Asmus Toys: Merry and Pippin Lord of the Rings 1/6 Scale Figures

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Warpsmith

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Merry and Pippin.jpg Merry.jpg



Although today is our first glimpse of Merry and Pippin, these figures deserve their own thread!

First and foremost, a big thank you to Asmus Toys for providing us with this wonderful line of figures. The biggest challenge in recreating accurate 1/6 scale figure of these characters are the costume colors and details. As these figures are prototypes, now is the perfect time to provide Asmus with some constructive criticism in the hopes that they can achieve a happy medium in producing the best possible figures.

The first thing that stands out here are the bright colors, especially on the cloaks and the vests. Ngila Dickson (and the many people she collaborated with for creating the costumes for the Lord of the Rings) worked with a variety of muted colors. Pippin's cloak is a good example of the type of subdued colors we see. In addition, the material needs to be a thin woven wool that fits snug over the rest of the costumes. The shirts and vest have a fair amount of detail in them and can be reproduced by using the correct material, i.e. Pippin's scarf which needs to be an Afghan cross stitch design. PipScarf.jpg Similarly, Merry's vest is a more muted yellow, and has specifi detail that once again can be seen by using the correct materials such as brocade and damask.

Merry2.jpg

Finally, correct stitching of the material will be key so as to avoid making the figures look too much like standard doll costumes. Eventually is will be nice to see the correct buttons, button holes, and the metal claps that are important accessories.
 
I'm going to voice an unpopular opinion here. I think you're asking for a lot. We have to remember that we are dealing with 1/6th scale versions of little people. I'm sure finding correct material is a challenge for normal 1/6th scale stuff. It has to be much worse when the figures are shrunken down even further. I'm guessing a thin woven wool in this scale is going to be next to impossible to pull off. With that said I'm not saying we should just take any piece of crap they put out. The biggest problem I see right now is the purple cloak. If that was fixed I would buy these figures today, as is, if the price was right. That's just my opinion though and I'm sticking to it.
 
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Nice to see that they are coming. Not crazy about Merry's head sculpt. I think it's too wide, too old and too sour. I also think the hair is too short. Early in the film Merry and Pippin were more optimistic, innocent and reluctantly heroic. I'd prefer to see the sculpts capture that look. The more hardened, battle weary portraits would be fine for the armor looks in RotK. Hopefully these will come with two portraits -- smiling/innocent and serious. As for the costumes, yes the colors are too bright and the fabrics look too thick, but these are works in progress so imagine things will be tightened up. And some compromises will be made along the way. The good news is that the Asmus is clearly committed to this line and it shows.
 
As with any highly detailed figure, there exists a limit as to what is attainable when it comes down to being able to mass produce these figures. I don't remember if Asmus has stated previously what their production contracts call for, but on average we are often talking about a run of at least a 1000 pieces.

It is not unreasonable for Asmus to be able to use a number of basic fabrics available on today's market that will provide us with a reasonable facsimile of the costumes required, including ones that call for a specific pattern using a digital file. For a great example of what can be achieved while maintaining required cost limitations by the manufacturer, take a look at the wonderful figures that Big Chief Studios has been turning out. The fabric seaming, size proportions, colors, and details like buttons, pocket flaps etc. are spot on.

One of the things I love about Asmus is that I know they want to give us the best they can, and are willing to listen to our "suggestions."

On a side note, I am interested to hear from Asmus what the final production will be like regarding the body types as we see here that the prototypes have no visible ankle joints...if we are getting hidden joints that would be fantastic.
 
Yeah, Merry and Pippin were not bad asses. They need to look a bit lost -- and a more innocent, wide-eyed expression would indicate that.

They should come with the spoils they found after taking Saruman's tower AND a nice big dragon firework.



on average we are often talking about a run of at least a 1000 pieces.

Actually they've done a couple figures with edition sizes as small as 500 pieces (Guritz and Eowyn). Up until now they've been very forthcoming with their edition sizes, and I've been keeping track.
 
Nice to see that they are coming. Not crazy about Merry's head sculpt. I think it's too wide, too old and too sour. I also think the hair is too short. Early in the film Merry and Pippin were more optimistic, innocent and reluctantly heroic. I'd prefer to see the sculpts capture that look. The more hardened, battle weary portraits would be fine for the armor looks in RotK. Hopefully these will come with two portraits -- smiling/innocent and serious. As for the costumes, yes the colors are too bright and the fabrics look too thick, but these are works in progress so imagine things will be tightened up. And some compromises will be made along the way. The good news is that the Asmus is clearly committed to this line and it shows.

