What constitutes 'never displayed'?

Howdy there,

I've bought a few hot toys items in the past that counted as 'used' but the description would say 'never displayed, just inspected' and the like, but they couldn't be counted as 'new". When I received those figures they clearly showed they hadn't been displayed or messed around with. I just bought another with the same description, however in this case it's definitely been displayed. Things like wear on the outfit, the fact that different hands (weapon holding) from the defaults came plugged in with the default relaxed hands in the tray. I don't want to specify too many details as you never know, the one I bought it from may be a member on this board and I don't mean to offend.

Upon contacting him he told me that he did 'mark it as 'used' - and that means obviously it has been handled. But never displayed' He didn't deny that it was played with as I asked him. He then followed up by himself with what he meant by 'never displayed' is that he 'kept it away from the sun and light.' This made it seems to me like he just didn't mean the usual thing by that wording and that it is a properly used figure.

I don't mean to accuse here, I'm asking if perhaps I'm even in the wrong, then I'd like to know. In the past that description has always meant one thing and I always received what I expected in the item, except for this time. I suppose one could say it has never been displayed, he took it out for a few minutes and played around with it and that would be accurate. That is why I am asking. Perhaps I just need to be more careful in the future. Or perhaps it was misleading.

Let me know what you guys think!

Never displayed means just that. It was never on display. It was taken out of the box to make sure it was in good condition, and then put right back in for storage. Keeping it away from light means nothing. It was still displayed.

I don't use that description unless the figure is like new. Opened, inspected, but definitely not posed or played with. People who say 'never displayed' yet you get the figure and it has visible fingerprints and usage are being deceptive.

Thanks guys that helps. That's what I thought too but thought perhaps I'm being too picky.

Well he sent a bunch more emails saying things like 'used is used' implying it's definitely been.. Used lol.
And that 'I could see in the pic that the hands were switched.' That last part is true enough, but I didn't realize I need to analyze every small detail in the picture when the description was so clear.

Due to the way he's talking I doubt he's a member of this forum so I'll give some more details. It is a hot toys battle damaged t-800 (T1). This figure comes with his lapels held down with threads attached to his jacket. The ones on the upper lapels have been cut and removed so the collar can be popped. I understand they could snap easily too but to remove the dangling thread one has to cut the knot. So it's been knowingly removed.

When I pointed that out he offered $10 off for them as there was no rebuttal as I knew what I was talking about. He justified only $10 due to free shipping (but it was clearly part of the price I paid). He also said I should have mentioned it if it was an issue. I didn't buy other items because they clearly said they removed the threads and were used etc.

I feel he's going to make things difficult so I offered to pay return shipping as I'm still with PayPal Canada which offers to reimburse return shipping a few times per year. That may make it easier for him to take it back and I don't lose out either. My concern is if I do that instead of the usual eBay method he might not refund me fully. Perhaps I should just go by regular eBay methods.

Any other advice would be appreciated.

Popnfresh98 said:

Thanks guys that helps. That's what I thought too but thought perhaps I'm being too picky.

Well he sent a bunch more emails saying things like 'used is used' implying it's definitely been.. Used lol.
And that 'I could see in the pic that the hands were switched.' That last part is true enough, but I didn't realize I need to analyze every small detail in the picture when the description was so clear.

Due to the way he's talking I doubt he's a member of this forum so I'll give some more details. It is a hot toys battle damaged t-800 (T1). This figure comes with his lapels held down with threads attached to his jacket. The ones on the upper lapels have been cut and removed so the collar can be popped. I understand they could snap easily too but to remove the dangling thread one has to cut the knot. So it's been knowingly removed.

When I pointed that out he offered $10 off for them as there was no rebuttal as I knew what I was talking about. He justified only $10 due to free shipping (but it was clearly part of the price I paid). He also said I should have mentioned it if it was an issue. I didn't buy other items because they clearly said they removed the threads and were used etc.

I feel he's going to make things difficult so I offered to pay return shipping as I'm still with PayPal Canada which offers to reimburse return shipping a few times per year. That may make it easier for him to take it back and I don't lose out either. My concern is if I do that instead of the usual eBay method he might not refund me fully. Perhaps I should just go by regular eBay methods.

