined the entire universe within his stay as EIC.

This is just a way for Marvel to "clean up" his mess since having Peter reveal his secret identity was THE stupidest thing Marvel has ever done...except maybe for the whole Spider Clone Saga.

I'd like to know how Marvel is going to try to fix this in a few years once they realize what a big mistake they've done.

The best way to improve Marvel is to get rid of Quesada before he ruins any more of their characters.

Click to expand...

I do believe Quesada dropped the ball with this ending, but I wouldn't personally denounce his run at Marvel. Civil War added a little bit of realism, if you will, it showed us how fickle we as humans are about our heroes. I know we don't have super-powered heroes in real life, but we do consider many normal people to be "heroes" ... whether they be cops, athletes, etc. Public opinion can turn on a dime when a human exhibits his or her human nature. It also exhibited one of the weaknesses of government - the desire to control everything, despite personal freedoms ... I won't get into Mr. Bush's "Animal Farm" ... this isn't a thread to argue politics. Point being I enjoyed Civil War. I also liked the idea of Spidey being conned into unmasking ... knew it wouldn't last, but still, it lead to the confrontation with Iron Man, and other cool parts of Civil War. I also have grown to like the "Death" of Steve Rogers storyline. Don't get me wrong, I know they will bring Steve back. But if they use magic again, I will be pissed. I still think the death was faked ... and that would work for me in an espionage style comic. How many other movies or shows have used the faked death scenario ... it works. Cliched yes, but it could work if handled properly. Also ..... A Captain America Spoiler .... you are warned.........................................................................................

Captain America this week finally revealed Bucky would be the new Captain America. I actual like this. The best part of the Death story line is how they have brought Winter Soldier to the front ... given a great personalization to Bucky. Sure, I know this is just a way to get a more "Ultimates" style Cap ... but it doesn't irritate me as much as I was expecting.

But back to the Spidey magic erase. Haven't these writers read all the theories of changes in time (Butterfly Effect a great example). Pete was a major part of Civil War. His unmasking brought a lot of positive support to Stark. If it never happened, there would HAVE to be major repercussions to that timeline. In fact, until we see the change reflected in other Marvel books, I am wondering if Peter is still in Marvel "continuity". Is he in some alternate reality? It reminds me of the X-Files where Mulder found the Genie in the Persian Rug. He wished for world peace, so the Genie made everyone else disappear. When he protested, she replied, "you should have wished more carefully. Did you really think I could change the human nature of billions of people? You got what you asked for. There is no fighting now, only peace." That possibility could be interesting ... if it's not permanent. Mephisto has never been the most honest being when it comes to deals ... just ask Ghost Rider. Maybe he created an alternative dimension as a way of fulfilling his promise. But to be honest, I am probably giving them too much credit. It's probably a "do-over" or "mulligan". I am starting to get the same sneaking suspicion of this in Messiah Complex. They are killing major mutant characters left and right, despite the fact that there are suppose to only be a couple of 100 left. Right after Wanda changed everything in House of M with "No More Mutants" - yeah, more magic - Layla made the comment "I have to keep lying to you Jamie, or everything will go back to the way it was." Let's hope they don't get lazy twice in the span of a few months ... fingers crossed.

https://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=PjN0ThpswRc

Now, having watched the above video you know what my feelings are on this story. The same as the gentleman sitting on the commode's. Frankly, OMD is a little unsettling. Not just because of the whole "make a pact with Satan thing" , although that is waaaaay out of character for Spidey or MJ.

Unsettling because Marvel seems to have run out of ideas for Spidey. It appears that they are saying, "This character has run his course, and the only way to make him interesting again is to totally reboot him and take him backwards and start all over". Like they did with Captain America, Iron man, the Avengers and Thor, and the Fantastic Four back in 1997 with Heroes Reborn. Through years of horrible editing and mediocre stories they wrote themselves into a corner. The history of each character involved was so terrible, they needed a "Crisis" for Marvel's characters. In order to relaunch them with a clean slate, and get rid of this unwanted crap. They should've took Spidey with them. After all, they were in the middle of the clone saga at the time...so it couldn't have hurt.

But since he didn't go to the new Franklin Richards' world, they had to do something. So, when sales went exactly where the above gentleman's copy of OMD went...the clone saga was (not so) strategically removed, revealing it all to be the plan of Norman Osborn. Who wasn't killed in ASM 122 as we were led to believe. He had been alive in Europe all this time. Whatever. It had more to do with a front page story on the cover of USA Today about Spidey's sales plummeting due to fans uniting via the Internet than it did to with anything else. It seemd like Marvel might get Spidey back on track. Since then, we have had the following occur:

Pete and MJ had a baby. Supposedly still born, but snuck off to Norman Osborne instead. And subsequently written out of existence except in Amazing Spider girl.