I was thinking much the same. The overall facial sculpts need to be closer to the actors. The many facial expressions of these characters throughout the Fellowship is quite optimistic, wide eyed, and impressionable. Also their hair lengths, Merry's in particular, could be a smidge longer all around.
 
Actually they've done a couple figures with edition sizes as small as 500 pieces (Guritz and Eowyn). Up until now they've been very forthcoming with their edition sizes, and I've been keeping track.

This is good to know. In today's market, larger size runs are sometime asked for which plays a big part in what gets produced.
 
Since we're expressing unpopular opinions, I'd prefer to have fixed ankles than jointed ones that look as jarring as Sideshow's.
 
Merry looks like he's about to punch someone in the face.
 
I mean...how would you guys feel about something like a simple double ball peg joint with low clearance? When done right the seams are pretty dang minimal. I think that would be a fair choice. I'm going to probably get flack for this, but you see it successfully done on a lot of 1/12 scale figure wrists. NECA's Illidian from Heroes of the Storm has a really good example of the design I have in mind, as the wrist goes into the hand, and the hand sculpt extends over it to hide the gap. I think something akin to that would be completely reasonable here.
 
Super excited for these two!
My main three thoughts have already been stated. Fabrics too bright, clothing too baggy (especially on Merry. Don't want a repeat of the SSC Frodo and Sam) and head sculpts could be more accurate, portraying the actors likeness/innocence. Don't take that in a negative manner, I'm just getting straight to the point for constructive criticism sake.
I'm definitely liking what I'm seeing so far in these WIP!
Thank you Asmus for finally making two of my favourite characters :)
 
Another issue we have yet to discuss (in this thread) is making sure the hobbits are the correct size. The prototypes are definitely too big going by how they look positioned behind Thranduil.

Meriadoc and Pereggrin.jpg

Here is a decent guide to go by. Like all animals, size varies from hobbit to hobbit, and we do know there is a bit of a size transformation later in the story, but overall Hobbits are pretty small compared to humans and most other creatures in Middle Earth, and the film does a good job of conveying it. Middle Earth Size Comparison.jpg

The Fellowship..jpg
 
I'm going to voice an unpopular opinion here. I think you're asking for a lot. We have to remember that we are dealing with 1/6th scale versions of little people. I'm sure finding correct material is a challenge for normal 1/6th scale stuff. It has to be much worse when the figures are shrunken down even further. I'm guessing a thin woven wool in this scale is going to be next to impossible to pull off. With that said I'm not saying we should just take any piece of crap they put out. The biggest problem I see right now is the purple cloak. If that was fixed I would buy these figures today, as is, if the price was right. That's just my opinion though and I'm sticking to it.
I absolutely agree. Asmus is definitely moving up in the industry, but I am sure they are still small enough that they are trying to use stuff that is readily available. Spending extra money on special buttons or fabric really adds up quick. Some things may be impossible like the woven wool you mentioned. There are tailors out there who do amazing work at the 1/6 scale. I have some great customs that look like the real thing, but they cost big bucks. I'm not saying that Asmus can't do a great job here, but we need to cut them a little slack. They don't have the luxury of Hollywood trickery. The studio got to use regular size people and made them 'look' smaller. Asmus actually has to make them smaller. Don't complain about price when it comes time to order if you want everything just perfect.
 
I absolutely agree. Asmus is definitely moving up in the industry, but I am sure they are still small enough that they are trying to use stuff that is readily available. Spending extra money on special buttons or fabric really adds up quick. Some things may be impossible like the woven wool you mentioned. There are tailors out there who do amazing work at the 1/6 scale. I have some great customs that look like the real thing, but they cost big bucks. I'm not saying that Asmus can't do a great job here, but we need to cut them a little slack. They don't have the luxury of Hollywood trickery. The studio got to use regular size people and made them 'look' smaller. Asmus actually has to make them smaller. Don't complain about price when it comes time to order if you want everything just perfect.

There's definitely a line for any company between what can and can't be done, mostly all driven by cost. I would never expect Asmus to be able to use some of the higher end fabric materials, especially as they are the materials that a costume designer would use on a film set. Also you have to decide what you can get away with producing cost effectively that looks reasonably acceptable to the consumer.

At the very least, even a smaller company can produce 1/6 clothing that is sized correctly with quality seams, stitching, and a variety of basic add-ons such as comparable buttons and designs in the material; Asmus has already shown they can do this with figures like Saruman and Gandalf. Also remember that if you have someone produce a one off custom, or even a small handful of custom design work, the cost is very expensive when you are only making that small number due to the set-up cost. From my own experience working with custom fabrics, the price drops way down as the quantity increases.