Any other advice would be appreciated.

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The Seller is being unreasonable...if the item has been altered as you described and this was not disclosed then it is "item is not as described." The seller does not get to decide what a reasonable partial refund is...that is entirely up to the buyer...if the seller does not agree on the amount that satisfies the buyer the buyer goes through EBay and gets a refund (including their own return shipping cost).

Popnfresh98 said:

Thanks guys that helps. That's what I thought too but thought perhaps I'm being too picky.

Well he sent a bunch more emails saying things like 'used is used' implying it's definitely been.. Used lol.
And that 'I could see in the pic that the hands were switched.' That last part is true enough, but I didn't realize I need to analyze every small detail in the picture when the description was so clear.

Due to the way he's talking I doubt he's a member of this forum so I'll give some more details. It is a hot toys battle damaged t-800 (T1). This figure comes with his lapels held down with threads attached to his jacket. The ones on the upper lapels have been cut and removed so the collar can be popped. I understand they could snap easily too but to remove the dangling thread one has to cut the knot. So it's been knowingly removed.

When I pointed that out he offered $10 off for them as there was no rebuttal as I knew what I was talking about. He justified only $10 due to free shipping (but it was clearly part of the price I paid). He also said I should have mentioned it if it was an issue. I didn't buy other items because they clearly said they removed the threads and were used etc.

I feel he's going to make things difficult so I offered to pay return shipping as I'm still with PayPal Canada which offers to reimburse return shipping a few times per year. That may make it easier for him to take it back and I don't lose out either. My concern is if I do that instead of the usual eBay method he might not refund me fully. Perhaps I should just go by regular eBay methods.

Any other advice would be appreciated.

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That statement right then and there would have me demanding a full refund. I got mad just reading it. Because I buy both new and used, and I've bought unsealed but never displayed, and I got exactly what I paid for - heck, you could even smell the newness.

It's not MY job to badger a seller with details I may or may not even know to ask. Like the pink IM thing - if a seller has inspected an item then I expect my IM to be red, not pink. If I find something after the fact - 'coz things happen - then a reputable seller IMO apologizes and works to make it right. I pay on time, I don't scam sellers and I expect to be treated with the same respect.

In your place I'd be demanding a FULL refund alone with filing complaints with anyone I can think of. Too many honest good sellers out there to have to put up with this. I did have to put my foot down with an Asian seller recently but I got my stuff; but 99% of the U.S., Canadian, European, and Asian sellers I've bought from have been awesome. Even tuck little gifts in every now and then. Don't put up with this cr@p the seller knows what he did, he was just hoping you wouldn't notice or you would just live with it if you did.

Sassafras said:

That statement right then and there would have me demanding a full refund. I got mad just reading it. Because I buy both new and used, and I've bought unsealed but never displayed, and I got exactly what I paid for - heck, you could even smell the newness.

It's not MY job to badger a seller with details I may or may not even know to ask. Like the pink IM thing - if a seller has inspected an item then I expect my IM to be red, not pink. If I find something after the fact - 'coz things happen - then a reputable seller IMO apologizes and works to make it right. I pay on time, I don't scam sellers and I expect to be treated with the same respect.

In your place I'd be demanding a FULL refund alone with filing complaints with anyone I can think of. Too many honest good sellers out there to have to put up with this. I did have to put my foot down with an Asian seller recently but I got my stuff; but 99% of the U.S., Canadian, European, and Asian sellers I've bought from have been awesome. Even tuck little gifts in every now and then. Don't put up with this cr@p the seller knows what he did, he was just hoping you wouldn't notice or you would just live with it if you did.

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Yeah it did annoy me as well, as if I need to ask him a checklist of questions. I forgot to mention that he *did* have a comeback for the modded lapel situation at first. He said 'maybe that jacket just didn't have those threads.' The holes were clearly there lol.

Yeah I'm taking your advice to heart and going for the full refund and I've started the process. Just a few days and I should have my money back, eBay has been good about this stuff thus far.

I appreciate the input!

Popnfresh98 said:

Thanks guys that helps. That's what I thought too but thought perhaps I'm being too picky.

