Cap is Dead Spoiler thread

Wow. Just read the issue online at my work's cyber cafe. That was quite good! I still don't know that I love how dark the artwork is but that story was very well told. I'm not too familiar with much in the Marvel U these days (I assume "Brock" was Eddie Brock? A good guy now? Bucky? Wha?) but they did a good job of getting old readers back in the fold.

Of course he'll be back but still that was a perfectly fitting death. Any hero with a Christ motif is good in my book. Of course he should go down shielding someone else. How symbolic of who he is. Someone that wasn't even on his side. No way should Cap have died in battle, he's too good to be outfought by anyone. I'm really quite impressed. They even recapped (no pun intended) his original Nazi fighting days with his original suit and shield. If this is going to be the highest selling Cap comic then the demand for the exclusive PF should dramatically increase.

But that's neither here nor there. Great read!

Holy crap these are selling for a lot on ebay. There's only on comic shop in my area, I'll have to check it out tomorrow to see if they're really sold out.

Khev said:

I'm not too familiar with much in the Marvel U these days (I assume "Brock" was Eddie Brock? A good guy now? Bucky? Wha?) but they did a good job of getting old readers back in the fold.

Click to expand...

I've been out of comics for a couple of years now but "Brock" is referring to Crossbones whose real name is Brock Rumlow. That I remember. Bucky being a "good guy now" has to do with the previous story arc of the "Winter Soldier". That much I know as well and am currently reading the e-copy version as we speak.

Thanks for the clarification. There were a lot of distractions here and when I read over that part I thought that Eddie Brock might be the new Bucky or something. You never know with Marvel.

Seriously...if you use the link for Cap 25 and go back through the index for the "Winter Soldier" storyarc the whole Bucky thing makes sense now....

Is there anywhere you can read the Civil War storyline online?

Some reason you needed to open another Cap thread? Shouldn't this be discussed in the other thread on the same topic?

Natrix said:

Some reason you needed to open another Cap thread?

Click to expand...

Yep. Its called a spoiler thread.

Shouldn't this be discussed in the other thread on the same topic?

Click to expand...

Nope. People can look at that one if they haven't read the issue yet. This is the spoiler thread.

OK, I love Cap, but a Sniper? Seems kind of obvious, why'd it take so long to do? Anyone could have sniped this dude! He can take a punch from the Hulk, but a sniper kills him? I agree, that dying in battle would've kind of sucked, he's to good! But still, I can't say what would've satisfied me, but I like that he died saving someone directly and not just "America" or "Humanity."

Well the sniper round didn't kill him per se, but it did set him up to be shot several times at point blank range by a mind-controlled Sharon. That's a little harder for a villain to orchestrate.

Khev said:

Yep. Its called a spoiler thread.


Nope. People can look at that one if they haven't read the issue yet. This is the spoiler thread.

Click to expand...

Yeah, the title Captain America Killed! isn't a spoiler or your Cap Is Dead Spoiler thread isn't a spoiler either.

It was a perfect death. The sniper didn't "get" Cap at all. He pegged Brock's presence long before the shot was fired. If he had been the target, he would have avoided the shot in any number of ways. But Brock manuevered him into taking the hit to save the guard. Which left Sharon open to take him out close-range.

I'm dying to find out how they got to her, though...

I'm really looking forward to the aftermath at this point. This Jeph Loeb 5-issue series "Fallen Son" (dealing with the five stages of the grieving process) sounds absolutely stellar. Can't wait to see Wolverine dealing with the "Denial" phase, and Spidey coping with the "Guilt." Iron Man is "Acceptance?" Excellent! And drawn by Cassiday, too!

I will probably get flamed for this but this is one death that I hope sticks. It was a very powerful and moving issue and opens up intriguing story lines (if Brubaker sticks around at least).

Natrix said:

I will probably get flamed for this...

Click to expand...

Not by me, you won't. I would love to see Steve Rogers sticking around, but, again, his death loses all meaning if I know he's gonna be back soon. What is this? "The Death of Superman" all over again? Hope not.