My goal is to always point out things that may or may not be doable, bring them to the attention of the manufacturer, and hope that at least some of the suggestions are reasonable and can be achieved. Asmus has pointed out they like hearing all our suggestions, and want to do the best they can. I will happily pay a bit more for a great product. At the same time, if the item is way below standard, it may not sell very well either.
 
There's definitely a line for any company between what can and can't be done, mostly all driven by cost. I would never expect Asmus to be able to use some of the higher end fabric materials, especially as they are the materials that a costume designer would use on a film set. Also you have to decide what you can get away with producing cost effectively that looks reasonably acceptable to the consumer.

At the very least, even a smaller company can produce 1/6 clothing that is sized correctly with quality seams, stitching, and a variety of basic add-ons such as comparable buttons and designs in the material; Asmus has already shown they can do this with figures like Saruman and Gandalf. Also remember that if you have someone produce a one off custom, or even a small handful of custom design work, the cost is very expensive when you are only making that small number due to the set-up cost. From my own experience working with custom fabrics, the price drops way down as the quantity increases.

My goal is to always point out things that may or may not be doable, bring them to the attention of the manufacturer, and hope that at least some of the suggestions are reasonable and can be achieved. Asmus has pointed out they like hearing all our suggestions, and want to do the best they can. I will happily pay a bit more for a great product. At the same time, if the item is way below standard, it may not sell very well either.

Everything you say is absolutely true. My point isn't so much with cost, but with actually making the clothing look and hang like people want. I don't want to hear people saying "It looks too bulky" or "It's too stiff" beyond what is reasonable. Think of a shirt for a four year old and a duplicate shirt for an adult. The shirt for the child is just going to look stiffer and hang differently than it does on an adult. As I said before, the studio didn't have to make smaller size clothing, except for the stunt doubles, they just shrank the actors wearing their adult clothing. Now that I've mentioned that, there is a slight difference between the way the clothing looks on the stunt doubles and the way it looks on the taller actors. The hobbits will be 1/6 figures, but since they have human size body proportions, they end up realistically being much smaller than 1/6 scale. They may end up looking very doll-like, quality stitching and seams or not.

I'm not going to give Asmus a pass here. Your last paragraph is very well stated. People should make suggestions and hope for the best, but also be reasonable.
 
I think Merry and Pippin look really good. They're not perfect, but I think they're off to a great start on them. We've seen Asmus change their sculpt based on feedback in the past, but for seeing them for the first time, they look a lot better than others have.
 
Everything you say is absolutely true. My point isn't so much with cost, but with actually making the clothing look and hang like people want. I don't want to hear people saying "It looks too bulky" or "It's too stiff" beyond what is reasonable. Think of a shirt for a four year old and a duplicate shirt for an adult. The shirt for the child is just going to look stiffer and hang differently than it does on an adult. As I said before, the studio didn't have to make smaller size clothing, except for the stunt doubles, they just shrank the actors wearing their adult clothing. Now that I've mentioned that, there is a slight difference between the way the clothing looks on the stunt doubles and the way it looks on the taller actors. The hobbits will be 1/6 figures, but since they have human size body proportions, they end up realistically being much smaller than 1/6 scale. They may end up looking very doll-like, quality stitching and seams or not.

Regarding the clothing design for the Lord of the Rings film trilogy, Ngila Dickson has stated that they had to sew an enormous amount of smaller size clothing for each Hobbit. Dozens of different costumes were made (of the same design) for each of the actors portraying the Hobbits that created the size illusion. In other words, they made close to a dozen (of the exact same costume) sized for Elijah Wood, a dozen more for his stunt double, a dozen more for the small person portraying the corrected sized version of Frodo, and a dozen more for the small person stunt double. This is why there were close to twenty thousand costumes produced for these films. Any difference in the way clothing appeared in the film was the result of everyone having their own costumes (four different actors representing the same character from shot to shot). In addition, none of the actors playing hobbits were shrunk down for any of the scenes. Instead, a technique referred to as forced perspective used multiple cameras moving at the same time, combined with sets that used reduced sized props.

As this pertains to the 1/6 scale figures, once the final body sizes for the hobbits is decided upon, the clothing for this relatively large scale can be produced. There are plenty of smaller scale figures that have bee produced in the past that have well proportioned properly fitting clothing.
 
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