Well he sent a bunch more emails saying things like 'used is used' implying it's definitely been.. Used lol.
And that 'I could see in the pic that the hands were switched.' That last part is true enough, but I didn't realize I need to analyze every small detail in the picture when the description was so clear.

Due to the way he's talking I doubt he's a member of this forum so I'll give some more details. It is a hot toys battle damaged t-800 (T1). This figure comes with his lapels held down with threads attached to his jacket. The ones on the upper lapels have been cut and removed so the collar can be popped. I understand they could snap easily too but to remove the dangling thread one has to cut the knot. So it's been knowingly removed.

When I pointed that out he offered $10 off for them as there was no rebuttal as I knew what I was talking about. He justified only $10 due to free shipping (but it was clearly part of the price I paid). He also said I should have mentioned it if it was an issue. I didn't buy other items because they clearly said they removed the threads and were used etc.

I feel he's going to make things difficult so I offered to pay return shipping as I'm still with PayPal Canada which offers to reimburse return shipping a few times per year. That may make it easier for him to take it back and I don't lose out either. My concern is if I do that instead of the usual eBay method he might not refund me fully. Perhaps I should just go by regular eBay methods.

Any other advice would be appreciated.

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Advertising was misleading though he did mark as used. With these products 'used = displayed'
What else could it mean? I assume he didn't make it a kids bath toy for a while

Is the collar being popped really worth going through the refund process for?
It does make it more scene accurate (from memory)

IMO personally it comes down to how much you paid. If you got a good deal and the fig is in good condition I'd let it slide.
If you paid a huge premium and the seller made miles over original retail price then it's fair to ask for more than $10 partial refund.

Edit: in case I wasn't clear, he is totally at fault, not you. Just trying to help you decide if it's worth the hassle to rectify...

Well for me it would be that at least the plastic wrappings on the hands, legs, torso etc are unremoved. It's pretty difficult to remove them without someone noticing, since they're pretty tight and usually requires cutting. If someone claims that a figure has "never been displayed" yet those wrappers are missing, then it's probably displayed.

I would also like to add that it's a GOOD thing some sellers, especially in Asia- open the box, this is usually to check for any defects or deterioration. I know a lot of sellers where I am do that, and they have no ill intent aside from being 100% the figure is free from defects, plus they would hate it if an unscrupulous buyer swapping the figure for a damaged one, hence why so many sellers open the boxes.

Honestly, I'd assume it's a lie. Sales-related exaggeration. In contract law, it's called 'puffing'. Same as if somebody sold you a car, but swore it was only driven by their 80yo grandmother to church on Sundays. Caveat emptor. It's your responsibility to figure out if the thing is in good enough condition to buy, without falling for all the sales nonsense.

If it's open ... it's used. If they were just going to resell it, they wouldn't have unsealed it to 'inspect'. They did something with it.

SnakeDoc

If it has never been displayed.

Jameson Rook said:

Well for me it would be that at least the plastic wrappings on the hands, legs, torso etc are unremoved. It's pretty difficult to remove them without someone noticing, since they're pretty tight and usually requires cutting. If someone claims that a figure has "never been displayed" yet those wrappers are missing, then it's probably displayed.

I would also like to add that it's a GOOD thing some sellers, especially in Asia- open the box, this is usually to check for any defects or deterioration. I know a lot of sellers where I am do that, and they have no ill intent aside from being 100% the figure is free from defects, plus they would hate it if an unscrupulous buyer swapping the figure for a damaged one, hence why so many sellers open the boxes.

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That's fine re inspecting and/or parting out - just got a parted out TWS Bucky from Asia and absolute mint - no box etc. but plastic still on neck, head, hands, feet - flawless and I knew exactly what I was buying. Very happy with the seller and I'd go back for more stuff. Heck, the fig even smelled new and is so nice I re-wrapped until I can work with him.

Popnfresh 98 should've been just as happy with the purchase, so hope full refund given. IMO show no mercy to scammers 'coz probably most of the time folks just live with it - huh. As a buyer I've gotta depend on pics and descriptions and feedback and trust to some extent.