Then MJ supposedly is killed in a plane crash.

But comes back.

Then Pete's origin is tweaked (or tampered with)

Then he dies and is reborn.

with stingers.

that pop out of his arms like Wolverine claws.

and organic web shooters.

then he unmasks during Civil War, truly a dumb @$$ award winner stunt there

then his aunt gets shot. (Well, duh!)

Now he's a pawn of Satan.

I'm just wondering how long it will be before this makes the front page of the USA Today. If I could address Quesada personally I would remind him of something. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. It may be time for him to get his books...because he may be getting took to school really soon. Cause he aint getting anymore cash from me till he fixes this mess he made.

They should've done another fake death for MJ. I mean sheesh...

BTW...looks like Jean Grey may be coming back with "Messiah Complex"...there's another Marvel character back.

I guess the Editors thought there were too many red-heads around?

There were so many Other things they could have done. This deal, like many of you said, seems allmost too fair. This is marvel's version of satan himself. Granted, they took away his child, but it was a child he never knew, ANd now does not even remember. It. Makes. No. Sense.
YOu want a better deal? take a page from smallville, Bring Aunt May back, but in exchange someone else must die. Don't tell him who, then have MJ die unexpectedly a few weeks later. Is it cheasy? yes, it is. It would also be a clear rip off of Smallville, But more importantly, Don't EVER lete Peter forget he made the decision, and Caused MJ's Death. Would of made for better character development, we could of ended up with a grimmer parker, and that might be what is needed to breathe new life into the character.

Instead, we get the magic wand.
Lame, so very lame. Not gonna buy it. Ok, so marvel is restarting parker to make him appela to kids a bit more? So they would rather alienate their adult fans who have been with them for years, and HAVE MONEY TO BUY THEIR COMICS, and would rather pander to the younger generation who prefer to botleg their comics of isohunt, due to having little or no money? Smart Marvel, Real smart.

lerath666 said:

There were so many Other things they could have done. This deal, like many of you said, seems allmost too fair. This is marvel's version of satan himself. Granted, they took away his child, but it was a child he never knew, ANd now does not even remember. It. Makes. No. Sense.
YOu want a better deal? take a page from smallville, Bring Aunt May back, but in exchange someone else must die. Don't tell him who, then have MJ die unexpectedly a few weeks later. Is it cheasy? yes, it is. It would also be a clear rip off of Smallville, But more importantly, Don't EVER lete Peter forget he made the decision, and Caused MJ's Death. Would of made for better character development, we could of ended up with a grimmer parker, and that might be what is needed to breathe new life into the character.

Instead, we get the magic wand.
Lame, so very lame. Not gonna buy it. Ok, so marvel is restarting parker to make him appela to kids a bit more? So they would rather alienate their adult fans who have been with them for years, and HAVE MONEY TO BUY THEIR COMICS, and would rather pander to the younger generation who prefer to botleg their comics of isohunt, due to having little or no money? Smart Marvel, Real smart.

Click to expand...

Lerath is right ... this is the same demon who cures cancer, only to kill the person later in a motorcycle accident.

However, after taking a few days to mull this over, I am going to give them some leeway. We have no idea what MJ offered him to "seal the deal". We also have no idea what the consequences will be. Plus, I have faith in one person - J. Michael Straczynski. I just can't believe he would let Marvel force him to write this story line without some kind of twist. It was lazy, but I will wait and judge the overall effect in a few months after I see where they are going with it.

This is the type of thing that has kept me from getting into comics more. They kill someone/bring them back, reveal something/do this to fix it/change history of what's happened, etc. It really has put me off for years on ever getting into them. That's why really as far as I'm concerned I stick with the movies and just liking the pieces as they come out. I don't care to get into something that will change the next week when the new comic comes out.

Just below I have posted and excerpt/warning from the Marvel message board concerning this. While I agree with the parts about not being insulting, for a moderator to bascially tell an angry group of fans: "Don't like it? Stop buying it. Easy as that." is extremely bad business. If I hadn't already planned to drop Amazing before this statement, this statement sealed the deal. Could you imagine the EIC of Coke or Pepsi or Sony behaving this way. Wow. Bad form.


*********MARVEL'S WARNING***********


Here is your ONE warning. Make insulting comments towards anyone no matter if they are a fan that liked the story, defends various creators, Joe Quesada of JMS themselves, or whomever and you will be banned. Simple as that.

These is absolutely no reason to bash, threaten, insult or whatever else to those involved with writing a fictional story you did not like. Don't like it? Stop buying it. Easy as that.