Oh, and I have to back up the new thread. "Cap is Dead" spoils nothing. It's been all over the news for 36 hours now. What this spoils is the hows, whys, and what nexts of the issue.

Monk said:

It was a perfect death. The sniper didn't "get" Cap at all. He pegged Brock's presence long before the shot was fired. If he had been the target, he would have avoided the shot in any number of ways.

Click to expand...

Good point, good point. You just get ready for something huge, and it's a gun. None the less, still a great issue.

Natrix said:

I will probably get flamed for this but this is one death that I hope sticks. It was a very powerful and moving issue and opens up intriguing story lines (if Brubaker sticks around at least).

Click to expand...

I agree, just because they ALWAYS come back! But I doubt it sticks. If they had to kill 1 major Marvel hero, I wish it was Wolverine (I don't wanna go through my reasons) but I do wish they'd stick to it.

Natrix said:

I will probably get flamed for this but this is one death that I hope sticks. It was a very powerful and moving issue and opens up intriguing story lines (if Brubaker sticks around at least).

Click to expand...

Sorry, but I don't think Captain America is really dead ... and I don't mean because its a comic book and he's the main character. If he had died on the street/steps in plain sight, maybe I would believe it. However, he died off camera in an ambulance.

Now, the next part may seem silly at first, but think it out people:

Look at page 22 - last panel. A shot of Sharon's hand holding Cap's hand. Look at the glove. It's a smooth glove with no pleating. Now, flash forward to the last page where we see Cap's supposed dead body laying covered on a gurney. Look at the last panel. The glove is textured with an obvious visible seam below the knuckles. They are different gloves.

Now, yes, the first thing someone is going to say is: it's a continuity mistake ... they happen all the time in movies and comic books. And yes, you are right ... they do. However, read back through the entire book. You only ever see Cap's gloved hands in the past. In every present day scene, he either has them behind his back or off panel. Since we see numerous full body shots of him .. well, doesn't this seem suspicious we would only see his hands in those 2 panels? Also, consider the two panels I just pointed out. There was no rational reason for having them there. Why did we need to see Sharon holding his hand on the steps? It wasn't crucial to the action being relayed at that time. And why did the book end with a close -up of his gloved hand? It too was unnecessary. The previous panel was a full shot of Cap's body - face and all - lying on the gurney. That would have made a much more powerful final panel - any artist would realize that. The final panel of the gloved hand just feels too contrived (I don't necessarily mean this in a bad way). It was put there for a purpose. When they get ready to do the "reveal", they can flashback to both of those shots. It's suppose to be the big "ohhhh" moment.

Now, I freely admit I may be wrong. Maybe the artist has a finger fetish But when you consider A.) Captain America WILL NOT stay dead with a movie in the works, B.) The glove panels served no obvious purpose, and C.) OJ's gloves didn't fit so they acq... never mind, just consider A.) and B.) :chew

Unless the follow up issues absolutely rule out this hypothesis, I believe Cap was switched out with a fake body. Now, it could have been Nick Fury ... or it could have been the Red Skull's group - Why did his female accomplish need to make Sharon remember right then at the hospital? The book pointed out that her part was vital to the overall "plan." Maybe to fill her so full of guilt she left Cap's "body" long enough for a switch out.

In the end, its important for us all to remember that no matter what, much like Frodo ......

CAP LIVES!

I know he isn't going to stay dead, that is why I said I wish it would stick.

Besides, technically Steve Rogers is dead not Captain America as someone will take up the shield.

Natrix said:

I know he isn't going to stay dead, that is why I said I wish it would stick.

Besides, technically Steve Rogers is dead not Captain America as someone will take up the shield.

Click to expand...

But it wouldn't be the same

I wouldn't be surprised to see Cap not dead. After all if they managed to set up a mind controlled person to take him out then its not far fetched that the ambulance crew is really there to abduct him. Maybe brain wash him and use him as an agent - or replace him with their own man. Maybe even cyber him up ala-Deathlok. I seem to remember that happening in a What If......