Hey, just updating that the item is on the way back to the seller. Hopefully it won't be long until I'm refunded. Yes I agree with everyone here that not displayed should mean not displayed. I can personally even deal with the plastic missing, but wear and tear is not acceptable. I even noticed afterwards his belt buckle had a large ding revealing the black plastic underneath.

I've bought many not displayed, opened for inspection only items before. As sassafras says they smelled like they were new and it was evident they had only been checked and nothing more. However as this fellow countered my expectations with defiance I became a bit unsure if I'm reading too much into that label of not displayed. I'm glad to see everyone agrees that it is not acceptable. However perhaps I will have to be more careful in the future as well, and ask (but I'd feel so silly) exactly how much you played with it etc.

Thanks again for all the input guys - it's truly appreciated.

Puffing does not apply to ebay. Purchases are unable to be visually inspected so the words of the describer must be taken as fact for the system to work. Item description is law, and if item is not as described you are entitled to full refund.

Never displayed means it was never removed from the original package. It is still sealed. He can describe it any way he wants in the written text of the ad, but ebay goes by the condition selected in the drop down:

Item specifics
Condition: New or Used

Are you going to display the item? Is there a problem with the item? Is it missing parts or broken? If not, who cares how he worded it, that's splitting hairs and trying being an ass.

If there is damage, that is different. If not, just display your doll and move on.

Yeah it's a big grey area but never displayed doesn't explicitly state that it hasn't been handled. Never displayed can imply new in box, however I don't think in this instance anything more than $10 refund would be reasonable. Also never cut a deal outside of ebay if you want to be sure not to be stung

EVILFACE said:

Never displayed means it was never removed from the original package. It is still sealed.

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No, it doesn't, or they would just say "sealed" and open does not mean used. Anyone in their right mind opens this stuff to inspect it as soon as they get it. I do that for all my items and always list them as new and never had an issue. Most buyers WANT them open to ensure they get a quality product and avoid return/replacement hassle.

generalszabo said:

Yeah it's a big grey area but never displayed doesn't explicitly state that it hasn't been handled. Never displayed can imply new in box, however I don't think in this instance anything more than $10 refund would be reasonable. Also never cut a deal outside of ebay if you want to be sure not to be stung

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How are you going to inspect it if you don't handle it? You can deal outside of ebay, paypal has similar protection also. I do many deals outside of ebay right here on the forum.

67L88Stingray said:

Most buyers WANT them open to ensure they get a quality product and avoid return/replacement hassle.

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this is why "never displayed" is an important description. It conveys relevant information- there is no dust, no spots, no wear, no sunlight damage etc. The describer may as well be saying these things individually if he describes his item as "never displayed". Buyers want to know an item has been checked for damage and the necessary parts replaced by the manufacturer in this mad world of bad qc before buying something that may be years past its release with parts long gone.

67L88Stingray said:

No, it doesn't, or they would just say "sealed" and open does not mean used. Anyone in their right mind opens this stuff to inspect it as soon as they get it. I do that for all my items and always list them as new and never had an issue. Most buyers WANT them open to ensure they get a quality product and avoid return/replacement hassle.

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FriendlySamurai said:

this is why "never displayed" is an important description. It conveys relevant information- there is no dust, no spots, no wear, no sunlight damage etc. The describer may as well be saying these things individually if he describes his item as "never displayed". Buyers want to know an item has been checked for damage and the necessary parts replaced by the manufacturer in this mad world of bad qc before buying something that may be years past its release with parts long gone.

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Yup never displayed has never let me down so far. New isnt always sealed, and opened isn't always used. Truthfully, even if he handled it a bit I have no problem with that, but as I said the collar threads had been cut to be popped... There was some wear on some areas of the jacket, especially where the zipper would move up and down, it was almost grey instead of black, and those weren't noted even though it said inspected. It would have bugged me. I've even bought a 'displayed in museum pose in glass shelf' before as it saved me a lot of money, and that was in better condition than this never displayed one.

Well alls well that ends well as it was returned for a full refund. In the future I'll ask even more questions as I now know it can play out like this, tho again, out of many this is the only one. Most people are on the level. I appreciate all the input friends!