By all means feel free to critique the work itself (meaning the story), but not the person. And instead of saying "It sucked!", contribute to the forums by posting why you didn't like it, because just posing "It sucked!" is trollish behavior and nothing more.

Anton Phibes said:

Just below I have posted and excerpt/warning from the Marvel message board concerning this. While I agree with the parts about not being insulting, for a moderator to bascially tell an angry group of fans: "Don't like it? Stop buying it. Easy as that." is extremely bad business. If I hadn't already planned to drop Amazing before this statement, this statement sealed the deal. Could you imagine the EIC of Coke or Pepsi or Sony behaving this way. Wow. Bad form.


*********MARVEL'S WARNING***********


Here is your ONE warning. Make insulting comments towards anyone no matter if they are a fan that liked the story, defends various creators, Joe Quesada of JMS themselves, or whomever and you will be banned. Simple as that.

These is absolutely no reason to bash, threaten, insult or whatever else to those involved with writing a fictional story you did not like. Don't like it? Stop buying it. Easy as that.

By all means feel free to critique the work itself (meaning the story), but not the person. And instead of saying "It sucked!", contribute to the forums by posting why you didn't like it, because just posing "It sucked!" is trollish behavior and nothing more.

Click to expand...

I agree with the sentiment ... but the tone is very unprofessional. They have to keep in mind that some people have spent their entire lives following this character. Of course, major changes are going to inspire some type of emotion in the reader. But, resorting to "shut up or I am taking my ball and going home tactics" are silly ... AND bad for business. The better response would have been:

"We here at Marvel understand the current swelling of feelings right now as the One More Day story line ends. While developing this arc, we went in fully aware that some people would react harshly to the outcome. However, we felt it was necessary to continue Peter's growth as a character. All we ask is that you remain civil (please, nothing can justify insults and threats) and gives the storyline the chance to fully develop. We think you will be happy in the end."

What they did basically amounts to Shatner getting up in front of a Star Trek convention and telling everyone, "Get a life ... move out of your parent's basement and get a life people."

As a famous character once said, "nothing good will come of this."

My take on this whole thing is that I'm not taking it too seriously. I read all of OMD and I didn't think it was as bad as most (Aside from Peter's incessant whining). I saw what they were doing from a mile away. Of course that was Peter's daughter. Of course those were Peter's alternate selves. Of course MJ would take the deal because Pete just can't deal with more guilt on his conscious. With the results of OMD, it seems you can't think about the repercussions of this change beyond Spider-man, because as of now if you try to, it doesn't seem to work. Just assume Peter never revealed his identity and they never married and pretty much drop it there.

So here's the way I'm looking at it. Within two years I think Pete and MJ will be back together and it will be a massive reunion, wedding festivities all around. The story from here on it will be how they fall in love all over again. I like that the organic webshooters are gone (for anyone who missed that glimpse of Pete's shooters in the last panel) and I'm guessing that means all those rebirth things from JMS' run are gone too. So best-case scenario we get a "classic" Spider-man pursuing MJ again. Well, I guess things could be worse (hopefully they won't be).

I've read Spider-man on and off since McFarlane was on the scene, and caught up with all the classic stories thanks to Marvel Masterworks. When it comes down to it Spidey is my favorite comic hero. With this storyline I'm torn, but optimistic because it changes some things that I didn't like all that much, though I really do hate the break-up of the marriage. It was something rather unique to Spider-man. My consolation is that hopefully the stories that bring them back together will be worthwhile.

You know, more than ANYTHING, I would love to Hear Stan the Man's take on this. I realy hate the story, but just aas Kevin smith made me come around to Like the potrayal of anakin Skywalker by Haden Christianson, A thumbs up from Stan Lee Would make me feel better about it, and possibly even grow to like it.

Well on the very last page of AMSM 545 Stan Lee gives props to JMS for his eight year run on Spider-man. He doesn't specifically comment on the OMD story line, but he does say that JMS has tripled Spidey sales and made a lot of innovative changes that have brought new readers to the comic. I'm paraphrasing of course, but he does congratulate JMS on his entire run. I'm not sure that it counts as approval for this specific story, but it does seem that he approves of JMS' work as a whole.

Ultimate Weapon said:

Well on the very last page of AMSM 545 Stan Lee gives props to JMS for his eight year run on Spider-man. He doesn't specifically comment on the OMD story line, but he does say that JMS has tripled Spidey sales and made a lot of innovative changes that have brought new readers to the comic. I'm paraphrasing of course, but he does congratulate JMS on his entire run. I'm not sure that it counts as approval for this specific story, but it does seem that he approves of JMS' work as a whole.

Click to expand...

JMS doesn't even approve of OMD. He asked to have his name removed from the last two issues but Joey Q talked him out of it.